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Ansteorra Kingdom ILoI dated 2018-12-02

Happy and safe holidays to each of you

1: Brigiða Stjarna -New Name & New Device

Per saltire sable and Or, a comet argent issuant from base pithing a bordure azure mullety Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.

;view=1up;seq=7Brigiða - Viking Answer Lady, who references Geirr Bassi, pp8

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml

Stjarna - Viking Bynames found in Landnámabók

http://www.elippsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html

Also found in Norsk-isländska personbinamn frán medeltiden, samiade och...Lind, E.H. (Erik Henrik)

Spelled as Stiarna, but it seems to be a later spelling of the word

https://babel.hathitrust.org/pt?id=uc1. $ b498098;view=1up;swq=7

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-03 17:09:47
Fixed link for "stjarna" - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html

The name is a nickname and begins with a lowercase s. The name should be "Brigiða stjarna."

With those notes, docs for Brigiða and stjarna check out. More on the "Stiarna" docs below.

Both names are from Geir Bassi, so documentation could be simplified if I have my copy of GB in front of me.

Regarding the link for Stiarna, fixed link: Stiarna- https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1. $ b468098;view=1up;seq=195 (column 361) OSCAR doesn't want to play nice with the link. Take out the spaces are around " $ " in the URL & the URL should work.

However, I do not believe that entry justifies the use of "Stiarna" as a standalone byname. All but one example has "stiarna" (or some variant) combined with other name elements. The one exception lists sti(ae)rna as possibly the last name last for two people, likely, siblings.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 17:01:06
So it would come out to just Brigiða stjarna?

I only added the other spelling as it was a suggestion from someone else from the SCA Heraldry Chat group.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 18:26:07
Likely yes; however, there have been instances of Laurel registering Stjarna, so they may just let the capitalization slide. The other question is whether the submitter wants "Brigiða" or "Brigida" as they are not the same. Well, they are technically the same name, but years apart and pronounced differently.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-12-16 05:46:51
The April 2012 LoAR cover letter notes:
https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/04/12-04cl.html
"Based on the data found by commenters, we can say that capitalization in period Latin alphabet documents was uneven, with some capitalizing no elements and others capitalizing only given names and bynames derived from given names. Modern transliterations vary as well. Scholarly ones tend to use the convention of capitalizing given names but leaving descriptive bynames in lowercase. Less formal ones vary, with some rendering all name elements in uppercase, with only in(n) "the", son and dottir in lowercase.

Given this evidence, we are removing the requirement that descriptive bynames in Old Norse be registered only in lowercase. Descriptive bynames will be registered either in uppercase or in lowercase."

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-12-05 17:50:35
E.H. Lind. Norsk-Isländska Dopnamn ock Fingerade Namn från Medeltiden (Uppsala: AQ.-B.Lundequistska Bokhandeln. 1849-1931. https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009007424) s.n. <Brigit> col. 167-168 has the daughter of Haraldr gilli (1100s) written as <Brigid>, <Brigida>, and <Brigiða>. In 1397 there's a <Brigida Bodvarsd.> Elsewhere the spellings are in <Brigit>, <Birgit> and variations. S.n. <Brigitta> cols. 168-169 has <Brigiða d. Úlfs stallara> †1066. Other instances show up in the 14th c. and later in some form of <Brigitta>.

E.H. Lind. Norsk-Isländska Personbinamn från Medeltiden. Uppsala: A.-B. Lundequistska Bokhandeln. 1920. (https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009007427) s.n. <stiarna> col. 361 names three people with this byname: a man, Bjarni, in the legal code Norges Gamle Love c.1270 (no explanation is given for his byname). There are also two women, Guðny in Biskupa sögur, 1200s; and Hildr in Landnámabók in the late 800s. The womens' bynames are probably related to the group of Old Norse bynames for women that describe them as the sun or light of a place, much in the same way an Irish lass is called "Star of the County Down" in the song of that title.

So, the name, <Brigiða stjarna> is correctly formed and a decent name for 11th c. Norway or Iceland.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 19:46:23
I think she's wanting an earlier name, so I think the spelling with the ð is preferred.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-12-03 15:34:47
Is 'pithing' meant to be 'within'? Either way, it can be removed:

Per saltire sable and Or, a comet argent issuant from base, a bordure azure mullety Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-04 16:58:17
I'm guessing somebody wrote a wynn rune, ƿ, capitalized Ƿ, ƿithout thinking. (Se non è vero è ben trovato!)

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-05 15:04:06
oddly, "pithing" is on the original forms - but I have no idea where the term was picked up.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 15:57:57
Someone mentioned it in the SCA Heraldry Chat on FB, so I assumed that it was a term that indicated that the bordure was on top of the issuant comet.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 18:29:08
I wonder if a typo has created a new term! I googled it & pithing in a way of slaughtering animals by severing the spine. If the comet was on top of or piercing the bordure, maybe....

Except that's not an actual thing, so don't try. :-P

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 19:46:48
Fair enough!

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 14:56:36
I found no conflicts. Agree with Iago's reblazon.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:17:13
Agree.


2: Edward de Lacy -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Edward Tallis(10/2009)

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No changes.

Period: second half of 13th century

Edward - (Longshanks) Plantagenet 1239-1307, King of England

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/619032:3:9M2T-XW2 File number 36PM-02P

de Lacy - (John) b about 1192 in Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England. AKA John, 7th Baron de lacie LBYD-CFH

Both names from FamilySearch.org, no copy requires source according to Handbook. Also see ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 2611

http://www.s-gabriel.org/2611, a no copy required source according to Handbook, cited on OSCAR for most recent registration of "de Lacy"

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 13:05:16
Given Family Search documentation is "Find a Grave" and not from acceptable batch numbers, I believe.

Let's try this:

Brass Enscription Index by Julian Goodwyn (mka Janell K. Lovelace) http://heraldry.sca.org/names/brasses/

Edward- 31 instances of Edward beginning in 1370. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/brasses/men.html

de Lacy - 1 instance in 1375. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/brasses/lastnameAH.html

This documentation is later period than the submitter listed as desired time period, but it certainly works.

I didn't see any conflicts in a cursory search.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:17:37
Docs check out.

Christian Jorgensen af Hilsonger at 2019-01-08 00:37:54
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The submitter has requested NO CHANGES as such we are bound to return this submission to him. We legally can not change his documentation.Everyone wants to see a submitter succeed but the NO CHANGES request ties our hand and forces a return

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2019-01-08 08:49:21
I have never seen "no changes" applied to documentation, only to the name elements. I do not believe your interpretation is the correct one, and as long as we can find documentation to justify the naming elements they require, we are fine.

And in the event we could not document those naming elements, being able to go to the submitter with the commentary on what would pass is invaluable.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2019-01-08 10:12:31
I have always understood "no changes" to mean no changes to the name as submitted and having nothing to do with the documentation. The submission forms lead me to believe that as well: http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/forms/NAMEI.pdf

The fact that the submitter wants "second half of 13th century" and the documentation I provided above (as well as the Saint Gabriel report provided by the client) is second half of the 14th century IS problematic and needs approval from the submitter.

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2019-01-09 09:51:35
If the submitter wants second half of the 13th century for the name the DNMES has it - http://dmnes.org/cite/Edwardi/1279%E2%80%9380/WaHR-SK

Edwardi m. (gen) ● Latin. Warwick, England . 1279-80. WaHR-SK

And since this is in the genitive, the nominative would be Edward.


3: Elisaveta af Isafjord -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(Fieldless) A walrus couchant proper

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-12-03 15:41:48
The last walrus was registered in 2005, and only 3 times.

SENA A2A states: "Items which have not been registered in over a decade, have only been registered a few times, or have recent registrations only via the existing registration allowance may need to be documented."

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-04 17:59:01
Which takes a little doing. The earliest OED citation for "walrus" is from 1655. However, there's no reason not to reblazon

(Fieldless) A morse couchant proper

and cite from the OED's morse, n.2, defined as "A walrus. Now rare",

1482 Caxton Chron. Eng. cclvii. 336 This yere were take iiij grete fisshes bytwene Eerethe and london, that one was callyd mors marine [etc.].
The Old English is "horschwæl", like the German "rosswal", sometimes interpreted as 'horse-whale', reversing to "wal-russ"; but the etymology there is obscure. And "russwale" is 'walrus hide'. So the creature is known early enough.

For images we have one clawed, tusked, and finned from Conrad Gessner's Historia Animalium (1558), first image below from https://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2014/07/the-walrus-as-you-never-knew-him.html. We have a long-tailed couchant version in Jan Huyghen van Linschoten's book dated 1605, second image below from http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2010/09/patagonian-walrus.html. There is also Albrecht Dürer's 1521 head, third image from https://publicdomainreview.org/2017/06/14/decoding-the-morse-the-history-of-16th-century-narcoleptic -walruses/. About equally untrue to zoology is Olaus Magnus's Historia de Gentibus Septentrionalibus (1555), fourth image below from the first source linked in this paragraph.

Whether it is necessary to insist submitter conform her emblazon to our period's imperfect zoological knowledge (paralleling our heraldic whale-fishes) is surely a question for Wreath--especially if we blazon

(Fieldless) A natural morse couchant proper

or even ... a natural walrus proper. It is nevertheless appropriate to ask: How should we advise Wreath?

It might also be worthwhile to discover whether submitter might actually prefer a bolder walrus based on these images.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3 4: Image 4

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-12-03 22:28:37
Elisaveta af Isefjord was registered in October 2001

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:18:28
Elisaveta af Isefjord was registered 10/01 via Ansteorra. The Glossary of Terms shows no default tincture for seals or walruses. The pictures I see on line show them as grey to reddish brown. The one we see here should be blazoned as argent. Would this conflict with the badge of Aileen Fitzwilliam, reg. 8/93 via the Middle: "(Fieldless) A seal sejant argent"?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-18 15:22:43
We don't need to have an entry for charge in the Glossary if the basic meaning "of the natural color" (Parker, https://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglossp.htm#Proper) is applicable. But since that isn't the case here, yes, I was unforgivably blind to tincture above and we need either

(Fieldless) A morse couchant argent
or
(Fieldless) A walrus couchant argent

As for the potential conflict. http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixL shows sejant and couchant in different groups whereas http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5E5a has them in the same group, so they get a DC under the latter rule though not an SC. There is a second DC for both being fieldless, so the two do not conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-18 15:29:32
The following discussion is tangential, having no bearing on the registerability of the submission unless a different conflict is proposed, but may nevertheless be of interest.

The precedents are against a 3rd DC for type.

Consider first https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/01/10-01lar.html s.n. Lorelei Solas: "There is no difference between this depiction of a manatee and a walrus." With that, consider https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1986/08/lar.html s.n. Eldrydd Rhuddlan: "A manatee is a sirenian, or sea cow, a large aquatic mammal. For purposes of conflict, it looks like a seal."

Later analyses support by omission the position that seals and manatees conflict. E,g., https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/02/17-02lar.html#154, Hugh de Calais, comparing his proposed badge Gules, a manatee naiant argent against the registered and reblazoned Gules, a seal embowed tail over its head and a bordure engrailed argent: "There is a DC for the removal of the bordure and another DC for the change of posture of the marine mammal." And https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/04/18-04lar.html#134, Silus Aurelius, considering Gules, a seal sejant argent and a chief invected Or against Hugh's badge blazoned above: "There is one DC for the addition of the chief and another for posture."

Although conflict is not commutative--it is not true that because A conflicts with B and B conflicts with C, A must necessarily conflict with C--this history certainly suggests that A does conflict with C this time: i.e., walruses, manatees, and seals all conflict with each other.

I would think the walrus's prominent tusks should prompt our Sovereigns to rethink this, but comparison of the present submission to Aileen's badge cannot be a vehicle for that argument.


4: Emma O'Ruairc -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Per bend sinister azure and vert, a bend sinister Or between two butterflies argent

Device Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 12:39:16
Several close calls, but I didn't find any conflicts, but insects can be troublesome. Would appreciate a second set of eyes.

I am concerned about the width of the bend sinister and would like to see it "bulked up." I don't know if it's enough for return, though.

I am also concerned with the black detailing on the butterfly. Given some recent returns, I fear the detailing will be considered fimbriating and would be returned. My thought: better safe than sorry.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-05 18:02:24
Because the butterfly depicted is a monarch, it's best to identify it in the blazon. That will keep the black markings intact.

Per bend sinister azure and vert, a bend sinister Or between two monarch butterflies argent

The monarch butterfly is assumed to have been known to period Europeans; the Smithsonian National Zoological Park website (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/Whats_in_a_name/default.cfm?id=17) notes that the monarch butterfly was "named by early North American settlers, who saw its bright orange colors and thought of the King of England, William of Orange." As settlers were in North America prior to this, it can be assumed that they were familiar with the butterfly under a different name. The use of this charge is considered one step from period practice. [Andelcrag, Barony of, 11/2005, A-Middle]

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-05 18:04:19
However, there's also a finding that because the monarch is edged sable, it provides contrast with metal fields. Would that necessarily prove a contrast issue with color fields?

[Or, three monarch butterflies proper] The outer edge of a monarch butterfly is sable; thus there is sufficient contrast between the orange and black butterfly and the Or field. [Andelcrag, Barony of, 11/2005, A-Middle]

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-06 09:41:50
The butterflies need to be fully proper or able to be blazoned heraldically. If we try "argent marked sable," we may very well run afoul of the contract rule based on the precedent you cited. The black does blur a bit on the blue in the color corrected copy. I would still suggest making the butterflies completely white.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:19:06
I'd have drawn the bend rather thicker, but this is probably registrable as is. No conflicts found. It will of course have to wait until her name is submitted.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-08 22:36:23
Name was on the August 2018 LoI. https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=5286

Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair at 2018-12-11 14:53:47
Would this be a better butterfly to use?

1: Image 1

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-11 15:04:34
So, this looks more moth than butterfly to me - but that could be a debatable point.

It's clearly argent, which is good. So, it depends on the submitter's preference.



Mistholme and the Traceable Art Project both have options as well. http://mistholme.com/dictionary/insects/

http://heraldicart.org/butterfly/

Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair at 2018-12-13 09:14:50
Does this one resolve all the issues? If so, do I need to do a complete re-submission, or is there a way to substitute the images?

1: Image 1


5: Jorundr Bjornssen -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.
Language most important.
Spelling most important.

http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-03 18:23:20
Bjornssen is not supported with this documentation.

I do not believe this name is constructed properly. First, "-ssen" is not seen in Old Norse. Also, the "Bjorn-" part is not constructed correctly for that time. I will defer to Gunvorr and ffride in their commentary on a Bjornsson submitted in October (Snipping to only include relevant parts):

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-11-01 22:05:27 ... The actual Old Norse names would be ... Biǫrn. The name would therefore be ... Biarnarson or ... Bjarnarson.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-11-05 04:32:42 Agree with Gunnvor Orle. As noted at kingdom, the expected name would be (without accents) "Otarr Bjarnarson."

There are ways to get "Bjornsson," though what I have found quickly is late period. I'd need to do a lot more digging to find "Bjornssen." Even then, it will not be Norse. Language and spelling are not compatible.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-12-05 17:52:09
Concur with Sable Crane.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 15:32:42
I didn't find a conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:19:44
In supplied reference, the given name is spelled as "Jǫrundr" and the father's name as "Biǫrn".

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-12-16 05:45:01
If the submitter does want something closer to Jorundr Bjornssen, there is...
SMP volume 17, cols. 229-231 sn. Iærund (I'm pretty sure these are all nominative case):
Jorunde Væsten æid, Norwegian, 1333
Jærunder, 1346
Jærunder Hafuersson, Norwegian, 1348
Iørundr Hafversson, Norwegian, 1349
Jorund Loghman, Norwegian, 1349
Jorunder logmader, Norwegian, 1388

I'd be comfortable suggesting an interpolated, 14th c. Norwegian form recorded as "Jorundr."

(I think a name like "Iørundr Biørnsszen" would be amazing, but I am not the submitter.)


6: Kittryne Babbitt de Elsyngg -New Name & New Device

Azure, between three arrows crossed in pall tips to center argent inverted three mullets Or

No major changes.
Sound most important.
Spelling (Kitt-ryn Babbitt de Elsyngg) most important.

See Attached

- Client would prefer speling to be Kitt-Ryne, but will accept Kitren (Family Search)

- Client would prefer the format of surname as "de Elsyngg" or "Ellsinge" - will accept Elsing (Family Search)

- Babbit as variation of Barbara? Babbitt Surname as Given

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-12-01/14-52-21_Kittryne_Babbitt_de_Elsyngg_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-12-01/14-52-21_Kittryne_Babbitt_de_Elsyngg_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-12-01/14-52-22_Kittryne_Babbitt_de_Elsyngg_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-12-01/14-52-22_Kittryne_Babbitt_de_Elsyngg_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-12-01/14-52-22_Kittryne_Babbitt_de_Elsyngg_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-03 18:51:02
Link to "de Elsyngg" - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/surlondon1319.html

"Kitt" is a diminutive of Katherine, but nothing in the provided documentation suggests a name of Kittryne. I'd suggest either going with Kitren in Family search or register some form of Katerine (no h). Unfortunately, the documentation provided for Kitt is not from a source I'd deem credible. Link - http://infernaldreams.com/names/Europe/Medieval/England.htm

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-04 18:11:58
The link for the second byname is actually to <de Elsyngg'> which I'm told is scribal abbreviation for <de Elsyngge>.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 09:42:52
Missed the apostrophe. That is likely, then. Thanks.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 16:00:35
I figured the source for Kitt was not credible - I think Kitren will work out better for her.

As it stands, I think having her be Kitren Babbitt de Elsyng'/Elsyngge will suffice for her.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:20:34
The attached documentation supports Kitren Babbit de Elsyngg' ,

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-18 15:32:34
I think we have to expand the scribal abbreviation, as we do with M'/Mc/Mac, to get

<Kitren Babbit de Elsyngge>

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-04 18:09:40
I think we'll resequence closer to

Azure, three arrows crossed in pall inverted tips to center argent between three mullets Or

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:21:59
Agree. No conflicts found.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 15:10:42
Agree with Gerard's reblazon.
I find no conflicts, but there are various arrow configurations, so a second set of eyes would help. Apparently people really like gold arrows & not so much white ones.


7: Lucienne le Patniare -New Name & New Device

Sun argent eclipsed gules

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.
Meaning most important.

Lucienne is a feminine given name found in the Dictionary of Medieval Names from European Sources

http://dmnvs.org/cite/Lucienne/1296/paris1296/

Le Pataiere is the feminine form of an occupational byname meaning pastry maker or seller, found in Occupational By-Names in the 1292 Tax Role of Paris by Gbm Bubh

http://heraldry.sca.org/names/parisbynames.html

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-12-03 09:39:38
Docs check out. Lucienne: Lucienne f. (n/a) Old French. Paris, France. 1296. paris1296 p. 19. Accessed 12/3/18. http://dmnes.org/cite/Lucienne/1296/paris1296

Colm Dubh's article shows the feminine spelling as pataiere.

SENA Appendix A: Patterns, French, Descriptive/Occupational shows "Yes; may use article le, la, l', les or un/une or omit it" for Late period.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:22:29
Docs check out.

Tostig Logiosophia at 2018-12-17 18:32:53
It's been noted elsewhere that there seems to be a typo on the surname in the heading <le Patniare>. Documentation is for <le Patiare>. Please verify.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-17 20:51:21
the header on the form is <le Patniere> but it is hand written, and could very well be <le Pataiere>, as spelled in the supporting documentation area.

Tostig Logiosophia at 2018-12-17 21:20:06
Will try to have the submitter confirm the intended surname.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-12-03 15:46:55
Sable, a sun argent eclipsed gules.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:23:01
Agree. No conflicts found.

Taddea di Avito del Pace at 2018-12-05 14:47:50
Nice clean design!


8: Miles Ridley -New Name & New Device

Vert, three lions passant between a chevron Or charged with three trees blasted and couped vert

No major changes.

See Attached

Miles - Batch P00050-1 - 1591

England Births & Christenings 15381975

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N58724

Ridley - Batch P01411-1 - 1590

https://familysearch,org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPL0QJJ

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-11-28/19-48-20_Miles_Ridley_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2343/2018-11-28/19-48-21_Miles_Ridley_name_doc_2.jpg

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 10:16:51
While the name is acceptable based on the documentation provided and very close temporally, these two villages are about as far apart as possible within England as they can be.

A bit closer geographically and from the same documents, we get-

From Durham & Northumberland:

Miles -

English Given Names from 16th and Early 17th C Marriage Records by Sara L. Uckelman.

Miles is found 6 times between 1552 and 1612. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/parishes/parishes.html

Ridley - Surnames in Durham and Northumberland, 1521-1615 by Julie Kahan https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/parish/surnames_r.html

Ridley is found multiple times between 1580-1614

A bit earlier in time and not as close temporally, I also found these from York:

Miles - Masculine Given Names Found in the 1523 Subsidy Roll for York and Ainsty, England (sorted Alphabetically) by Karen Larsdatter (Karen Harris) Miles is found 3 times as a given name.

Ridley - Surnames in 15th Century York Ridley is found as a surname in 15th century York. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/york15/surnames-alphabetical.htm

Rudimentary check reveals no conflicts I can find.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:23:37
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-12-03 15:49:51
Reblazoning to put the charges in the proper order:

Vert, on a chevron between three lions passant Or three trees blasted and couped vert.

The chevron is much too low.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-04 18:32:40
I'd expect a return for that reason.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-12-05 17:53:07
Concur with Iago. A chevron must be centered around the fessline.

1: Image 1

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-12-05 18:07:55
Agreed. I've spoken with the submitting herald, and she should be posting her redraw soon.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-12-05 19:48:05
Here is the redraw for the chevron, Elena says that it should be passable.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-18 15:35:55
[Art criticism: Very nice indeed. Great work maintaining the size of the beasts and enlarging the trees!]

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2019-01-05 22:11:41
Excellent.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:24:26
Agree on both points. No conflicts found.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 10:39:12
Agree with Iago on reblazon as well as the need to redraw the chevron.

I found no conflicts.


9: Vitoria de Vera -New Name & New Device

Per chevron sable and vert, a wolf rampant and in chief three crescents argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Vitoria - Portuguese Feminine Names from Lisbon, 1565

www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/portuguese/fem1565.html

de Vera - Portuguese Surnames from Lisbon, 1565 - "locative"

www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/portuguese/sur1565.html

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 11:36:16
Docs check out.

I didn't see any conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:24:43
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-12-03 15:51:42
The line of division is 'per chevron inverted'.

Per chevron inverted sable and vert, a wolf rampant and in chief three crescents argent.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-12-05 11:30:42
Agree with Iago on reblazon.

Very close calls with- Owen MacPherson: Per bend sinister sable and azure, a wolf rampant and in chief three increscents argent. DC for change of field partition and DC for orientation of the crescents.

Damhan Mac Manus: Per bend vert and sable, a wolf sejant ululant and in chief three crescents argent. DC for changes to the field and DC for the attitude of the primary charge.

But I think it is clear.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-12-06 19:26:15
Agree with Iago's blazon. The partition line is far too high; it should be lowered so that the field is cut into nearly equal halves. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-12-18 15:43:07
The criterion adopted by our Sovereigns for divisions per cheveron, as Orle illustrated s.n. Miles Ridley, https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=5552#8 above for the corresponding ordinary, is not that the areas must be equal but that the fessline must bisect the division line. This it does, if we measure using the hidden point of the division behind the wolf's knee. On my screen, I make it 4.5 cm each above and below the fessline.



OSCAR counts 7 Names, 6 Devices and 1 Badge. There are a total of 14 items submitted on this letter.