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Northshield Kingdom ILoI dated 2016-12-21

Greetings unto Honourable Lady Merideth NiShionniach, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield December Internal Letter. Comments are due by January 20, 2017.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:00:12
Comments on this letter represent the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, consisting this month of Lady Brigida von Muenchen, Purple Falcon Herald, Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant, Lady Gwenhevere Maynes, Deodar Pursuivant, Lady Eimear de Culfre, and myself.

1: Asný Hálfdanardóttir -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Northshield LoI of November 30, 2016 as submitted.

Argent, on a heart purpure a triquetra argent

Submission History: Previous submission of a badge '(Fieldless) On a heart purpure, a valknut argent' was withdrawn from the October 2016 Northshield kingdom letter because the submitter wished to change the secondary charge from a valknut to a triquetra. Submitter also learned that hearts, per Dec 2013 precedent, may not be registered as charged fieldless badges, as they are considered mediums of heraldic display. Clever submitter. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=69438)

Device Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 16:28:23
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 16:44:07
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:00:30
No conflicts found.


2: Astridr gyðja -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Astrid Towers(5/1986), Ástríðr Hoga (12/2010)

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Astridr is a feminine given name found in GB on p 8

gyðja is an Old Norse nickname found in GB on p 22

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-22 21:26:23
Unless you have evidence to overturn recent precedent, expect this name to be returned. From http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2014/01/14-01lar.html#63 for Hrefna Gyðja:

Previously, we declined to rule on whether the byname gyðja is presumptous [Solveig Gyðja Christiansdottir, May 2003 LoAR]. Cleasby and Vigfusson, s.v. gyðja give the meanings "a goddess" and "a priestess". They also state that it is used in nicknames such as "Þuríðr gyðja, Th. the priestess", and in compounds like "blót-gyðja, hof-g., a temple priestess["]. Orle stated that, "Among the Viking Age heathens, gyðia implies conducting rites, probably sacrificial rites, and is a claim to a special relationship with one or more gods. Gyðia may also be a claim to prophetic powers." She also noted that this religious title is used by modern Norse heathens. Therefore, this name is returned for presumption under SENA PN.4.C, Claim of Powers.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 07:55:16
I believe I have seen <spakona> argued as an acceptable substitute that means a woman having the intended position in her community but does not claim in inherently undemonstrable powers. Can anyone verify this? (Our only registration was in 1987.)

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 01:39:32
However - In the Landnámabók there are two human, and non-goddess women, with typically human-sounding patronymics:

"Þorlaugu gyðju dóttur sína Oddi Ýrarsyni" translated as "Þorlaug gyðja daughter of Oddi Ýrarson". "Þuríði gyðju, dóttur Sölmundar í Ásbjarnarnesi" or "Þuríðr gyðja, daughter of Sólmundr of Ásbjarnarnes"

http://www.snerpa.is/net/snorri/landnama.htm

<spakonna> would run into the same sort of issue, as <spae> refers to divining or foretelling - spaekonna, spakonna translates to spaewife, a female fortuneteller - which is more of a direct claim to powers than Gyðja, or "priestess" (disregarding for this purpose the other interpretation of "goddess".

However -- "clerica appears as a Latin occupational byname for a female religious dated to the 12th century in Cartulaire de L'Abbaye de St-Georqes de Rennes (https://archive.org/details/cartulairedelabb00renn), at page 158-159 (photocopy provided). The byname is not capitalized in the original source.

As support for a female clerical occupational byname, the submitter noted that the feminine occupational term clergesse (meaning women cleric/clergy person) appears in "Occupational By-Names in the 1292 Tax Role of Paris" by Colm Dubh (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/parisbynames.html)." ~~ [2014] https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=41312

If we allow Clerica, then we should not reject similar religious titles outside of Christian practice, wherein a pagan Gyðja/priestess would certainly be a plausible occupational byname.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-08 04:20:20
THERE we are! A gentle who had a badge returned on the most recent LoAR previously registered an alternate name <Hrefna Spákona>, with an acute accent (which is why I didn't find it when I searched), at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/10/15-10lar.html#206 (Oct 2015):

This byname (and the occupation it is derived from) refers to real women who did real things. As such, it is not an unmistakable claim to magical powers. It is parallel to the Norse byname sjóna, ruled registerable in August of 2008, and Gaelic bynames with similar meanings, ruled registerable in December 1997.
This would be similar to the meaning of <Clerica> in later France.

<Hrefna Spákona> thus joined <Wulfrun Spakona> (Feb 1987), no accent, in the O&A.

Whereas <Hrefna Gyðja> was returned at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2014/01/14-01lar.html#63 (Jan 2014):
Orle stated that, "Among the Viking Age heathens, gyðia implies conducting rites, probably sacrificial rites, and is a claim to a special relationship with one or more gods. Gyðia may also be a claim to prophetic powers." She also noted that this religious title is used by modern Norse heathens.
And there is a previous obiter dictum in http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2003/05/03-05lar.html s.n. Solveig Gyðja Christiansdottir (returned):
The doubts about the usage might be enhanced (and possibly raise an issue of presumption) since Zoega's Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic (p. 176) shows its [the byname gyðja's] primary meaning as "goddess" with "priestess" only secondary.
Unless Boar, or someone else, can show that Pelican's distinction between the two bynames' meanings is capricious--which cannot be ruled out--I would urge the submitter to settle for <Ástríðr Spákona> or <Astriðr Spakona> as preferred.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-01-08 20:26:50
Your persistence is much appreciated. Submitter has indicated that she is willing to change her choice of byname to <spakona> and resubmit.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-08 21:38:06
Gee, and I didn't even show the lower-case options, which I should've. ;->

Very seriously, I'm glad whenever I'm evaluated as persistent rather than bull-headed.

Moreover, if submitter could make a cogent argument for <gyðja>, I'd do my bit to assist her. However, I know none of us want to see another case like those I've run across recently where a submitter appeals, gets handed the no-new-evidence yellow card by Laurel, and perhaps finally gets something they want more months later than necessary.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-12-24 06:03:37
The submitter is going to have (some) trouble with the given name, too. It's Ástríðr in Geirr Bassi, or Astriðr. It would only be a minor change, I suspect.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 16:31:24
I didn't find any conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:04:07
What's actually found in GB is "Ástríðr". It's allowable to remove the accents if all are removed. We also noted the problem with the surname. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-19 16:54:04
However, it's not allowable to misread "Astriðr" as "Astridr" (the form in the head matter), even though fatally easy for modern English readers. That's the point Mistress ffride was making.

Submission is thus expected to be <Astriðr spakona>.


3: Caiterina Morgaine -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Catriona Morgan(2/2012)

Per pall vert, azure and gules, a pall Or between three triquetra within and conjoined to an annulet argent

No major changes.
Language most important.
Spelling ('Cait' and 'Morgaine') most important.

Caiterina - 'Index of Names in Irish Annals: Caitríona' by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Caiterina.shtml) and OCM p. 45 s.n. Caiterína

Morgaine - 'Surnames in Durham and Northumberland, 1521-1615' by Julie Kahan (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/parish/surnames_m.html)

Morgaine GAI 1608

Name Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 16:40:36
The name found in the first soiurce is "Caiterína", but SENA Appendix A allows Gaelic names to drop accents if done throughout the name. Appendix C allows mixing Gaelic and English/Welsh 1100-1600. Thus, the name is documented and acceptably formed.

I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 16:54:18
Verified documentation - no conflicts found. I agree with Lions Heart about the dropped accent.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:05:28
Docs check out. Not good on name conflict, but OSCAR's nomination of Catriona Morgan looks as though it might be correct. The two names are almost identical in pronunciation.

Device Comments:

Brenna Lowri o Ruthin at 2016-12-22 20:16:56
Unfortunately, this lacks good contrast. Per pall and per pall inverted should have two parts metal or two parts color with the third part being either color or metal.

Section A.3.B. b. Elements Divided in Three Parts: Elements divided per pall or per pall inverted must have one part that has good contrast with the other two parts. No two parts may share a background tincture, but a part may share a tincture with another part which is multiply divided as long as identifiability is maintained.

Hide Example For example, per pall azure, vert, and argent and per pall azure, vert, and checky sable and argent are both registerable. However, per pall azure, vert, and sable would not be registerable. Per pall argent, sable, and counter-ermine is also not registerable, as counter-ermine has a sable background tincture.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 16:46:09
I agree this violates that rule in SENA. If the field is changed (and nothing else), I don't see any conflicts that would arise.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-22 21:40:54
With the current (unacceptable) tinctures, the blazon would need to be:

Per pall vert, azure and gules, a pall Or between three triquetras each within and conjoined to an annulet argent

I am now asking on Facebook's SCA Heraldry Chat for examples that work the way this device does, because I do not believe that in period it would have been felt as failing to contrast.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-23 17:49:26
Permalink is https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat/permalink/10154957860269203/ Batonvert can't find or recall a pall combined with per pall in his period sources:

But I would argue that any rule that ends up requiring the designer to lay argent next to Or is not in the spirit of the contrast rule. It is only by applying the rule, not by looking at the device, that anyone can find good contrast is lacking. If Keythong feels she must return this, I'm sure she'll mention that the submitter may appeal to Laurel; or else we can send it up admitting the rule violation, linking the Facebook discussion, and requesting a modification of the rule so that three colors can be divided by a metal, as here.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-23 22:51:32
I would not recommend linking Facebook discussions in a documentation summary in OSCAR. Facebook requires that you have a Facebook account to see the discussion and the current Wreath sovereign of Arms, does not have Facebook.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 01:03:07
Thank you. I've summarized the result above, however, so the use of the permalink is merely to check up on my accuracy.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-23 22:58:20
This isn't a field divided by a metal charge, this a field with a metal charge on top. In order to go to laurel, this should have some documentation, showing a per pall field with all colors and a high contrast ordinary.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 01:01:39
I'm not claiming it's a field divided by a metal charge, since to the best of my belief there is no such thing. I'm claiming that a half-informed (i.e., rule-ignorant) viewer cannot see where there's color touching color, let alone color on color. And that if any of the three segments is made argent, they will see metal against metal. Thus my comments above.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-24 10:20:21
This was recently registered with an argent pall and gold on the field. No one mentioned anything about metal on metal during Laurel commentary.
Cathal Maclae The following device associated with this name was registered in April of 2015 (via the West): Per pall Or, gules, and sable, a pall argent between an owl wings displayed azure and two axes addorsed Or.

Using 3 colors on a per pall field is against our core rules, anything against our core rules requires an documentation to prove it was done in period.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 10:44:31
Correct. That one worked according to rule.

And as I noted above, Batonvert is fairly certain we're not going to find anything.

Please understand that the argument I'm making is based on principle, not period usage. It may well lose that way, but that's nevertheless its basis.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-24 19:14:08
I understand your argument but I don't think it is a valid one. To send this submission up without some documentation for an Individually attested pattern, I think it a great disservice to the submitter. I don't think we should make the submitter wait 6 months for a return for something that is a clear violation of our rules.

Wreath isn't going to call for extra discussion unless there is a valid reason, such as documentation showing it was done in period.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 22:46:37
If no one else finds it persuasive, then it would indeed be foolish thus to penalize the submitter.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 22:49:05
But given that, I wish we could offer a workable revision that was likely to please the submitter.

Gustav Kellermeyer at 2017-01-13 18:23:52
I have to agree with Michael on this one. If the rule says this field has poor contrast, then the rule is wrong. There is clearly good contrast in this instance. I understand that the good visual contrast is only due to the metallic pall. and that is why there should be a specific addendum to the three colors prohibition (unless the line of division is overlaid with a charge having good contrast to all region of the field) As to historicity of the design, that is a completely separate issue.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-13 19:24:07
Concur with Gustav Kellermeyer as to his wording for an amendment.

Irrelevant P.S.: Do call me Gerard. I'm one of those intensely irritating people who goes by his middle name.

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 01:59:10
Granted this was passed under old rules, but I'd like to know if any documentation was provided at the time:

Mathias Sicco von Hagen The following device associated with this name was registered in July of 1982 (via the West): Per pall inverted vert, azure, and sable, a pal (blazon terminated in OandA)

1: Image 1

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 02:00:19
Granted this was passed under old rules, but I'd like to know if any documentation was provided at the time:

Mathias Sicco von Hagen The following device associated with this name was registered in July of 1982 (via the West): Per pall inverted vert, azure, and sable, a pal (blazon terminated in OandA)

From West Kingdom Roll of Arms: Per pall inverted vert, azure, and sable, a pall inverted and in dexter chief a unicorn salient argent, winged Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-02 02:43:06
Procedural point: http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_complexb.cgi?w1=1&m1=blazon+pattern&p1=Per+pall+inverted+vert%2C+azure%2C +and+sable%2C finds "Per pall inverted vert, azure, and sable, a pall inverted and in dexter chief a unicorn salient argent, winged Or" without truncation. If you're looking in the Index instead of what I call the O&A, you need to look in both, rather than having to depend on rolls of arms.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2017-01-02 22:40:41
I sent Shauna an email asking if there was any documentation provided with the submission. Since it was a submission from 1982, I seriously doubt there is going to be any.

Prior registration is no guarantee of current registration, We are not bound to repeat prior mistakes. Under SENA and the previous rules set (Rules for Submission) A 3 color pall would not be allowed.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-19 17:05:17
As I said, I was only making a procedural point on how to get the whole blazon, not claiming more than Boar did in her comment.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2017-01-02 23:35:02
Shauna quickly responded to say, that no documentation was provided with the Mathias submission.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:07:35
The plural of triquetra is triquetrae. One of the problems with modifying this to meet the contrast rules, is that if one part of the field is changed to argent, the annulet and triquetra on that part can't be argent, so will have to be a color. No conflicts found as it stands.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-19 17:21:51
No, the Latinate plural is "triquetrae", while the English-style is indeed "triquetras"; this sort of variation goes on with many, perhaps most, Latin borrowings. In our O&A, "triquetras" predominates over "triquetrae" by about 6 to 1. And for what it's worth, "Triquetras" is what the OED shows Sir John Ferne using in his 1586 The blazon of gentrie.

So the word as submitted is correct.

Now, are we and submitter willing to make a test case of this and send up Lord Gustav's proposal above?

In support of which, building on Green Anchor's point here: Suppose the tinctures in the top section reversed, giving a green charge on an argent segment. Does the result really look any more like period heraldry than the submission does? Particularly given that it's only our rules as written that are permitting the pall on the per-pall field, which never seems to occur in period?


4: Ciana Scolari de Polcenigo -New Name & New Device

Azure, an elephant rampant maintaining in its trunk a goblet argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Northern Italian 1200-1400 CE) most important.
Culture (Northern Italian 1200-1400 CE) most important.

Ciana is found in 'Feminine Given Names from the Online Catasto of Florence of 1427' by Arval Benicoeur (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/catasto/)

Scolari is found in 'Family Names Appearing in the Catasto of 1427' (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ferrante/catasto/family_names.html)

Polcenigo is an Italian city found on a map dated to 1620 at Old Maps Online (http://www.oldmapsonline.org/map/cuni/821594) See Image #1, below.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1123/2016-12-20/10-48-46_Name_Doc.JPG

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-12-22 05:09:22
Polcenigo - Dizionario di toponomastica. Storia e significato dei nomi geografici italiani. (Dictionary of place names. History and meaning of the Italian geographical names) UTET Libreria, p. 594, s.n. Polcenigo, "Il toponimo è attestato nell'a. 930 'castello de Paucinico', a. 1012 'de Paucenico', a. 1204 'Warnerius de Pulcinico', ecc. È una formazione prediale col suffiso -īcus dal personale latino Pulcinius o da una forma Paucinius, presupposta dalle attestazioni antiche." A translation, "The name is attested in the year 930 'castle of Paucinico', year 1012 'of Paucenico', year 1204 'Warnerius de Pulcinico', etc. It is a farming formation with the suffix -īcus from the personal latin Pulcinius or of the form Paucinius, presupposed by the old attestations."

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 16:54:28
The documentation checks out. According to SENA Appendix A:

Locative bynames in the northern and central areas normally take the form da X, but de X and di X are rarely found.
Also, it says this formation is acceptable.

I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:00:56
Verified documentation - no conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:08:33
Docs check out. If she wants authenticity, the toponymic might be spelled "de Pulcinico" per Maridonna's comment. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2016-12-31 17:00:09
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:02:34
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:09:02
No conflicts found. The goblet is so small as to be a bit difficult to quickly identify. There's room to enlarge it.


5: Clydwyn Gwehydd -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Northshield LoI of June 29, 2016 as submitted.

Argent, two bendlets engrailed sable

Submission History: Previous submission 'Argent, on a bend engrailed sable a sword argent' was returned on the September 2016 LOAR, via Northshield, for conflicting with Kriemhilt von Ebersberg: Argent, a bend fusilly sable. (https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=65506)

Device Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 16:13:42
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:04:55
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:09:28
No conflicts found.


6: Dobhrain U Caellaighi -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Deborah Inis Glas(7/1997)

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound (Doh-vuh-ruhn) most important.
Language (Celtic/Irish/Scottish) most important.

Dobhrain dated to 1035 in Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland, p 830 - original text & 831 - translation. See Image #1 below (https://archive.org/stream/annalsofkingdomo02ocleuoft#page/830/mode/2up)

(note: Dobhrain is original text, Dobhran is the translation)

U Caellaighi dated to 1035 in Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland, p 832 - original text & 833 - translation. See Image #2 below (https://archive.org/stream/annalsofkingdomo02ocleuoft#page/832/mode/2up)

(note: U Caellaighi is original text, O'Caellaighe is the translation)

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1123/2016-12-20/15-24-46_Dobhrain.JPG
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1123/2016-12-20/15-24-46_Caillaighi.JPG

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-12-24 06:04:20
"Dobhrain" is in the genitive case in the original text (The Annals of the Four Masters; M1035.5 in the CELT edition: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G100005B/text014.html). You can tell because of its position and function:

Cú Sléibhe, mac Dobhrain, tigherna Corca Fir Trí, d'écc.
which correlates to, in English (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100005B/text014.html):
Cusleibhe, son of Dobhran, lord of Corca-Firtri, died.
That makes what's submitted the equivalent of "Dobhran's".

Mari Elspeth nic Bryan's Index of Names in Irish Annals (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/index.shtml) indicates that:
"Artbrain" is the genitive of "Artbran",
"Anfudáin" is the genitive of "Anfudán",
"Briain" is the genitive of "Brian",
"Cadain" is the genitive of "Cadan", and
"Conligain" is the genitive of "Conligan",
so I'm fairly confident that "Dobhran" is, indeed, simply the nominative form of the desired given name, not an Anglicized one.


The submitted form of the byname does not seem to appear in the cited source. CELT gives (M1036.14, same URLs as above):
Muirchertach, mac Giolla Pháttraicc, tigherna Leithe Ossraighe, do mharbhadh d'ua Caellaighi dia muintir féin i f-fioll.
as the original text and
Muircheartach, son of Gillaphadraig, lord of half Osraighe, was treacherously slain by O'Caellaighe, one of his own people.
as the English equivalent. The submitter's source differs in its Gaelic presentation of the name only in that it gives "dUa" instead of "d'ua".

I don't know enough about medieval Irish declensions to say how the grammatical context has affected the name or what its base form is. Mari's Index (cited above) gives "Cellaig" as the standard Middle Irish Gaelic genitive and "Ceallaigh" as the standard Early Modern Irish Gaelic genitive of the name "Cellach" / "Ceallach", and Sharon L. Krossa's Quick and Easy Gaelic Names (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#clanaffiliationbyname) says:
The standard way to form a name using an Irish clan affiliation byname for men is:

<single given name> Ó <eponymous clan ancestor's name (in genitive case)>
That makes something like "Dobhran Ó Ceallaigh" look promising. Somebody with expertise in Gaelic should probably be consulted.

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 02:25:18
I'm several years away from my former Irish fluency, but I think Ui Ceallaigh might be the correct form. I'm checking with my former instructor to verify.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 16:30:23
The documentation might not be saying what the submitter thinks. I agree "Dobrain" is likely the genative, and "Dobran" the most likely nominative form thereof. "U" looks like an error to me, with "Ui" seeming to be the proper form.

I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:06:34
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:12:11
Agree with the others re the case of the given name. I don't even try to dig very deep into Gaelic anymore, so can't say if the surname is correctly formed here, and no one else had more to contribute. No conflicts found.


7: Eva of Greenfield -New Badge Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2008, via Northshield.

(Fieldless) A cat courant Or maintaining on its back a grenade fesswise reversed sable enflamed proper

Old Item: Vert, a cat courant Or maintaining on its back a grenade fesswise reversed sable enflamed proper and a chief embattled argent., to be released.

Badge Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 16:32:53
I didn't find any conflict.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2017-01-03 17:53:08
I believe this would be blazoned as (Fieldess) A domestic cat courant Or maintaining on its back a grenade fesswise reversed sable enflamed proper

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-03 21:39:34
Am I missing some difference between that and the offered blazon?

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:08:47
No conflict found on the cat with a jet pack. :)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:14:19
This makes a better badge than the previous version. No conflicts found. I wonder though: all the period pictures of this seem to have the grenade securely strapped to the cat's back rather than precariously balanced there. Is this a problem?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-19 17:35:03
It wasn't a problem for Eva of Greenfield at http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=57528 or for Katerine la rousse d'Anjou at http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=65361, both registered without comment. The head-matter on the LoI for the latter noted, "There are at least two instances of animals + grenades being registered with the CoH [viz., Eva's and a dove]. In both instances, the straps were omitted. Similarly, the shape of the grenade in both instances was the 'standard' heraldic grenade, so we felt it was better to go with what has previously been registered," rather than imitate the period (non-heraldic) illustration she cited, which happens to illustrate both a dove and a cat.


8: Falcon's Keep, Shire of -Resub Household Name

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 1992, via the Middle.

House of Falcon Gate

No major changes.
Sound most important.

Submission History: The previous submission <House of Falcon's Gate> was returned due to improper construction of the substantive elements. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=69806)

Household name for Shire of Falcon's Keep student group following the pattern of household designator + placename.

Designator - <House>

Substantive - <Falcon Gate> is a constructed place name (surname + toponymic) using the following elements:

Surname <Falcon> as identified in Family Search Georg Falcon, Male, Date Feb 1578, Essex,England, Batch M13795-3 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N266-GYB : 10 December 2014)

Toponymic <Gate> is found in Eckwall, 4th ed, p 193, s.n. "ON OSw gata 'a road', ME gate" and Eckwall, p 54, s.n. Botcherby "In Bothchergate -gate is ON gata 'road, street'."

Household Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-12-24 06:08:17
Do we have evidence for "House of Location" though?

I know "House at Location" is do-able:

From the household name submission Howse atte Foresteres Reache:
(http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=57042)

Howse atte -- For the substantive element, we wish for the house to be located at a place. There are examples of this construction of <house at><placename> such as:

MED sn. wevere: "...the wevers howse atte towre hylle..." (1479-81)
MED sn. dede: "Y be-quethe watkyn my sone the hous atte Caleys, and the dedys ther-with." (1387)

The Medieval Will of Willms Pyx, 1493 (http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/Wills/Bk12/151.htm Fig 4) has:
"...my howse atte Conet Gate in Ealding..."
"...my hows atte the Court gate..."


So House at Falcon Gate?

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2016-12-26 15:59:10
I am confident that the group would be agreeable to that. I would, of course, contact them to verify that.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-12-26 17:06:00
Ooooh, getting closer... "Manor of" [Location]!

A Brief, Incomplete, and Rather Stopgap Article about European Household and Other Group Names Before 1600: England - Manors by Sharon L. Krossa
(http://medievalscotland.org/names/eurohouseholds/englandmanors.shtml) has:

1423: "...the maner of Sutton."
(1448): "... the seid maner of Tymberlacke."
(c1465): "...the manor of Estchaldefeld."
(1470): "The manere of Tileshide...."

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 02:43:18
The Falcon is also an inn "of great importance prior to and during the 16th century," the Falcon gate was a named gate leading to the inn.

The History and Antiquities of Boston: And the Villages of Skirbeck, Fishtoft, Freiston, Butterwick, Benington, Leverton, Leake, and Wrangle; Comprising the Hundred of Skirbeck, in the County of Lincoln Pishey Thompson Longman, 1856 - Boston (England) https://books.google.com/books?id=ZY0NAAAAIAAJ&dq=Falcongate&source=gbs_navlinks_s

[https://books.google.com/books/content?id=ZY0NAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA207&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2opOgy4 lAGM-_RvfDivWG8H-pjAQ&ci=83%2C634%2C787%2C798&edge=0] and [https://books.google.com/books/content?id=ZY0NAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA208&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1hup7Ex qtRDpzof3AXBLD_lX5NAQ&ci=128%2C95%2C797%2C312&edge=0]

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 16:38:55
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:10:30
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:16:50
"Falcongate" looks better to me, and is supported a bit by the citation of Bothchergate. No one else in the group agreed. Other than that, this appears to be correctly constructed this time. No conflicts found.


9: Heliseus de Mort-Arbre -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound (Mort d'Arbor) most important.
Meaning (tree killer or dead trees) most important.

Heliseus is a masculine given name dated from 917-935 found in 'Medieval Spanish Names from the Monastery of Sahagun: The Names, First Group' by Antonio Miguel Santos de Borja (Tony Borning) (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/miguel/sahagun/sahagunNames1.html)

de Mort-Arbre is a constructed descriptive French byname based on the use of <de Morte-Mer> as a locative byname on p 85 of 'DRAFT: Names in the 1292 census of Paris' by Sara L. Uckelman (https://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/1292paris.pdf). The submitter wishes a byname meaning 'tree-killer' in the French language. This may need some assistance.

Appendix C permits combining Iberian/Spanish and French names.

Name Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 16:53:29
I'm not convinced "Morte-Mer" means "Sea Killer"---Google turns it into "Dead Sea", and other sources suggest "still/stagnant water". As well, it's possibly a form of the well known family name "Mortimer." Thus, I don't think the submitter has given cause to generalize to "tree killer" nor that "Morte" means "killer".

The documentation for Heliseus looks OK, and the combination of languages is allowed by SENA.

I didn't find any conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-03 22:45:31
If submitter accepts 'of the dead tree' as close enough to his desired meaning, no adjustment is necessary, assuming we consider it a plausible locative,

But since he has asked for assistance, I've consulted https://glosbe.com/fro/en/ (and https://glosbe.com/fro/en/, which it easily reverses to) along with http://www.godswatcher.com/dictionary.htm. I would suggest <Heliseus le murtrier d'arbres>, 'the killer/murderer of trees', which I take to be the intended sense of the offered 'tree killer'. The structure is that of <Andri le portéeur d'yaue>, <Tyfainne la florerresse de coiffes>, and others in the cited http://heraldry.sca.org/names/paris.html.

If he instead wishes to proclaim himself the bane of one particular tree, I would offer <Heliseus le murtrier d'arbre> on my rickety assumption that "de + le + arbre" = "du + arbre" = "d'arbre" in OF.

It is notable that all but one byname in http://heraldry.sca.org/names/parisbynames.html describes a remunerative occupation, and the exception, <houlier> 'low life', indicates the absence of one. However, the constructed byname might be considered a jocular descriptive under SENA Appendix A, if Old French onomastics behaved at all like Middle English's. Or would <Heliseus un murtrier d'arbre(s)> be more plausible for such use?

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:13:32
No conflicts found, although I agree with Lions Heart about Morte-Mer and Dead Sea vs Sea Killer.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:18:36
Given name doc checks out. To my ear, "de Mort-Arbre" doesn't meet the client's wish to sound like "Mort d'Arbor". In modern French at least, the former seems to mean "of death-tree". BTW, "de Morte-Mer" means "of the Dead Sea". The whole concept seems pretty unlikely. Rohese believes that as submitted it means "dead forest". No conflicts found. (No surprise.)


10: Iomhar de Brus -New Name & New Device

Per bend vert and azure, on a bend sable fimbriated an arrow upon an annulet argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Iomhar is masculine given name dated to 1501-1600 found in 'Scottish Gaelic Given Names: For Men' by Sharon Krossa (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/men.shtml)

de Brus is a byname found in RW, p 69, s.n. Bruce

'Richard <de Brus> 1274-5'

This name mixes name phrases from two regional naming groups that are listed in SENA Appendix C as able to be combined and those name phrases are dated to within 300 years of one another.

Name Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:04:20
The source for Iomhar shows it with an accent (Íomhar), but the accent may be dropped (according to SENA) so long as all accents are dropped, which is true of this submission.

I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:34:49
No conflicts found. Verified documentation.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:20:24
Name docs check out, but we need to find them within the 300-year limit. Agree with Lions Heart's comment on the given name.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-22 21:53:29
We don't seem to use "upon" that way in our blazons. Suggest either

Per bend vert and azure, on a bend sable fimbriated an arrow surmounting an annulet argent
or
Per bend vert and azure, on a bend sable fimbriated an annulet surmounted by an arrow argent

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-23 23:06:29
This device has two different tertiary charge groups on the bend. Each charge may only have one tertiary charge group per items as per SENA Appendix I C. Tertiary Charge Group: A tertiary charge group is a charge or group of charges which are entirely on another charge and are not on the field themselves. Tertiary charges may be found on other types of charge groups, including an overall charge group, but not on maintained charges.

A single charge group may only have one tertiary charge group on it. However, a piece of armory may have different tertiary charge groups on different underlying charge groups. Charges on tertiary charges are known as quaternary charges and are not allowed, unless documented as an Individually Attested Pattern.

The submitter could put the arrow and the annulet side by side, as long as they are equal visual weight, they would be part of the same charge group.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-24 01:04:27
What if the arrow pierces the annulet/the annulet enfiles the arrow? Does that unify them into a single group?

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:14:16
As it was explained to me; if the combination of charges were placed directly on a field, would they be co-primary, or a primary & a secondary, or a primary & an overall charge? If one could not say they would be co-primary in that situation, then they are two distinct tertiary charge groups, and not allowable.

Enfiling is, as I understand things, considered a particular arrangement of primary and secondary. Thus, no, I don't believe that would remove the problem.

Brenna Lowri o Ruthin at 2016-12-27 21:57:51
I do not see the arrow as a quaternary charge. I see it as an overall charge which would make in the same plane as the annulet - the same as an overall charge over an ordinary would be in the same plane as the ordinary. However, that would then make this two tertiary charge groups on the bend sinister which is another problem.

I have not seen any tertiary overall charges previously registered. I would like to see documentation for tertiary overall charges.

I think moving the arrow off the bend sinister completely and placing it bendwise would resolve this issue.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-03 22:49:56
In that case I would recommend converting it into two arrows.

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-12-27 22:39:26
the submitter may be okay with putting the arrow inside of the annulet.

The arrow isn't overall, in order to be overall it has to be on the field. I don't think we allow for surmounted charges on tertiary charges.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:10:44
As SENA, Appendix I, part C, says:

A single charge group may only have one tertiary charge group on it.
Thus, I'm afraid this needs to be returned.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-03 22:47:15
[Revised} I see that Lions Heart has considered and demolished the possibility broached above of unifying the charges into a single group.

Gustav Kellermeyer at 2017-01-13 19:12:48
To my way of thinking, as pretty as it is, the arrow upon annulet upon bend upon field makes an excessive number of layors (hence, complexity)

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-01-13 17:14:22
So before we try this, will having the arrow piercing the annulet work?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-13 19:15:55
Not if Lions Heart is correct above that "Enfiling is ... considered a particular arrangement of primary and secondary" and so the charges would remain two groups.

This is in fact established by precedent, viz., http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/07/09-07lar.html s.n. Andrew Crowe, discussing a bend ... enfiled of an annulet and declaring, "Enfiled charges are equivalent to overall charges because they visually surmount the enfiling charge." This is quoted with approval at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/12/12-12lar.html#219 s.n. Roibeard mac Sluaghadháin and applied to on a bend sinister ... a sheaf of arrows enfiling a coronet, analyzed as two tertiary groups and so not permitted--resolving the question here.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:25:51
Too bad that the idea of enfiling the annulet with the arrow has been shot down. That would be really easy for the client to redraw. No conflicts found.


11: James Griffin -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): James Griffin(7/1995), James Irvin (2/2004)

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

James Family Search: James Addams, Male, Burial Date 22 Apr 1561, Place: London, England, Batch B02101-3 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRX4-R6T : 24 December 2014)

Griffin Family Search: George Griffin, Male, Burial Date 22 Mar 1599, Place: London, England, Batch B00047-9 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLJ9-C28 : 24 December 2014)

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-22 22:00:07
Oscar found the identical name as a conflict, 7/1995. The easy fixes, depending on his period, would be to add a locative like "of London" or a descriptive like "the Stout"--or even add an adjective before the submitted name.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:14:50
I agree it's a conflict.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-01-05 11:22:41
The submitter will be adding "the Red" to this name.


12: Jon Jacob Ingleheimer Schmidt -New Name

FamilySearch.org Historical Records:

Jon - Jon Jost Bornfelt, Male, Marriage 05 Jun 1634, Rheinland, Prussia Batch Number: M98832-8 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JH86-98V : 26 December 2014)

Jacob - Jacob Eberhartt, Male, Marriage 26 Sep 1592, Germany, Batch Number: M91992-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NCK2-7LH : 26 December 2014)

Ingle - Barbara Ingle, Female, Marriage 17 Jun 1607, Baden Germany Batch Number: M00857-8 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J4VT-984 : 26 December 2014)

Schmidt - Schlemmer Schmidt, Male, Burial 28 Sep 1564, Bayern, Germany Batch Number: B96767-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7YK-6V9 : 28 November 2014)

SENA Appendix A allows double given names and double surnames in German. It is our hope that the addition of the unmarked occupational name can be registerable.

Ingleheimer is constructed as a locative for someone living at the Ingle (farm)house. The suffix -heim is used in German place names and means house/home. So if you have a person with the suffix -heimer in the name it means, that an ancestor of this person long time ago lived in a place like Mannheim, Oppenheim or whatever. When he moved to another place people called him the man from

Mannheim, Oppenheim etc, which is in German Mannheimer, Oppenheimer etc.

Examples of names with the suffix -heimer from Family Search:

Hainrich Dannheimer, Male, Marriage 21 Apr 1584, Zell (Oa. Kirchheim), Württemberg, Germany Batch Number: M91622-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NZG8-WC5 : 26 December 2014)

Maria Maunssheimer, Female, Marriage 24 Jan 1632, Germany Father: Hanss Maunssheimer Batch Number: M01260-8 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NZ3L-4VY : 26 December 2014)

Theobald Oppenheimer, Male, Marriage 04 Aug 1623, Rheinland, Prussia, Batch Number: M96275-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHSV-QRM : 26 December 2014)

Name Comments:

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2016-12-21 22:25:29
When even _I_ get the reference, it says something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_Jingleheimer_Schmidt

I'm afraid this name would yank me rather forcibly out of a medieval atmosphere.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-12-22 22:00:56
Concur. The song is available in multiple renditions at YouTube.

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 02:50:34
I concur.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:15:20
I, too, concur.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:39:42
When I first heard of this name, I chuckled, then had to remind myself this is not the April 1 ILOI. I agree it is obtrusively modern.

Gustav Kellermeyer at 2017-01-13 19:18:39
I concur, That would yank me out of the 16th century and leave the song ringing in my ears for the rest of the day

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-01-14 03:54:28
Me, too.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-01-11 22:12:18
Per SENA,

"A period name that has a modern referent will not generally be considered obtrusively modern."

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-12 00:28:56
However, the next sentence in http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN2E is, "Only extreme examples will be returned."

The examples of acceptable names with modern referents there are Edmond Fitzgerald, Red Boke Herald, Drew Steele, and Mould de Cheder. Its list of unaccepted period names with modern referents comprises Porsche Audi, Artemisian Tank Corps, and Geky Herald.

I believe this submission belongs with the latter three and other returns like
<Bubba le Fette> at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/07/16-07lar.html#192,
<Rat Bastard> at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2014/02/14-02lar.html#116,
<Roseia Bendyn Weyr>, referring to the locale Benden Weyr in the McCaffreys' Pern series, at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/03/13-03lar.html#135,
<Belching Tom Tupper of Ware> on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/06/10-06lar.html s.n. Colm Kile of Lochalsh,
<Handi Camp>, a household name, at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/07/15-07lar.html#232, and
<Samuel Spede Bumpus> on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/03/12-03lar.html,
as not only "destroy[ing] medieval ambience and drag{ging] the average person mentally back to the present day" but being likely to give rise to earworms.

Compare these with the challenged <Greyhound Pack>, accepted as a household name on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/01/02-01lar.html s.n. Elizabeth Curry, and <Best Pickel Ambberger>, accepted at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/08/16-08lar.html#120. (All right, that last one still surprises me; I would not have held it comparable to <Mould de Cheder> as Laurel did, given that my persona would get the latter as a joke but have to consult my modern self for the former.)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-13 19:20:18
Among others; I maintain a list of accepted joke names I'll be glad to share if anyone thinks it will be helpful here.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-01-13 22:09:52
Finally formulated the argument better, while I was tossing the aluminum cans into the recycle bin w/ that blasted jingle thrumming quietly in the back of my brain, and hope y'all won't mind my sharing that formulation:

If a joke name like <Gemma Stone> or <Hilarius Drunck> is funny to Mistress Alis, the "intrepid 12th-century Anglo-Norman who joined the Sisterhood of Saint Walburga after the death of her third husband"* and to me as Lord Gerard--at least if we ignore the question of what language we're actually speaking--then it's acceptable. But if we have to call on our 21st-century minds, the ones that use FamilySearch, hunt up images on the Internet, attach footnotes with asterisks, etc., in order to find a name funny, then it's obtrusively modern.
-----------------------
* http://www.bluetyger.org/rapier/details/inDetail_alys.htm.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:28:15
Presumably the client wasn't able to document `Jingleheimer".???? Seems unregisterably modern to us. Shown to a non-herald, he replied: "It should be easy to find a conflict with this, since it's my name too."


13: Rachell de Kilburn -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Rachell - Early Modern English feminine given name dated to 1558-1588 in DMES by Sarah Uckelman (http://dmnes.org/name/Rachel)

de Kilburn is an English byname found in RW, p 264, s.n. Kilburn, Killborn, Killbourn

'Thomas <de Kilburn> 1305'

Name Comments:

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2017-01-02 03:02:57
<de Kylburn> and <de Kilburn> (both dated 1600) are both found on pp 1 & 2 of "The registers of the parish church of Kilburn, Co. York, 1600-1812" by Kilburn (Yorkshire: Parish); Lumb, George Denison, Published 1918

"PRIVATELY PRINTED FOR THE YORKSHIRE PARISH REGISTER SOCIETY 1918"

From the preface - "The present Volume contains a transcript of the Register Books of the Parish Church of St. Mary, Kilburn, from 1600 to 18 12."

https://ia800203.us.archive.org/18/items/registersofparis61kilb/registersofparis61kilb_bw.pdf

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:19:07
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:43:14
Verified documentation for given name. No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:29:33
Docs check out. No conflicts found. Purple Falcon comments that it's a nice name!


14: Vikarr Thjodreksson -Resub Name & Resub Device

Per saltire sable and purpure, a raven volant and a serpent nowed argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Language (Norse) most important.

Submission History: This name was submitted as <Vikaar Thjodreksson> on the August 2016 Northshield kingdom letter. It was returned due to inability to contact submitter about a change in the submitted given name. Contact has been re-initiated by submitter, changes have been verified, and submission continues. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=67178)

Vikarr - masculine given name found in GB, p. 16

Thjodreksson - <Thorbjorn Thjodreksson> found in The Book of Settlements: Landnámabók ed. by Herman Palsson, p 68 (https://books.google.com/books?id=jj6cIwMCZqIC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=Thjodreksson&source=bl&ots=suDqKf K0yJ&sig=e7ZXq7YW9jCrv0MpS6zQ2MR_XV0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH6NG71MnOAhVDGR4KHXd9DZwQ6AEIOTAI#v=one page&q=Thjodreksson&f=false)

Submission History: Previous submission 'Per saltire sable and purpure, a raven volant and a Norse serpent nowed argent,' was returned on the August 2016 Northshield kingdom letter due to inclusion of a non-registerable zoomorphic beast. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=67179)

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-12-24 06:21:41
<Þjóðrekr> is the spelling in Geirr Bassi p. 16.

The Old Norse name would therefore be...
Víkarr Þjóðreksson
Vikarr Þjoðreksson
or
Vikarr Thjothreksson.

The manuscript spelling in the Landnámabók is Þiodrekr, according to...
Lind col. 1128 sn. Þjóðrekr

So, three more options are:
Víkarr Þiodreksson
Vikarr Þiodreksson
or
Vikarr Thiodreksson.

There is no difference in pronunciation between Thiodreksson and Thjodreksson, because the -j- is a way to differentiate between the vowel-i and consonantal-i.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:20:34
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:44:52
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:34:13
I really wish that submissions would include the actual spellings of names as found in the documentation they supply! The father's name also shows up in "Viking Names found in the Landnámabók". at http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-01-03 17:24:28
I didn't find any conflict.

Anpliça Fiore at 2017-01-13 17:47:38
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-01-19 14:35:28
No conflicts found. Better specify that the charges are in pale. With the colored field, they could as easily be in fess. The raven is volant bendise. Someone wondered how the viewer can tell it's a raven as opposed to a generic bird.


Thus ends the December Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 10 Names, 1 Household Name, 6 Devices and 1 Badge Change. There are a total of 18 items submitted on this letter.