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Ansteorra ILoI dated 2019-02-05

Greetings to the Ansteorran College of Heralds. I apologize for the delay in the publication of this letter, it was due to the transition of the Asterisk office.

The following have been submitted for consideration this month.

1: Alisone McCay -New Device Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2006, via Ansteorra.

Azure, three seadragons argent and on a chevron Or three compass roses sable

Old Item: Azure, three natural dolphins naiant in annulo argent within an orle of plates., to be released.

Submitted through Gate's Edge.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-05 17:29:16
We've only used the non-hyphenated spellimg three times; let's go with 'sea-dragon' instead. We should also put the primary charge first:

Azure, on a chevron Or between three sea-dragons argent three compass roses sable.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:14:29
No conflicts found.

Someone may comment (correctly) that "while the rays of a compass rose may overlap the outer ring, they should not extend beyond it, with the exception of the northmark" [Aelis de la Rose, A-An Tir, May 2015], this is likely no more than an artist's note and doesn't need the art here to be redrawn.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-02-08 14:41:41
Would it be a permissible kindness to the submitter to counsel redrawing so as to avoid such an artist's note in her permanent file?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:06:21
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon.

2: Alisone McCay -New Badge Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2006, via Ansteorra.

(Fieldless) On a compass rose sable a seadragon argent.

Old Item: (Fieldless) In fess a rose branch slipped and leaved and a natural dolphin conjoined in annulo argent., to be released.

Submitted through Gate's Edge.

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-05 17:31:29
With the wings hanging off the edge of the primary like this we can't use 'on'. The se-dragon is an overall charge.

And as an overall charge, it's barely overall.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:18:33

Also repeat my comment from above about how the rays of the compass rose shouldn't extend beyond the outer ring; if identifiability was a concern here, the compass rose could have easily been drawn as in period, with 16 or more rays. Regardless, the tips of the wings should not extend beyond the underlying charge like this; this is not registerable as drawn for being "barely overall".

Raven Morgenstern (Three Oaks) at 2019-02-17 10:19:01
As drawn I agree that this would be barely overall. Also housemate/herald trainee looks at picture from across the room and asked who was going for the mockingjay pin? Looking at this from any distance I too see that.

Alisone McCay (Star) at 2019-02-19 14:03:20
If the wings of the seadragon were within the compass rose would that correct the issue with overall? Are there other issues as well or is that really the only one?

Elena Wyth at 2019-02-19 14:11:03
Since this needs to be redrawn, it would also be good to draw it so the East, South, and West compass points terminated at the outer ring, instead of extending past it. the North mark can stay extended.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:07:01
No conflicts found. Agree that the sea-dragon is not on the compass rose, but surmounting it.

3: Alisone McCay -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2006, via Ansteorra.

Per pale azure and vert a sea stag argent.

Submitted through Gate's Edge.

Badge Comments:

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:22:33
No conflicts found.

We put a comma after the field and hyphenate sea-critters, so: Per pale azure and vert, a sea-stag argent.

Alisone McCay (Star) at 2019-02-09 09:47:30
This is a joint badge between myself and Corbin de Huntyngfeld

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:07:19
No conflicts found.

4: Antonia de la Fuente -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2011, via Ansteorra.

Vert an owl displayed and in chief three hop cones Or.

Submitted through Namron.

Asterisk note: I have requested a new scan of the forms due to errors on the original scans and will repost the color thumbnail once I get them.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-05 17:37:36
Hops default to stems to chief, so these are inverted:

Vert, an owl displayed and in chief three hop cones inverted Or.

SFPP for the non-eagle displayed.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:26:34
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:08:29
No conflicts found. Look forward to seeing the corrected scans.

5: Corbin de Huntyngfeld -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 2016, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) On a wolf's pawprint an escarbuncle gules.

Submitted through Gate's Edge.

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-05 17:43:15
Missing a tincture:

(Fieldless) On a wolf's pawprint argent an escarbuncle gules.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:28:57
Seems logical, doesn't it?

We don't typically list what animal made the paw print, so just: (Fieldless) On a paw print argent an escarbuncle gules.

No conflicts found.

Eirik Halfdanarson (Asterisk) at 2019-02-07 21:26:27
Actually, because I wasn't sure of the paw print having been registered on a fieldless background, I looked and there are many registrations of bear and wolf paw prints registered, four of which were registered in 2018.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-02-08 14:45:38
Our Sovereigns have been quite inconsistent on this point. One can point to many instances where the species has been deleted, but this is by no means universal.

Adelaide de Beaumont (Pympernell) at 2019-02-18 12:12:08
That would have been my question. Technically, since a paw print is a number of separate blobs floating unconnected in space, they should under no circumstance be a valid charge for a fieldless badge. Sigh.

Dietrich von Sachsen (Green Mantle Herald) at 2019-02-26 12:38:37
Ordinarily you'd be right; however, despite being visually disconnected, the paw print is considered a single charge, similiar to ermine spots. Thus based on that example we allow them on fieldless.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:09:18
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon correction.

6: Fâelân Ballantine -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Irish) most important.
Culture (Irish) most important.
Spelling (Faelan) most important.

Submitted through Gate'se Edge.

Fâelân is found in Ó Corrain, Donnchadh & Maguire, Fidelma. Irish Names 2nd edition p. 92.

Ballantine is found in "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB8N-TY8 : 11 February 2018, Robert Ballantine in entry for Peter Ballantine, 11 Jun 1619) in batch C10747-1 dated in 1619.

Asterisk note: Original documentation was from MacLysaght, Edward. The Surnames of Ireland. on p.11. Since this is from Appendix F of the College of Arms Administrative Handbook (Names Sources to Be Avoided in Documentation), I was able to find the documentation above and substituted it.

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-02-06 04:13:10
So Irish Gaelic and English are compatible, but can only have 300 years between name elements, meaning the submitter needs to find "Fâelân" after 1319.

There's a couple of reasons that is going to be difficult. The first is that Index of Names in Irish Annals: Fáelán / Faolán by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) notes the name is spelled Fáelán (with an a-acute instead of a-circumflex).

The second issue is that Mari's website says that the Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) nominative form of the name is Faolán.

Finally, there is the issue that the submitter apparently desires a feminine name, but has chosen a masculine name.

Faolán Ballantine would be a mixed-Irish-English masculine name constructed within the rules, though.

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2019-02-15 20:17:38
The submitter is changing the first name to Jocelyn and is using the name allowance. Information has been submitted to update the paperwork.

Elena Wyth at 2019-02-19 14:12:22
if this is the case, than this item needs to be formally withdrawn, and the new name can be considered on a future ILOI.

Adelaide de Beaumont (Pympernell) at 2019-02-18 12:36:15
We seem to have a number a of girl Faelans, for whatever reason. This spelling of Ballantine is English modern; if she wants Scottish, Black, s.n. Ballantine has Bellanetyn in 1493 and Ballindin in 1563.

If she has moved on to Jocelyn, so be it, BUT remember that not only is Mari's article not holy writ (being normalized forms) but it's entirely Irish. Scottish Gaelic orthography, what little we have of it, is very conservative, and doesn't seem to be up on all the newfangled Irish spellings. Thanks to the lovely people who transcribed the 1467 Manuscript, we have a bunch of Scottish Gaelic spellings, including someone recorded as mhic gillafaelain, showing they were not using Fao- as the Irish were by that point. This is consistent across the manuscript, where we see, for example, Aed rather than Aodh (there is a single Aoda). These are geneaologies, so they don't necessarily show the name in current usage, but it does show what would have been a current spelling. I believe the spelling Faelan (or Fáelán) is actually reasonable for later-period Scotland. The Ballantines being Scoto-Norman (family names include John, David, and Alexander), Jocelyn is a better match. Jocelyn is ALSO a masculine name, though that looks to be what she's after.

Alisone McCay (Star) at 2019-02-19 14:08:06
The submitter is actually going for feminine and so forth is trying to get that for the first name. Are there better options for the spelling of the originally requested first name or her modern first name to make it more feminine?

Alisone McCay (Star) at 2019-02-25 22:18:22
Submitter has decided to withdraw this submission for now to decide and research further on what she wants for a name.

7: Miles Ridley -New Household Name & New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Domus Ursi Minoris

Sable, between four mullets of eight points in saltire a bear rampant maintaining a sword argent

Meaning (House Little Bear (Ursa Minor)) most important.

Name will be on the Jan. 31 LoI

Submitted through Barony of Bjornsborg

Domus Ursi Minoris

The proposed household name is based on the Latinization of the name House Little Bear.

Domus: Domus meaning house (esp. in town). Domus is accepted as a household designator in the 02-2011 LOAR for "Domus Pugni Argentei."

Ursi has been used as an English sign name in the 15th century as evidenced here


Minoris being the Latin word for Little or Small found here

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=minoris&la=la&can=minoris0&prior=quanti&d=Pereus:text:19 99.04.0063:entry=emptio-venditio-cn&i=1

There is evidence here of there being an inn called The Little Eagle, which would support the idea of there being a house of The Little Bear


The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2157/2019-01-27/11-36-23_Domus_Ursi_Minoris_Household_Name_doc_1.jpeg

Household Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-02-06 04:31:38
The Dictionary of Inn-Sign Names in Medieval and Renaissance England by Juliana de Luna does have examples of "big" and "little" inns:

p. 15 sn. Bell
the Great Belle, 1494
the Little bell, 1638

p. 66 sn. Purse
vico qui vocatur... Smalpors, 1332

p. 69 sn. Rose
the Littell Roose, 1602

and for the opposite, p. 47 sn. Head (Human)
Great Turk or Great Turks Head, 1600-2.

p. 56, however, notes sn. Little, that the descriptor "it is found with inanimate objects only." But I have no idea if there's a precedent about the use of "great" or "little" either way.

Juliana's article also has examples of inn names that are entirely Latinised (unlike the example of Smalpors):
p. 66 sn. Ram
inter hospium Arietis, 1488
p. 56 sn. Lion
hospicium albe leonis, 1512
p. 43 sn. Hart
Innyng ad signum albi Cerui, 1492

If that's enough to justify an English "The Little House at/called the Bear," and hence a plausible Latin form would be "Domus Ursi Minoris," I have no idea.

Brian O'hUilliam (Bordure) at 2019-02-07 15:57:48
I saw that in Dame Julianna's article as well, but have also found House of the Little Swan in a 15th century France in another article from her. maison du Petit Signe (little swan) http://medievalscotland.org/jes/ParisInnHouseNames/ Apparently the sized inanimate object only names rule did not travel across the channel.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-02-10 01:42:10
Nice find Brian Bordure!

Hopefully someone can find another two examples to show there's a pattern in French! :)

Brian O'hUilliam (Bordure) at 2019-02-07 16:43:56
Deleting duplicate comment.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2019-02-11 20:26:38
The statement "This letter was written in Latin" does not tell us how good the Latin was, nor the part of speech. If it was, as is clearly assumed, in the genitive, that gives "ursus" as the nominative, which means "male bear". "Female bear" is "ursa" with the genitive "ursae". "Ursa Minor" ("Ursae Minoris") is a constellation, aka "The Little Dipper", and it contains Polaris, the (north) Pole star.

Thus, this name comes close to claiming to be the House of the Contellation called "The Little Bear". Too close for my peace of mind at any rate.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-02-16 17:57:21
I don't think that is how "house" is used in astrology--but that "house" IS used in astrology tends to reinforce the starry allusion.

However, that does not make me uneasy. I could easily believe in an Inn of Charles's Wain, even if we don't have the examples to make it registerable.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2019-03-07 19:05:08
I hadn't considered the astrological use of "house". I'm simply not comfortable with the overall idea of a house/group of people owned by a constellation.

Adelaide de Beaumont (Pympernell) at 2019-02-18 13:37:14
Many are the issues. Juliana is clear that "little" applies to the size of the tavern, not the sign, and the submitter clearly intends to be house of the bear cubs (they call themselves Bjornlings). One thing at a time:

House of the Bear <modified> is good. From The Inns of Greece & Rome, and a history of Hospitality from the Dawn of Time to the Middle Ages, by W. C. Firebaugh, with an Introduction by Wallace Rice and Illustrations by Norman Lindsay, Chicago: Pascal Covici; 1928; pp. 157-171, includes the following:

"Not a few of the quarters of the great city took their names from inns or taverns. The quarter known as the Vicus Ursi Pileati (The Quarter of the Bear of the Skull Cap), for example, which, according to Sextus Rufus, was found in the Esquiline, and which must have taken its name from the sign of some inn or from some street performance with a trick animal. The cap carried with it the implication of freedom, and the curious antiquarian may easily suppose 158 that the original owner of such a tavern may have been known by the name of Ursus (Bear), and that he was probably a freedman."

Bjornsborg still I think has its bear in cap-and-bells badge, so they are missing a golden opportunity not to go with that, but there you are. Domus Ursi X is fine.

However, it has not been established that Minoris is the appropriate X. The constellations are major and minor in relation to one another, as James the Great and James the Less, etc. That is not how we talk about baby animals. If (as is clear) the intent is for "little bear" to = bear cub, minoris is not the correct word. There was a medieval notion that bear cubs were born as lumps, and their mother licked them into shape, so most of the early treatises use words like "fetus" which I'm sure would not appeal to the household members. But I do find some later writings with ursus parvus for 'bear cub' (literally 'young bear'), and I think Domus Ursi Parvi is okay based on the example of Vicus Ursi Pileati. That of course eliminates the double-entendre with the constellation, but then it didn't really exist, the constellation terminology already having been wrangled from Greek, not to mention the constellations being specifically she-bears, which is not evidently what submitter is going for.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2019-03-07 19:42:43
Actually, Lewis & Short show bear cub uses "catulus". See:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aalphabetic+letter%3DC%3 Aentry+group%3D25%3Aentry%3Dcatulus1

Note the part that says:

"of a bear," Ov. M. 13, 836; 15, 379;
Thus I think Domus Ursī Catulī might be the best translation/form.

Whether Minoris, Parvī, or Catulī, I didn't find any conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:11:49
The documentation from ffride and from the client appears to support the household name, though it could mean either "house of the little bear" or "little house of the bear", if I correctly recall my high-school Latin

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-05 17:45:33
Switching up the order of a few bits of the blazon:

Sable, a bear rampant maintaining a sword between in saltire four mullets of eight points argent.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2019-02-07 20:46:44
No conflicts found.

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2019-02-15 20:19:30
Without a registered or submitted name, how are we going to tie this back to the submitter?

Iago ab Adam at 2019-02-15 20:22:16
The name *is* in submission. It says above it's on the Ansteorra January LoI.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-02-27 11:12:23
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon correction.

Thanks to Villana for her assistance with this letter.

In Service,

Eirik Halfdanarson

OSCAR counts 1 Name, 1 Household Name, 1 Device, 1 Device Change, 3 Badges and 1 Badge Change. There are a total of 8 items submitted on this letter.