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Northshield ILoI dated 2018-09-25

Greetings unto Baron Iohannes Glenfidanus, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield September Internal Letter. Comments are due by October 20, 2018.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:26:22
Comments under my name on this letter are the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, consisting this month of Mistress Brigida von München, Gold Falcon Herald, Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant, Lord Berndt der Kühne, and myself.

1: Adriana Rose Berry -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

All name elements are sourced from Family Search.

Adriana <Adriana> Leasure, Female, Christening Date 27 Aug 1633, London, England, Batch C02230-2 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL52-RR6)

Rose - <Rose> Abernathie, Female, Christening Date 03 Oct 1619, Northumberland, England, Batch P00429-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5TS-WMF)

Berry - Joane <Berry>, Female, Christening Date 1624, Hertford, England, Batch P00808-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2R-LNB)

Double given names are permitted per SENA Appendix A

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-09-26 05:13:50
Just checking: Does the submitter want to be from a hill called Roseberry? I think we can manage "Rosebery"!

The Gazetteer of England's Place-Names has:
sn. Roseberry Topping
http://placenames.org.uk/index.php/browse/mads/epns-deep-05-c-mappedname-000451
Ounsbery or Rosebery Topping 1610
A Dictionary of British Place Names by A.D. Mills has:
sn. Rubery
Robery Hills 1650.
`Rough mound or hill'. OE rūh + beorg.

But also "Bery" shows up when referring to fortifications (Old English burh) with:
sn. Berrynarbor
Biria c.1150
Bery Narberd 1244
`(Place at) the fortification'. OE burh (dative byrig) + manorial affix from the Nerebert family, here in the 13th cent.

sn. Sudbury
Sudberie 1086
Suthbery 1282
`southern fortification', OE sūth + burh (dative byrig).

sn. Oldbury
Ealdebery 1302.
`old fortification or stronghold', OE (e)ald + burh (dative byrig).

With a manorial affix of the Rose family:
R&W sn. Rose
Robert, Peter Rose 1302, 1327
Robert de la Rose 1242

Would that be enough for Rosebery, if that's what the submitter wants?

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-10-06 11:51:44
Are you saying the submitted form of this name is not acceptable?

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-06 15:54:00
Sorry, not at all! Just that if the submitter wants to be from a place called "Roseber(r)y," then it is an option.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:27:15
Docs check out. No conflicts found.


2: Eyja Bassadottir -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.

All elements are found in Geir Bassi

Eyja - feminine given name found on p 9

Bassadottir - Patronymic composed of masculine given name <Bassi> found on p 8 following rules on p 17.

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-09-26 18:13:15
The name is correctly formed.

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:21:29
Docs check, no conflict noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:27:31
No conflicts found.


3: Eyricke Rycard -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Northshield LoI of October 31, 2017 as submitted.

Gules, a chamfron and a chief embattled Or

Submission History: Previous submission was returned on the June 2018 LOAR as follows:

"Eyricke Rycard. Device. Per bend sinister embattled gules and Or, a chamfron Or and a roundel per fess embowed counter-embowed sable and argent charged with two roundels in fess counterchanged.

This device is returned for lack of documentation of what has previously been blazoned as a t'ai-chi." (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/06/18-06lar.html#Northshield_returns19)

Device Comments:

Vémundr Syvursson at 2018-09-28 17:59:16
I believe this to be free of conflict.

Nearest I can find are Gisele Maria Overton, Per pale vert and purpure, a chamfron Or. Clear by change in field and addition of secondary.

Gabriel of Worsted, Per pale rayonny sable and gules, in fess a chamfron between a pair of drinking horns, the sinister inverted Or. Clear by change in field and change in secondary/secondaries.

Everything else I could find is further off. Nice design!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:28:05
Nitpick: the embattlements should be no taller than they are wide. No conflicts found.


4: Hradi bjarnylr -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 11th c Norse.
Language (Norse) most important.

All elements are found in Geirr Bassi

Hradi - masculine given name found on p 11

bjarnylr - Norse nickname meaning 'bear warmth'. Found on p 20

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-09-26 18:15:10
Let's get the documentation correct. The given name is <Hraði> .

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-04 21:55:52
So with the typo or misreading corrected, the submission should be

<Hraði bjarnylr>

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:27:50
From the Runnamnslexikon: Hraði mn. Fda. Rathi (äv. som binamn), fvn. Hraði (äv. som binamn) Av best. formen av adj. (fvn.) hraðr 'rask, snabb'. Nom. (r)aþi DR263 $ Ack. raþa DR77 Litt.: Lind sp. 564, Kousgård Sørensen 1958 s. 104, 260.

And bjarnlyr looks like it's Landnamabok, so this name should be authentic.


5: Hrafnrún Úlfriðardóttir -New Name

No major changes.

Hrafnrún - feminine Old Norse given name constructed of the following elements:

The first element Hrafn- is identical with Old Icelandic hrafn, "raven". (See Hrafnhildr (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#h)

The second element -rún is from OW.Norse rún, itself derived from Germanic *rúnó, with an original sense of "secret, hidden knowledge". As a second element -rún should be understood as having the meaning, "she who possesses hidden knowledge". See Alfrún (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#run)

Úlfriðardóttir - Old Norse matronymic constructed as follows:

The first element Úlf- is identical to Old Icelandic úlfr, "wolf". See Úlfeiðr (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#Ulf)

The second element -fríðr is from the OW.Norse adjective fríðr "beautiful" in the original sense of "beloved" and related to the OW.Norse verb frjá "to love". See Áfríðr (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#fridr)

In creating a matronymic, the genitive case of Úlfriðar is created and -dóttir is appended.

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-09-25 23:44:30
The offered documentation is incomplete. http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN1B2b, "Constructed Name Phrases", declares: "We generally require at least three examples to consider something a pattern, as sometimes a single name phrase can create the appearance of a pattern that does not actually exist."

So, from Gunnvǫr Orle's site, each element thrice, if possible--which it turns out not to be.

<Hrafn-> as prototheme. I posted on the Facebook SCA Heraldry Unofficial Chat at https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat/permalink/10156914136524203/. Mistress ffride immediately pointed out we need three examples of the target gender. With the cited <Hrafnhildr>, f., as the only one we can find, <Hrafn-> doesn't work.

However, three commenters there came up separately with <Hrafna-Rúna>, combining an attested prepended byname, <Hrafna-> (Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "Viking Bynames found in the Landnámabók", http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html) with an attested given name, <Rúna> (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#r).

(We can ignore <-rún> as a deuterotheme, even though we can support it with the cited <Alfrún> plus <Ingirún>, <Olrún>, and <Úlfrún>, among others--all f.--because we can't adequately support <Hrafn-> as a prototheme, and therefore can't use <Hrafnrún>.)

<Úlf-> as prototheme. The cited <Úlfeiðr> plus <Úlfhildr> and <Úlfrún>, all f. (The dozen m. examples don't count.)

<-fríðr> as deuterotheme. The cited <Áfríðr> plus <Arnfríðr>, <Ásfríðr>, <Auðfríðr>--and those are only those beginning A.

Submitter can have two bynames that can apply separately to the same person--which 'raven' and somebody's daughter clearly can! So I urge submitting <Hrafna-Rúna Úlfriðardóttir>.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-09-26 05:15:41
I may be more-than-slightly biased, but I agree with Gerard's conclusion.

Also, Gerard, please just "ffride" is fine. No fancy title fru-fru needed. :)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-04 21:57:25
Well, o-kayyyy! (But I'll still call him Maister Iago, since he always calls me Lord Gerard.) ;->

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-09-26 18:17:16
I participated in that discussion, and concur. <Hrafna-Rúna Úlfriðardóttir> is what we agreed was registerable. Note that the last part is a matronymic.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:29:07
Docs check out. This reminds me yet again that ravens and wolves are far more popular in the Society than they were in period when they were best known as the scavengers of battlefields. No conflicts found.


6: Isabelle de Montfort de Bretange -New Name & New Device

Quarterly purpure and azure, a dragonfly between three mullets argent and a bordure ermine

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Isabelle - French feminine given name dated to 16th c found in "Given Names from Brittany, 1384-1600" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/latebreton.html)

de Montfort - is found in "French Surnames from Paris, 1421, 1423 & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html)

de Bretange - dated to 1489 found in "Late Period French Surnames (used by women)" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/latefrenchsurnames.html)

Per SENA Appendix A, given+byname+locative is an acceptable order for French names.

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-09-26 05:16:53
Isn't this <Isabelle><locative><locative>? Do we have evidence for French names having two locatives?

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:30:25
This is indeed 2 locatives, and no, there is not an attested double locative pattern. Client should be advised that this construction does not work.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-09-28 07:24:59
This appears to be a double locative. However, later in the gray period Montfort is found as an inherited surname: Raymond Montfort France, Haute-Garonne, Toulouse, Church Records Name Raymond Montfort Event Type Burial Event Date Nov 1633 Event Place Dalbade, Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France Gender Male -- "France, Haute-Garonne, Toulouse, registres paroissiaux, 1539-1793," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPSX-HW7T : 5 April 2018), Raymond Montfort, Nov 1633; citing Burial, Dalbade, Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France, Archives municipales de Toulouse (Municipal Archives of Toulouse), France. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-04 22:27:53
Not necessarily.

Checking https://fr.wikipedia.org/ finds the locale name <Montfort> to be very widely duplicated, and that search finds 10 communes named something-de-Bretagne, hyphenated in modern usage. So it seems possible to construct a hypothetical <Montfort de Bretagne> for submitter to be from. This does perhaps suggest a family of Breton comtes de Montfort, but probably none are important enough to protect under our rules.

Going a simpler route, I'd suggest <Isabelle Montfort de Bretagne>, except our sources are stubbornly refusing to provide <Montfort> without <de>! Even R&W doesn't show it for English.

Juetta Copin at 2018-09-27 01:39:13
The article actually has the spelling Breta_gn_e.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-04 22:02:03
So fixing the mistranscription

<Isabelle de Montfort de Bretagne>

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:33:19
I think the blazon would be clearer as "…between three mullets argent, a bordure ermine." No conflicts found.


7: Isolda Kingswood -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2016, via Northshield.

Per pale purpure and Or, a dragon couchant argent and a bordure sable

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:33:39
No conflicts found.


8: Lia of Blackmore -New Name & New Device

Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated sable and on a point azure, an open book argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound (lee-ah) most important.
Meaning (black/dark water) most important.

Lia - dated to 1191 in "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames, Part Three: The Names H-Z" by Talan Gwynek (https://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyHZ.html)

"This has the appearance of being a hyp. of some Lat name, but it remains obscure.

Lia 1191 Bristow"

of Blackmore - locative found in "Middle English Bynames in Early Fourteenth-Century London" by Sara L. Uckelman (www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/bynames1319.tex)

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-09-26 05:21:48
So it's clearer what Talan's referring to:
R&W sn. Bristow
Lia de Bristou 1191

I don't see an example of "Blackmore" in Sara's article, but R&W does have:
sn. Blackmore
Baldewin de Blakomor 1200
Nicholas de Blakemore 1307
John Blakemore 1547
Henry Blackmore 1576
From Blackmoor (D, Do, Ha), Blackmore (Ess, Herts, W, Wo), or Blakemoor (D).

The Lingua Anglica form of "Lia de Blakomor" would be "Lia of Blackmore."

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:35:58
Docs check out. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:36:21
The point is a bit large, bordering on a per chevron field division. No conflicts found either way.


9: Muirenn Bhallach -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Marina of Bluelake(6/1993), Morina Felix (12/1997)

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Irish) most important.

Muirenn - Middle Irish Gaelic (c900-c1200) form found in "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Muirenn" by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Muirenn.shtml)

Bhallach - descriptive byname meaning "the freckled" found in "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Descriptive Bynames found in Feminine Names" by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/DescriptiveBynames.shtml)

"Bhallach ("[the] Freckled")

U3 U1463.11 Graíne Ballach, ingen Aedha Meg Uidhir"

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:34:28
Docs check, construction per SENA Appendix A given+descriptive for Old/Middle Gaelic checks, no conflicts noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:38:58
Docs check out except that the surname is not documented with the "Bh-" spelling. This just squeaks in under the 500-year rule with Muirenn dating from 979 and Bhallach from 1463. No conflicts found.


10: Thadeus Borchardt -New Name & New Device

Per bend sinister azure and argent, a demi stag rampant and an anchor fouled counterchanged

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Thadeus - masculine German given name dated to 1439 found in "German Names from Kocise, 1307 - 1505" by Guntram von Wolkenstein (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/kosice.htm)

1439 Thadeus Schynnagel

Borchardt German byname found in Family Search:

Elisabeta <Borchardt>, Female, Christening Date 12 Jan 1603, Preussen, Germany, Batch C96885-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NCGR-977)

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:36:06
Docs and construction checks. No conflicts noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:39:50
Docs check out. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-09-25 22:07:17
What's that thing the stag is issuing from?

I'm not enthused about the cable on the anchor having no contrast.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-09-25 22:31:11
It looks like a torse.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-09-26 00:35:35
Looks like a torse to me, too--presumably picked up along with the demi-stag from examples of crests. This may be legal, although the only previous example of "from a torse" on a field was for Roger de Bremble's device (Oct 1981), Per pale sable and gules, issuant from a torse argent and sable a demi-lion erect argent, grasping in its dexter paw a sprig of bramble vert, fimbriated argent.

However, I believe the Kingdom heralds really need to counsel submitter on this one so that he doesn't unintentionally end up registering what many will assume is a joke!

Regarding the cable, its having no contrast with the field subjects it to the stricture of http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/08/15-08cl.html#6, that "A held or conjoined charge which is not identifiable will render the design unregisterable. A charge may be rendered unidentifiable through the usual methods, including reduction in size, poor contrast, etc." I believe that's as returnable at this level as would be, say, Argent, a bend Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-09-26 00:38:36
Blazon for the return letter, if issued:

Per bend sinister azure and argent, a demi-stag issuant from a torse argent and an anchor azure fouled of its cable argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:43:50
No conflicts found. The anchor is "fouled of its cable." Agree that the demi-stag seems to be issuant from a torse which is bendwise sinister. We'd be happier if the torse were removed. Can the cable be tinctured something with some contrast?


11: Theophania Whitacres -New Name & New Device

Argent, upon a hanging balance purpure two open books sable

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound (Thee-oh-FAH-nee-ah WHIT-aker) most important.

Theophania - is dated to 1206 in "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames - Theophania" by Talan Gwynek (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Theophania)

Whitacres - is an English surname dated to 1523, found in "Bynames Found in the 1523 Subsidy Roll for York and Ainsty - (sorted alphabetically)" by Karen Larsdatter (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/york16/bynamesalphabetically.htm)

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:41:08
Docs check. Pronunciation for the byname would be Wit-akers. No conflicts noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:44:19
Docs check out. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:47:02
No conflicts found. The blazon implies that the books are a tertiary group on the balance. How about "Argent, a hanging balance purpure maintaining in each pan an open book sable"?


12: Ulfhildr þegjandi -New Alternate Name

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in June of 2009, via Northshield.

Ulfr þegjandi

Primary name registered in June 2009, via Northshield

All name Elements found in Geirr Bassi

Ulfr - masculine given name, p 15

þegjandi - nickname meaning 'silent', p 29

Alternate Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-09-26 18:43:37
The byname is already registered to the submitter, so that is neutral here. Alternate given name checks. No conflicts noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-17 13:47:18
No conflicts found.


Thus ends the September Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 9 Names, 1 Alternate Name and 6 Devices. There are a total of 16 items submitted on this letter.