OSCAR Kingdoms: Ansteorran CoH Internal Submissions Page

[ ANSTEORRA Home | Ansteorra Heraldry | Ansteorra Submissions ]
[Æth|AnT|Arte|Aten|Atla|Avac|Calo|Drac|Eald|East|Glea|Loch|Meri|Midd|Nort|Outl|Trim]


ANSTEORRA Home
Ansteorra Heraldry
Ansteorra Submissions

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

Actively
Commenting
only:
Include LoI Text:
Include Comments:
Type:

Ansteorra ILoI dated 2016-05-06

Hail, Commenters! I keep anticipating a giant letter with All the Gulf Wars Submissions, but payments are trickling in slowly. That means a reasonable sized letter again. As always, your comments are greatly appreciated.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:45:34
Comments under my name represent the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, this month consisting of Lady Brigida von Munchen, Purple Falcon Herald, and myself, with email support from Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant.

1: Cian ap Reys -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Ansteorra LoI of April 18, 2016 as submitted.

Per chevron vert and purpure, a chevron argent between three sparrows volant Or

Submitted through the Barony of Namron

Consulting herald Villana Palazolo

Device was returned at kingdom on http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoD/ilod201602.pdf

"This item is returned for a redraw, the chevron is

low, it needs to divide the field in half, and be a

bit thicker. Sparrows do not have a default

posture, and as emblazoned, are not in a

blazonable posture/position. "

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1532/2016-05-04/13-21-24_Cian_ap_Rhys_device_color.png

Device Comments:

Matilda Wynter at 2016-05-07 16:06:58
IMHO this certainly fixes the problem :)

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:22:41
Concur.

No conflicts observed.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:46:24
Agree that this resub seems to have answered the objections to the previous version. No conflicts found.

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 15:06:07
I didn't find any conflict.


2: Diarmuid mac Brain -Resub Name & Resub Device

Or, a raven rising sable holding in its dexter claw a torque purpure

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Submitted through the Barony of Namron

Consulting herald Villana Palazolo

Diarmuid -- male given name, Gaelic pre-14th century

100 Most Popular Men's Names in Early Medieval Ireland

by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

http://heraldry.sca.org/names/irish100.html

(Asterisk : I see Diarmait but not Diarmuid. However, the -uid spelling appears here : http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Diarmait.shtml -- Entry M823.3 Diarmuid ua Aodha Róin)

mac Brain -- genitive form of Bran, a name used incessantly from 596 to 1435 in Mari's Index of Names In Irish Annals

http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Bran.shtml

Name was originally submitted in June 2015 as Diarmuid mac Briccriu; returned at kingdom because Briccriu has only been used in legend. (http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoD/ilod201506.pdf , p. 14)

Submitted through the Barony of Namron

Consulting herald Villana Palazolo

Originally submitted June 2015. Held because accompanying name submission was returned at kingdom. This device is a different design than the one submitted last year, so commentary on that one is not relevant. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingloi.php?kingdom=8&loi=3229)

Name Comments:

Alys Mackyntoich (Ogress) at 2016-05-09 19:23:56
Simplifying the docs:

<Diarmuid> is found in the raw data of Mari ingen Briain meic Donnnchada's "Index of Names in Irish Annals" (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Diarmait.shtml) s.n. Diarmait, dated to 823 and 824.

mac - Gaelic patronymic marker

<Brain> is the genitive form of <Bran>, found in Mari's "Index" (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Bran.shtml) with relevant dates of 814, 818, 831, 833 and 834.

So this is a nice 9th cen. Gaelic name.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:47:07
Docs check out. I'm never sure about name conflicts. How about Díarmaid Ó Bríain: reg. 11/12 via the East?

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-06-05 12:28:34
I was about to bring up that name (given that's my significant other) in question for the conflict. I can see if I can get a PtC, however.

Sara Penrose (Sable Roundel) at 2016-06-05 13:08:47
SENA says that "Names are substantially different if changes in sound and appearance to the substantive element affect at least two syllables (including adding, removing, or reordering them)." There is a change in appearance for both elements. I assume there is a change in sound between Brain and Bríain (I don't know anything about Gaelic pronunciation, but Bríain looks to me like it has an extra syllable). Is there a change in sound between Diarmuid and Díarmaid? If so, is that enough to clear the conflict? Trying to learn more about how conflict-checking names works. :)

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-06-05 14:41:07
There's no difference between Diarmaid and Diarmuid. As for the differences between Bríain (bree-on or breen; dependent on dialect) and Brain (bree-on) is pretty close.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-06-08 14:48:16
How the heck are you getting bree-on from Brain? The vowel in the base name Bran is AH, and the genitive addition just changes the AH to AHee, it doesn't kick the AH vowel sound entirely out of the name.

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-06-08 17:13:22
In the dialect that he uses, all syllables are pronounced. That being said, I'm not an onomast, so this is definitely a learning experience for me.

Sara Penrose (Sable Roundel) at 2016-06-05 13:16:34
Ah, SENA also says that a Substantial Change to One Syllable is enough: "The addition or removal of a syllable makes two names substantially different in sound". So if Bríain is indeed two syllables and Brain is one, then they're clear of each other, are they not?

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-06-05 14:43:18
Sadly, they're both dual syllabic. Mac and O are the only differing syllables.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-06-08 14:44:14
They are not. One is a diphthong, which we consider one vowel sound and accordingly one syllable, and the other is two syllables.

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-06-05 14:53:18
Now, that being said, Mac and O are significantly different in sound and syllable, and could be that they're clear of each other.

Díarmaid Ó Bríain at 2016-06-10 20:07:49
Nope. No conflicts here. The modern equivalent would be, "Dermot MacByrne."

That being said, dude needs some fadas. They're essential for correct pronunciation.

Only other point is that I'd spell it, "Broin," but the majority of vowel collections in Irish are generally voiceless allophones, so no harm, no foul.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-06-08 14:42:06
Regarding the conflict called with Díarmaid Ó Bríain; utter poppycock. The given names are identical; the change of the vowel in the second syllable is a common spelling variation and makes zero difference. The relational markers are a clear difference, Mac 'son (of)' versus Ó 'descendant (of)'. The remaining difference is the underlying name of the byname. Bran, pronounced BRAHN, is a native Irish name (meaning raven, hence the cant here). Brían, pronounced BREE-@n, is likely borrowed from a proto-Celtic Brigonos and went through a number of forms in medieval Irish, including Brion where there was equal stress, BREE-OWN. This form in turn got confused with the Irish name Bróen, and yeah, it's a mess. But that isn't our problem, because we don't call conflict on what might have happened if somebody moved, and Johnson became Jones. We call conflict on the submitted form. Mac Brain is pronounced mahk BRAHeen, where AHee is the diphthong we messed-up English speakers call "long I". Brain is one syllable, like brine. Ó Bríain is pronounced OH BREE-@n; it is TWO syllables, like Ian. The names are alike in their consonants, but entirely different in vowel sound(s) and number of syllables, and should not be considered a conflict any more than Fred and Frieda.

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 15:23:33
Other than the aforementioned Díarmaid Ó Bríain I see nothing close. I will leave to others to decide about Díarmaid Ó Bríain.

Device Comments:

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 13:20:57
I am concerned about the position of the bird as drawn. Rising is technically standing on tiptoe as a rooster does when it crows, but clearly supported by the ground; this bird has one claw dangling down holding an object and the other floating loose in space as though it is ramping. See below example of an eagle rising/rousant.

1: Image 1

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 09:46:15
This foot posture was registered as recently as June 2013 without comment http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/06/15-06lar.html#91

1: Image 1

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-16 14:47:47
Uh, no... the registered bird has his back foot solidly on the ground. He is supported. He is, as it were, lifting off. The bird submitted is of necessity already airborne somehow, and trailing that torque underneath him. If the torque were in the raised foot, and the other were flat on the ground, I wouldn't have a problem.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-05-13 04:58:40
I'm worried about the torque being identifiable -- given SENA has an emphasis on medieval and renaissance Europe, do we have any examples of torques that look like this, that are late enough?

The Lochar Moss torc, for instance, is ca. 50-200 CE, and doesn't look similar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochar_Moss_Torc)
The Buzău torc ca. 250-400 CE, also doesn't match (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Pietroassa)

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 09:28:27
Searching submissions in OSCAR (for <torc> and <torque>) the only depiction similar to this was "Azure, an open book Or and on a chief argent a torc sable." It was registered without comment (LoAR Jan 2012, A-An Tir - "Ermelina of Dragon's Mist [Submitted under the name Ermelina de Carville")

1: Image 1

Matilda Wynter at 2016-05-15 19:45:14
TBH I thought it was a horseshoe

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-15 20:32:53
As a matter of fact, you do have to conflict check under 'Horseshoe' (and 'Annulet') in addition to 'Jewelry'.

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 09:49:30
No conflicts observed. Closest was versus "Argent, a raven rising reguardant wings displayed proper, maintaining in the dexter claw a sword gules." (Cigfran Myddrael Joserlin, the Raven, Device, Sep 2013) with DC's for changes to tincture of field and tertiary.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:48:09
"torc" A claw is a toenail. Make this either "in its dexter claws" or "with its dexter foot". On my screen, the purpure is so dark as to be read as sable. No conflicts found.

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 15:35:28
IMO, this is neither rising nor volant bendwise, nor yet close ululant (not that that would be permitted). The posture blurs various distinctions and should IMO be redrawn for that reason. However, I didn't find any conflict no matter what posture is used.


3: Guillaume Chacal -New Name Change

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Galen Niccoli(1/1989), Galen Sewell (2/2004), Gillian Jewell (6/2012), Gillian McGill (11/2005)

OSCAR NOTE: the old name was registered in October of 2015, via Ansteorra.

Old Item: Guillaume of the Shadowlands, to be released.
Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning (the Jackal) most important.

Submitted thought the Barony of the Shadowlands

Consulting herald Artorius Germanius

Client wishes to be known as "Le Chacal" / the Jackal.

Found Chacal at familysearch.org

(Asterisk -- I have no idea why OSCAR can't find the old name. It was registered 10/2015. It's in the O&A.)

Name Comments:

Christopher Devereux (Liber) at 2016-05-06 13:22:23
<Guillaume of the Shadowlands> was registered to the submitter in October 2015. It is grandfathered to the submitter, but French and Iberian names can be mixed between 1100 and 1600 so there are no style issues.

The only record for <Chacal> that I can find via FamilySearch within the acceptable time frame has no batch number, so we'd have to evaluate the record individually. A link is provided to the scan of the page, and I've underlined the byname in the screen capture below. The date on the record is given as 25 May 1586, and is a baptismal record from Santa Maria de la Asuncion, Jalatlaco, Mexico, Mexico. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5TZ-YZ7

If you look at the individual pages linked, the dates for 1586 start on page 66, with the surname appearing on page 71.

I can't find anything to support <le Chacal>, however. Just <Guillaume Chacal>, as submitted.

1: Image 1

Christopher Devereux (Liber) at 2016-05-11 14:24:37
I should note that, given the source, this version of Chacal is probably borrowed in from a Mesoamerican language, so even if this went forward, the client's request for the meaning, marked as most important, would not be correct.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-05-07 04:34:56
I checked the Internet Archive's A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues by Randle Cotgrave, 1611 and didn't find Chacal. https://archive.org/details/fre_b2062733

I searched Googlebooks for chacal, French, 1540 to 1630. Three books came back but it was not the same word.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 13:52:08
I've been through the DMF (middle French dictionary) with a fine-toothed comb. I do not believe the word chacal was in use in French in period. Checking the OED, the first usage of jackal is 1603 (jackalles), so it's not strictly period in English, either. I suspect that if anyone saw and wrote about a jackal, they would have called it a dog or a wolf, being a canid. There is no Latin word for jackal; we borrowed it, as did everybody else, from chacal which is Persian. Boy, do I have a long list of animal epithets for him, but jackal is not among them.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-05-12 04:20:12
I checked the OED, too, but since he didn't want an English name I didn't include it in my comments. French is a little out of my comfort zone.

Artorius at 2016-06-01 11:44:31
He's OK with Guillaume Chacal

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 15:53:06
The etymology of "jackal" from the OED:

Etymology: Corruption of Turkish chakāl, < Persian shagāl, or shaghāl, cognate with Sanskrit s'rgāla, ç'rgāla jackal. Through Turkish also, French chacal (formerly also in English), whence Portuguese chacal, Italian sciacal, German (Danish, Swedish) schakal. The Dutch jakhals was probably < English: compare quot. 1694 at sense 1. The English word was formerly (as still in some dialects) stressed on the second syllable; the current form, and the obsolete Jack-call, show association with the proper name Jack, and names of animals containing it.
Thus, the OED says that "chacal" is French, which is good enough for me. IOW, I believe the name is documented.

I didn't find any conflict.


4: Iago Cabrera de Cadiz -New Name Change & New Device

OSCAR NOTE: filing name should not be registered for a primary name change. It was, in in September of 2016, via Ansteorra.

Sable, a mash rake Or.

Old Item: Iago al Hasan, to be released.
No major changes.

Submitted through the Barony of Bjornsborg at Gulf Wars

Consulting herald Adelaide de Beaumont

Iago may be considered grandfathered to submitter due to current registration. Documentation attached attesting to name usage in pre-1600 Iberia.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2834-belmonte -- Don Iago y Sampayo given the city of Belmonte by King Manuel of Portugal in 1519.

Cabrera, surname: Juan Cabrera christened 14 Sept 1548, Santiago Apostol, Valladolid, Spain

IGI BatchC 87105-1

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFX8-CZJ

de Cadiz, locative : one of the oldest cities in Spain. See attached map drawn by William Borough (1536-1599) detailing Sir Francis Drake's attack on the city in 1587. Local names (Isla de Cadiz, Puerto Real) are rendered in Spanish, though the document is obviously English. (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William_Borough_Sir_Francis_Drake_in_Cadiz.jpg)

Submitted through the Barony of Bjornsborg at Gulf Wars

Consulting herald Adelaide de Beaumont

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1532/2016-05-06/08-33-49_800px-William_Borough_Sir_Francis_Drake_in_Cadiz.jpg

Name Comments:

Christopher Devereux (Liber) at 2016-05-06 14:07:11
The submitter's original name was registered in September 1992, and we should be able to grandfather it to the submitter per SENA PN1.B.2.g. <Iago> is treated as neutral, and both of the other name elements are from a single culture dated within 500 years of each other. The entry provided for the Jewish Encyclopedia is also as it appears in the 1912 edition of the same Encyclopedia.

Documentation for Cabrera confirmed.

We also have: Juan <de Cadiz>, m, 26 Dec 1640, Santa Maria De La Natividad, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico. Batch #M60568-5. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHLN-QQR

I don't see any conflicts for this name.

Vigdis Gráfeldr (Asterisk) at 2016-05-10 16:19:54
Consulting herald Adelaide de Beaumont has provided me with further documentation which did not make the trip from Gulf Wars with the submission.

Concerning the given name Iago in Iberia. Saint James the Great, known in Spain as Santiago, is one of the most revered saints in medieval Iberia [1]. Many and varied are the forms of his name, reflecting the many small kingdoms contained within the Iberian Peninsula, and the fashion of many centuries. Here are some of the forms found in Iberia during the early and middle medieval period [2]:





Note the individual in record as don Iague in 1179 and don Iago in 1204 and 1207. The citation of 1207 almost certainly comes from a record in Navarre mentioned in the donation of land as "iudex don iago de blasco auent" [3]:

A different individual "iago milano" appears in record in a contract for purchase of shares in three mills by Jews in Aguilar in 1187 (and a cartulary copy of 1235) [4]:





In particular, the name seems to have remained popular in the Iberian Converso "Marano" Jewish families. The family later known as Belmonte from the town in Portugal record their decent from a "Don Iago y Sampayo" (b. 1493) who received a grant of the town of Belmonte from King Manuel of Portugal in 1519 [5, 6]:







Note the grandson born in 1554 (whether in Portugal or the Netherlands is unclear), also named Iago.

Though clearly less popular than Jaime and other forms of James, it appears that Iago was in common use in pre-1600 Iberia, and is accordingly appropriate for use in an SCA Iberian name.

Adelaide de Beaumont



[1] Farmer, David Hugh. The Oxford Dictionary of Saints, 3rd Ed. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1993, s.v. James the Great.

[2] Becker, Lidia. Hispano-romanisches Namenbuch. Berlin: Walter de Gruyter, 2009, pp. 585-586. Note the bold initials indicate the region of Spain where the name was found: NW=northwest, NZ=north central, NO=northeast and BPR=Pyrenees region. https://books.google.com/books/about/Hispano_romanisches_Namenbuch.html?id=b7MSDzZuuGUC https://books.google.com/books?id=WXlM8e7DEdMC&pg=PA586&lpg=PA586&dq=%22don+iago+de+blasco%22&source =bl&ots=4EyeUQrxCF&sig=Tf629v5491OwFDr7zFFG_8i-Sk8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilitC9qfjKAhVHPiYKHeH6CQcQ 6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22don%20iago%20de%20blasco%22&f=false

[3] Arigita y Lasa, Mariano, ed. Colección de documentos inéditos para la historia de Navarra. Pamplona, 1900, pp. 155-156. https://books.google.com/books?id=BuMpAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=o nepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=JKJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=%22don+iago%22+%22don+miguel%22 &source=bl&ots=r1jSE8lA5R&sig=LqnJc9SnHj94xbl6oVdwaRE-4vU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFnrTt9vfKAhWF5yYKH XQYBAYQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=%22don%20iago%22%20%22don%20miguel%22&f=false

[4] Corfis, Ivy A., ed. Al-Andalus, Sepharad and Medieval Iberia: Cultural Contact and Diffusion. Boston: Brill, 2009, pp. 139, 141. https://books.google.com/books?id=12w3qo2hkq4C https://books.google.com/books?id=12w3qo2hkq4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=don+iago+medieval+-shakespeare+ -santiago&source=bl&ots=xx4mVUMB9m&sig=6l4uawdSn2VBIyQi9yq_mQbL2ps&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3lsvy8_fK AhVBKiYKHTV9CZ8Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=don%20iago%20medieval%20-shakespeare%20-santiago&f=false

[5] Gottheil, Richard James Horatio. The Belmont-Belmonte Family: A Record of Four Hundred Years, Put Together from the Original Documents in the Archives and Liibraries of Spain, Portugal, Holland, England and Germany, as Well as from Private Sources. New York: Privately printed (Columbia University), 1917, p. 24. https://books.google.com/books?id=lgM8AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=%22don+iago%22+medieval+spain&sou rce=bl&ots=sXk1w7vHye&sig=9P1xBL4c8mzYetva8_YJCbweOkk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy6_rR9PfKAhUGKiYKHeohC VsQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22don%20iago%22%20medieval%20spain&f=false

[6] Singer, Isadore and Adler, Cyrus, eds. The Jewish Encyclopedia: A Descriptive Record of the History, Religion, Literature, and Customs of the Jewish People from the Earliest Times to the Present Day, Volume 2 . New York: Funk & Wagnells, 1912, p. 664. https://books.google.com/books?id=X3ae4K2S9jQC&pg=PA664&lpg=PA664&dq=%22don+iago+y+sampayo%22+belmon te+manuel&source=bl&ots=lcyRSite72&sig=BVoPgI33eeOF0VgNM3ZHBrDumBM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrpdvH9ffK AhVF8CYKHdcBDHYQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=%22don%20iago%20y%20sampayo%22%20belmonte%20manuel&f=false

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2016-05-30 19:43:51
No conflicts whatsoever

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 15:57:09
Documentation looks good. I didn't find any conflict.

Device Comments:

Vigdis Gráfeldr (Asterisk) at 2016-05-10 16:26:19
Consulting herald Adelaide de Beaumont has provided me with documentation for this charge, which did not arrive with the submission from Gulf Wars.

http://mistholme.com/dictionary/mash-rake/ A mash rake is a tool used by brewers, with a long handle and cross-barred tines. It was used to churn the mash and keep it well mixed while steeping. The mash rake was the attribute of St. Arnold of Soissons: the illustration was taken from a mid-15th C. image of the saint, in the Museum of Fine Arts, Ghent. A similar artifact, possibly a mash rake, is found in the arms of Meilenhofter, mid-16th Century [NW 47]. For related charges, see fork.

The Baron of Mordenvale's Company of Brewers bears: Per chevron vert and gules, two mash rakes in saltire Or.

http://vlaamseprimitieven.vlaamsekunstcollectie.be/en/collection/saint-arnold-of-soissons-and-saint- godeleva).

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 08:57:27
No conflicts observed under Tools - Agricultural (The O&A Category) or Tools - Forks and Spoons (Listed as a related charge in the PicDic)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:49:06
Docs check out. No conflicts found.

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 16:03:34
I don't think there's any conflict, though I'll leave to others to determine just exactly what this charge is a DC from.


5: Katerine la rousse d'Anjou -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2014, via Ansteorra.

(Fieldless) A domestic cat salient argent marked sable sustaining on its back a grenade in bend reversed proper.

Submitted through the Barony of Loch Soilleir

Consulting herald Elena Wyth

Badge Comments:

Matilda Wynter at 2016-05-07 16:07:52
I was wondering when someone would submit RocketCat

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:31:45
Consider Non-Period-Style. Is there evidence of a charge sustained on the back of a beast?

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-16 14:54:20
I do admit given the cat's posture I wonder how the grenade is staying on. I would actually rather they would submit rocket cat, i.e., the drawings with a longer-bodied grenade clearly held on by several straps.

Elena Wyth at 2016-05-18 10:21:14
There are at least two instances of animals + grenades being registered with the CoH. In both instances, the straps were omitted. Similarly, the shape of the grenade in both instances was the "standard" heraldic grenade, so we felt it was better to go with what has previously been registered.

Cat: https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=57528

Dove: https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=45005

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-18 10:48:49
Registrations (without comment) confirmed. No visible conflicts under the proposed reblazon "(Fieldless) A domestic cat maintaining on its back a grenade bendwise reversed proper."

The posture of the bottom feet is somewhere between rampant and salient, but the two postures are not heraldically different in the SCA. The changes from sustained to maintained and in bend to bendwise follows the registration of Eva of Greenfield. (LoAR Dec 2015).

Sara Penrose (Sable Roundel) at 2016-05-14 17:03:45
Just so everyone knows the period inspiration for this: https://uniqueatpenn.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/a-rocket-cat-early-modern-explosives-treatises-at-penn /

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-15 17:19:34
4 different manuscripts of the same treatise, with very similar illustrated variations of the same concept. Buch von den probierten Künsten is not a heraldic treatise, but arguing this as a regional artifact might have success.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:51:40
The grenade is bendwise inverted. The cat looks more like sejant erect than salient. No conflicts found. Love the pictorial evidence Elena offered in support of the rocket cat; Brigida had also found that. No conflicts found.

Basil Dragonstrike (Boar) at 2016-06-10 16:16:48
Blazon suggestion: (Fieldless) A domestic cat rampant argent sustaining on its back a grenade bendwise reversed sable fired proper.
The cat is more rampant than salient. The sable on the cat is more detailing than what is usually meant by "marked". The Glossary doesn't have a "proper" for a grenade, but does for fire.

I didn't find any conflict.


6: Mabre Gardiner -New Alternate Name & New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2012, via Ansteorra.

Una inigean Uetla

(Fieldless) A crescent inverted surmounted by an arrow fracted in chevron inverted argent.

Culture (Pictish) most important.

Submitted through the Barony of Bjornsborg at Gulf Wars

Consulting herald Herveus

Una : Úna appears in Index of Names of Irish Annals - Kathleen O'Brien

(http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Una.shtml) (Asterisk : dates for this name on this page are between 1306-1589)

inigean - Oghamic marker

Uetla : found in A Consideration of Pictish Names referenced from SENA Appendis A - Gaelic as a post-Brude king Uradech uetla Gaptnaich diUberr (Asterisk : this is possibly misspelled; illegible)

Going for Early Pictish. Una filia Uetlia not desirable. Is there another patronymic marker?

(Asterisk: Uuradech uetla or Wradach uetla is also in "Chronicles of the Picts, chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history"

https://archive.org/stream/chroniclesofpict00sken/chroniclesofpict00sken_djvu.txt)

(Asterisk: uetla seems to be a byname per A Consideration of Pictish Names

by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/pictnames/pict3_4.html)

Submitted through the Barony of Bjornsborg at Gulf Wars

Consulting herald Herveus

Alternate Name Comments:

Alys Mackyntoich (Ogress) at 2016-05-09 19:41:10
I am afraid this name doesn't work.

Gaelic and Pictish are part of the same language group per Appendix C, so there need to be less than 500 years between the elements. The earliest appearance of Úna is 1306, so the byname elements cannot be found earlier than 800. It's not clear from Tangwystl's article that the element <Uetla> or <Uecla> is late enough. Early Scotland: The Picts, the Scots and the Welsh of Southern Scotland by Hector Munro Chadwick at p. 8 (https://books.google.com/books?id=xNcKzZwHmnYC) places the reign of the sole bearer of this name at approximately 400 A.D.

Also, <Uetla> is a byname, not a given name (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/pictnames/pict3_4.html). Only given names can be used with <inigean>.

FYI - I am not finding Uetla or Uecla in the Chronicles of the Picts cited in the summary.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 14:05:03
Where is inigean supported? I didn't think we had, strictly speaking, evidence of female relational markers in Pictish names, though I'm familiar with the Latinized inigena.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:52:23
he problem is that we simply don't know anything about feminine Pictish names. There is a Brythonic (occurs in a Welsh genealogy) name Onen grech, which appears to mean Onen "the hoarse" or "the stammerer." This is not Pictish, but is Northern Brythonic. Onen Uetla would perhaps be plausible? Onen grech is dated to the 6th century. Agree that Uetla is apparently a byname, not a given name.

Badge Comments:

Matilda Wynter at 2016-05-07 16:09:45
this looks like an attempt to register the pictish crescent and arrow motif...not that its necessarily a problem

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:08:34
Consider Non-Period-Style. The closest I can come to blazoning this is "(Fieldless) In pale an arrow fracted in chevron inverted debruising a crescent pendant argent." Other than labels, I'm unaware of any period overall charge that isn't centered over the primary charge (group).

Consider identfiability. With the tincture of both charges being the same, the emblazon should actually look like the attached image.

1: Image 1

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:53:40
The crescent is more commonly called a crescent pendant. No contrast between the two argent charges. Probably registrable, but a very bad idea. No conflicts found.


7: Nicholas Wolf -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 15th Century England.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

Submitted through the Barony of the Shadowlands

Consulting herald Artorius Germanius

I searched the database at www.medievalsoldier.org/search.php for first and last names of soldiers who fought during the Battle of Agincourt.

(Asterisk: The Agincourt Roll is BL_Harley_782 in this database. Searching those 840 records gives

Nicholas Thorley Man-at-arms Gloucester, Humphrey, Duke of Henry V 1415 Exped France BL_Harley_782 f72

and 38 others named Nicholas.

John Wolf Man-at-arms Oxford, Richard Vere, Earl of

is the only example with the surname Wolf in this data set, although there are another 37 between 1378 and 1473 in the database.)

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-05-06 14:23:59
The Medieval Soldier url is http://www.medievalsoldier.org/index.php John Wolf and Nicholas Thorley docs were confirmed by searching the Muster roll database.

FWIW, Nicholas Wolf is found in 1561, Hayes, Middlesex, England, Batch M86694-7, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJHH-3ZV

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:54:05
No conflicts found.


8: Ryan Savage -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Ansteorra LoI of April 18, 2016 as submitted.

Per pale sable and gules, a skull and in base a pipe and quill saltire argent

Submitted through the Barony of Namron

Consulting herald Villana Palazolo

Returned http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/ILoD/ilod201602.pdf

"This item is returned for a redraw, based on

SENA A.2.C.1 which states, "Elements must

be drawn in their period forms and in a

period armorial style."

The Pipe needs to be drawn in a period style pipe, and the quill pen needs

the feathers stripped back a lot more in order to distinguish it from a feather."

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1532/2016-05-04/15-14-59_Ryan_Savage_device_color.png

Device Comments:

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:16:40
Consider the reblazon "Per pale sable and gules, a skull and in base a quill and a pipe crossed in saltire argent." The bendwise charge is blazoned before the bendwise sinister charge.

Identifiabilty concerns seem to be addressed.

No conflicts observed.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:54:36
The charge in base is not a quill, but a (quill) pen. A quill is something else entirely. No conflicts found.


9: Ryska Belogorskoi -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for Russian meaning.
Meaning (First name must mean Lynx - Last name must involve white or snow) most important.

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gournay

Raatko to Rzhova

http://Heraldry.sca.org/names/paul/r.html - Ryska (Lynx)

A list of Locative Bynames Derived from Geographical Landmarks

http://heraldry.sca.org/names/toprus.html - Belogorskoi (White Hill)

Name Comments:

Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (Aldyrne) at 2016-05-06 14:28:01
-skoi is masculine. The feminine parallel ending is -skaia.

The cite for <Ryska> dates it to 1297 as a feminine name. This info should be included in the LoI when it goes out.

The webpage cited for the byname has the entry:

Belyi+gora -- "white hill." II: Belogor Semen Borisovich Alymov. 1610. [Ves 35]; IV: Ivan Pavlov syn Belogorskoi. 1583-7. [RIB XIV 122]


So, for a woman named Ryska from this location, her name would be <Ryska Belogorskaia>.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-05-13 05:41:56
Wickenden's source for Ryska is PSRL, volume 22 part 2, page 262.
(https://yadi.sk/public/?hash=kQhYSxAArCsKSCl5SSe6bdhXUUGrAt3EAoDcj4N0ra4%3D)

Which mentions Vatslav and Cracow, so, we're dealing with Wenceslaus II of Bohemia (ie. Václav II), and his second wife, Elizabeth Richeza of Poland (Ryksa-Elżbieta), who was the daughter of Richeza of Sweden.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Richeza_of_Poland)

So, the name is Czech/Polish/Swedish, not Russian.

Słownik staropolskich nazw osobowych volume 4 p. 536 sn. Ryszka has a feminine name:
<Ego Dauid Iudeus cum Riszka, matre mea> 1445
same page sn. Ryska has examples, but they seem to be a masculine byname?
Polish can be mixed with Russian, so <Ryszka Belogorskaia> could work?

But I'd want to see how Elizabeth Richeza's name was written during her time?

Juetta Copin at 2016-05-22 08:41:36
Looks like Wickenden's Ryska is a typo for Ryksa. However, Bieder s.n. Rifke dates Rysska to 1482 and Ryška to 1546, both in Prague.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-05-22 18:26:01
Nice!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:55:13
Docs check out, save that the surname needs to be feminine as Aldyrne has noted. No conflicts found.


10: Ysabeau Brossier -Resub Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Chevronelly argent and vert, a fox rampant proper maintaining a needle threaded Or.

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep at Gulf Wars

Consulting herald Villana Palazolo

Original submission was returned at Kingdom with these comments : This item is returned for a redraw. A <Fox

Proper> has black feet, this would be <a fox

rampant gules marked argent> which creates

a contrast issue with the argent leg on the

argent field.

Additionally, to be "overall" the fox must have

a portion of its head/top-half on the argent field at the top of the device.

Further, we will need a line drawing that matches the colored copy submitted.

https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=61219

Name was on Ansteorra ILoI dated 2016-02-08 and Ansteorra LoI dated 2016-04-18.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1532/2016-05-04/11-42-55_Yzabeau_Brossier_device_color.png

Device Comments:

Yzabeau Brossier at 2016-05-11 15:35:59
This device should be attached to Yzabeau Brossier, name has currently been submitted here. https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=63086

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:20:48
IMO there's enough of the argent tip of the tale on the vert portion of the field to be identifiable.

No conflicts observed.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-28 10:55:59
The tincture of both thread and needle are hard to see. Would like to see both drawn a bit thicker. No conflicts found.


This concludes the May Internal Letter for the Kingdom of Ansteorra.

Vigdís Gráfeldr

Asterisk Herald


OSCAR counts 3 Names, 2 Name Changes, 1 Alternate Name, 5 Devices and 2 Badges. There are a total of 13 items submitted on this letter.