OSCAR Kingdoms: Ansteorran CoH Internal Submissions Page

[ ANSTEORRA Home | Ansteorra Heraldry | Ansteorra Submissions ]
[Æth|AnT|Arte|Aten|Atla|Avac|Calo|Drac|Eald|East|Glea|Loch|Meri|Midd|Nort|Outl|Trim]


ANSTEORRA Home
Ansteorra Heraldry
Ansteorra Submissions

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

Actively
Commenting
only:
Include LoI Text:
Include Comments:
Type:

Ansteorra ILoI dated 2016-04-26

Greetings to the Ansteorran College of Heralds. This special ILOI brings to your attention the proposed name and device for an incipient canton. We welcome your comments. Note that the comment period closes in June; I am posting these early for commentary before the deluge of Gulf Wars submissions reaches us with the May ILOI.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-23 13:48:53
Comments under my name represent the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group this month consisting of Lady Brigida von Munchen, Purple Falcon Herald, and myself, with email support from Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant.

1: Wyldwood Keep -New Branch Name & New Device

Wyldwood Keep, Canton of

Per fess embattled Or and azure, three chevronels braced vert and a savage's head couped within a laurel wreath Or.

Consulting herald Andreas Meißner

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

<Wyldwood> is an English place-name.

The MED s.v. wīld(e (adj.) (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED52749) gives place names using this element: Wyldhulle (1365), Wyldedyche (c. 1380), Wyldegrene (1402), Wyldehelle (1433).

The MED s.v. wọ̄de (n.(2)) (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=byte&byte=247306017) has: Southewood (1450), Rostwode (1312), rastwode (1320-21), Halfewode (c. 1400), Summewode/

Sumerewode (1307), Quenewode (1478), Holtewodez (c.1400).

By precedent, <Keep> is registerable as both a standalone element and as part of a protheme in English place-names (June 2011 LoAR, A-Atenveldt, Cassandra Attewoode. Household name Summers Keep).

[Asterisk : Petition of support from the populace and officers has been received]

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

[Asterisk : blazon on form was : Or, three crests braced vert, embattled per fess azure with Or savage head couped]

[Asterisk : petition of support from officers and populace has been received.]

Branch Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-04-27 11:30:30
Docs check out. Click on 'show quotations' to see the place names from the documentation.

Alys Mackyntoich (Ogress) at 2016-04-28 15:53:07
The header in OSCAR should be <Wyldwood Keep, Canton of>

Alys Mackyntoich (Ogress) at 2016-05-09 18:56:29
The docs right now support <Wyldewode> -- we should find out how early the spelling -wood starts being used and get documentation for that.

<Wyldwood> here is structured like a compound place name, and follows the patterns were see in Juliana de Luna's "Compound Place Names in English" (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/EnglishCompoundPlacenames/).

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 12:59:35
However, the precedent in question specifically says, "This does not allow the registration of Keep as a deuterotheme (second element) in placenames; it remains unattested and will not be allowed without further evidence." As in Northkeep, which is likely the reason for the element here. The precedent further says, "As one pattern for compound placenames is the addition of a family name in the possessive form before an existing placename, Middle English Summers Kepe or Early Modern English Summers Keep can be justified as a plausible placename." Since we're already playing stunt construction with the Wyldwood portion, we may need to think of documenting Wyldwood as a surname in order to abide by the provisions of the precedent. (IGI batches getting hits for Wildwood are either OOP or a bad batch.) If we can support Wildwood, the i/y exchange is a no-brainer, but it would need to be Wildwoods Keep.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-05-13 04:46:28
I agree with you, Adelaide. I also haven't had much luck finding Wildwood as a surname either.

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 11:06:10
R&W states "Nicknames formed with a compound of wild- were common." and attests <William Wyldeblood> to 1366 (sn Wildblood, p492), but that's the only example I saw that didn't use something animate.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-05-16 07:43:06
From the OED via my library, wildwood, n... A forest of natural growth, or allowed to grow naturally; an uncultivated or unfrequented wood. (In later use chiefly poet.)

attrib.
a1568 in Bannatyne MS (Hunterian Club) 291/73 Ane heklit hud maid of the wyld wode sege.
a1616 Shakespeare Cymbeline (1623) iv. ii. 392 When With wild wood-leaues & weeds, I ha' strew'd his graue.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-23 13:50:54
Rohese found some people with surname Wildwood in period, but the Family Search batches were I batches and not useable. We think that the surname is plausible, and Wyldwood's (or Wyldwode's) Keep should be registerable. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Aria Gemina Mala at 2016-04-29 05:37:46
I believe this loose, very open Laurel wreath which only comes halfway up the charge is not acceptable as per current policy, but I'm rubbish at precedent diving so can't find the ruling. Can someone else, please?

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 10:40:09
Can not locate a precedent, but the following is from the PicDic "In mundane armory, laurel wreaths were almost always drawn in an annular form (full circle), but we also find examples drawn in a penannular form (with a small opening to chief); Society armory typically uses the penannular form." http://mistholme.com/dictionary/wreath/

1: Image 1

Sara Penrose (Sable Roundel) at 2016-04-30 20:20:17
I don't think we can just call these chevronels, because of the way they terminate before they reach the line of division. Can they be blazoned as "chevronels couped"?

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 12:11:28
No, because they terminate at the edges for the outer traits. The easiest fix is to extend the inner traits into the nocks in the battlements, as it should have been drawn.

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 11:41:10
Concur with redraw proposal by Adelaide, but it should require a second petition.

1: Image 1

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-23 13:54:54
Agree that the laurel wreath is not the right shape. The pieces are not even connected on the bottom, and there is too much room between the top parts. Also agree that the chevronels should reach the partition line at all points. We think this would be less awkward if the emabattled line were drswn with a shorter wavelength and about twice as great an amplitude, even if that necessitates shrinking the head and wreath a bit. No conflicts found.


2: Wyldwood Keep -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Azure, a savage's head couped affronty Or

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

[Asterisk : blazon on form is Azure, a savage head Or.]

Badge Comments:

Aria Gemina Mala at 2016-04-29 05:38:21
blazon fu:a savage's head cabossed.

Sara Penrose (Sable Roundel) at 2016-04-30 20:29:32
Cabossed is used when no neck is visible. To me, this image looks like the neck is visible, so couped would be accurate.

Arwyn of Leicester at 2016-04-30 13:47:04
Consider this: Stockholm, city of (reblazoned via Caid Feb 2006) Azure, a king's head couped affronty and crowned Or. Important non-SCA arms.

Crown maybe a "maintained charge" for one DC. Not sure if the savage and a kings head is enough of a difference. See graphic below.

Arwyn of Leicester at 2016-04-30 13:51:27
Here's the graphic

1: Image 1

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2016-05-11 12:29:41
This is a conflict. The arms of Stockholm depict (Saint) King Eric IX (1120-1160). From a heraldic standpoint, it's a blue field with a gold man's head and spiky bits sticking up from it. If they made the leaves proper (vert) they might have a better argument.

1: Image 1

Tostig Logiosophia (Actuarius) at 2016-05-14 11:18:54
(Edited) A "savage's head" is a period charge http://mistholme.com/dictionary/head-humans/ so versus City of Stockholm I see only 1 DC for change to type of head. (Note: Facing to dexter, like the default orientation, seems clear)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-05-23 13:55:33
Agree that there's a conflict vs. Stockholm.


Thank you for your time and attention.


OSCAR counts 1 Branch Name, 1 Device and 1 Badge. There are a total of 3 items submitted on this letter.