OSCAR Kingdoms: Trimaris Internal Letters

[ TRIMARIS Home | Trimaris Heraldry | Trimaris Submissions ]
[Æth|AnT|Anst|Arte|Aten|Atla|Avac|Calo|Drac|Eald|East|Glea|Loch|Meri|Midd|Nort|Outl]


TRIMARIS Home
Trimaris Heraldry
Trimaris Submissions

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

Actively
Commenting
only:
Include LoI Text:
Include Comments:
Type:

Trimaris ILoI dated 2019-03-31

Unto the College of Heralds,

Greetings!

Please review these submissions. I appreciate your feedback.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:34:58
The reason OSCAR can't find your group names is because the standard way of submitting and registering them is in the form, for instance: Marcaster, Barony of.

1: Aingeal of the Ruins -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of October 31, 2018 as Aingeal of The Ruins.

Argent, a dog's head couped contourney sable, a castle issuant from base azure

Originally returned due to conflict of the primary element, the dog's head.

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:32): Argent, a dog's head couped contourny sable, a castle issuant from base azure.

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:19): Argent, a dog's head couped contourny sable, a castle issuant from base azure.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 22:47:02
'Contourny' has been confirmed as the correct spelling.

Argent, a dog's head couped contourny sable, a castle issuant from base azure.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:19:16
No conflicts found this time. Agree with Iago's corrections.


2: Alastair MacMhuirich -New Name & New Device

Per chevron engrailed purpure and azure, two goats clymant, respectant and a goose enraged Or.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Language (16th century Scot) most important.

Alastair- is a male given name found in RPS 28 April 1531- Alastair of Glengarry (Judicial proceedings: Continuation of Summons)

MacMhuirich- is a surname found in Black, George F. Surnames of Scotland p. 620

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:23): Per chevron engrailed purpure and azure, two goats clymant respectant and a goose rousant wings displayed Or.

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 00:09:35
I find no conflicts for <Alastair MacMhuirich> or any close variant.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 00:30:50
I do not find "RPS" in http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html#APPENDIXH. Perhaps it would be better to cite a no-photocopy source

Alastair - male given name in Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Alaxandar, Alaxandair (Alasdrann, Alasdar)" for the same gentleman d. 1586 in the forms <Alastar> mac Somairle Buidhe mheg Domhnaill and <Alasdair> mac Somhairle. This strongly suggests <Alastair> as an interpolated form, despite https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/07/11-07lar.html s.n. Alister Stewart, "we were unable to find any examples with -stair that are not modernized".
even though that minor argument must be made.

Of course that can be obviated by a photocopy of the source cited: title page, page where "Alastair of Glengarry" occurs, and any necessary indication that that text has not been modernized.

Otherwise, given that submitter has marked "No major changes", an additional sentence would be prudent: "Submitter specifically allows the documented Alastar/Alasdair"--choose only one!--"if necessary for registration."

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 22:50:31
We've registered the posture 'enraged' only once, and that was in '85. This is 'rousant wings displayed'.

Per chevron engrailed purpure and azure, two goats clymant respectant and a goose rousant wings displayed Or.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 19:52:36
Geese are "rousant".

I'm a little concerned about the low-contrast complex line of division (See https://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixH)

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-06 20:03:37
The only specific ruling I can find on that particular colour combo is: "The combination of azure and purpure with a complex lines of division is a particularly problematic one. In this case, as the line of division was drawn quite boldly, and it is not obscured by any charge, the field is identifiable and thus registerable. [Béibhinn Mhodartha. January of 2013 via Atlantia]"

This submission seems to tick all the same boxes that made that one registerable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 18:07:02
So as Maister Iago blazoned above.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:20:26
Purpure and azure are a poor choice for a divided field, especially with a complex partition line. The goats look like a pretty standard combatant pair to me. Agree with Iago about the goose. No conflicts found.


3: Barony of Marcaster -Resub Order Name

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Order of the Golden Brazier

Meaning most important.

This branch-name was registered in November of 2006 (via Trimaris).

Originally submitted as Order of the Hearth- via Trimaris 2005

Baronial Petition is on file.

This order name follows the pattern `adjective + thing' as documented in Project Ordensnamen by Meradudd Cethin. http://sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/

If registered, please associate this order name with the badge- Azure, a brazier Or, a tierce wavy paly wavy argent and azure Registered 02-2006

Order Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:20:47
Looks OK.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 00:39:10
I cannot find a conflict for <Golden Brazier>. Closest is doubtless East Kingdom's <Golden Rapier>, which is minimally clear by two syllables and by two letters.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-30 17:31:16
The linked article doesn't seem to exist (except for on an old Geocities website).

But the pattern used here, "Color + Charge", is supported by 'Medieval Secular Order Names' by Juliana de Luna: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/order/new/


4: Dagmaer Nilsdottir -Resub Badge

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Dagm?r Nilsdottir in June of 2017, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) Scissors points closed Or with handles entwined by a square knot proper

Originally returned due to the scissors were depicted in a modern version.

Badge Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 19:53:46
I had a really hard time identifying the scissors because the handles are so thin compared to the knot and obscured by the knot.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-07 17:29:47
Would increasing the thickness to match that of the blades resolve this issue for you?

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-07 17:50:22
Making the handles' thickness more like the thickness of the knot strands, I think, would make it clearer.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-18 07:47:51
Is this better?

1: Image 1

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-18 10:18:13
I think it's better. the handles don't immediately get lost in the knot.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 18:10:03
Concur.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:21:34
Based on the PicDic entry, the scissors need to be specified as inverted as well as points closed: "(Fieldless) A pair of scissors inverted, points closed Or, the handles entwined by a square knot proper". No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 18:11:19
Concur with reblazon.


5: Eirik Estridsson -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 1992, via the Middle.

Argent, a triskellion of woves heads sable and a bordure purpure

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:49): Argent, a triskelion of wolf's heads sable and a bordure purpure.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 22:55:37
Only one 'L' in 'triskelion'. We use the singular possessive for heads.

Argent, a triskelion of wolf's heads sable and a bordure purpure.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:22:19
Agree with Iago. No conflicts found.


6: Eleanor de la Tresse -Resub Name & Resub Device

Per bend vert and gules in bend a tress of hair Or between a cross Toulouse argent and an open book argent bound proper

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (Eleanor of the Hair) most important.

Eleanor: appears as a feminine given name in Withycombe under s.n. Eleanor(a), Elinor.

Tresse - is a surname found in Dictionnaire Etymologique des noms de famille st prenoms de France- pg 577

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:29): Per bend vert and gules, a tress of hair bendwise throughout Or between a cross of Toulouse and an open book argent bound proper.

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 01:00:38
I find no conflicts for <Eleanor de la Tresse>.

Closest is <Eleanor de la Mare> (Oct 1989). For appearance, the two are abundantly clear, by 4 letters.

For sound, we must consider monosyllabic English pronunciations of "Mare" and "Tresse" in which the vowel is the same, /ɛ/. Under http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/05/18-05cl.html#7, Substantial Change to the Sound of One Syllable, the two are minimally clear. I.e., "the sounds of the consonant or group of consonants on both sides of a vowel are completely different": /m/ ≠ /tr/ and /r/ ≠ /s/, with no sounds the same in either pair.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:00:25
We need a comma after the field description. The tress isn't 'in bend', it's 'bendwise'. It's also 'throughout', which must be blazoned. Missing an 'of' in the cross's description. And we can safely remove an 'argent', since a cross can't be bound.

Per bend vert and gules, a tress of hair bendwise throughout Or between a cross of Toulouse and an open book argent bound proper.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:23:16
Iago's blazon looks good to me. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 18:20:13
In the colored version, the lines of the cross nearer its center are invisible to me at 20:1 distance, though they're perfectly clear in the line drawing.. If others find the same, I believe this must be returned--again!--or (far better) those lines recolored with their currently black edges made argent in time for the XLoI.

(Irrelevant to registration: At the previous submission, https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=12&id=90431, it was reported that the client actually wanted a braid of hair. So glad it seems to be working!)


7: Eua of Newcastle -New Name & New Device

Sable, on a bend sinister argent two escallop azure, in canton a trowel Or.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.

<Eua> a female name found on p.95 The Book of Deer

<of Newcastle> a locative byname found on p.628 Surnames of Scotland

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:45): Sable, on a bend sinister argent two escallops palewise inverted azure, in canton a trowel Or.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2623/2019-03-19/20-13-08_Eua_of_Newcastle_Documentation_of_the_name.docx

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 01:20:02
I find no conflicts for <Eua of Newcastle>, assuming the given name is bisyllabic. (The following analysis applies whether the "u" is /v/ or it ends or begins a diphthong.)

Closest is <Dia of Newcastle> (Dec 2006). Minimally clear for appearance by the required two letters.

Clear for sound by the syllable "E-" or "Eu -", either by replacing a substantially different syllable "Di-" or, if "Dia" is a single syllable, by adding an initial syllable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-27 01:00:30
I must apologize.

The above is inaccurate, in that the spelling difference between <Eua> and <Dia> is better than minimal. PN.3.C.5, "Substantial Change to the Appearance of a Short Name Phrase", at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/05/18-05cl.html#7, provides that if two comparable phrases each contain four or fewer letters, only one letter need be different between them.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 01:22:39
The link does not work for me. Can a visible image be added?

Sibeal inghean Mhurchadha at 2019-04-27 13:12:53
Sorry about that, here is a different format-

1: Image 1

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:03:05
We need the plural for 'escallop'. We also need to specify that they are both inverted and palewise.

Sable, on a bend sinister argent two escallops palewise inverted azure, in canton a trowel Or.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:23:53
Agree with Iago's comments. No conflicts found.


8: Geoffrey MacHugh of Mull -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 1983, via Atlantia.

Azure, a hind trippant and a chief raguly Or.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:24:17
No conflicts found.


9: Gudhrun Junisdottir -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of October 31, 2018 as submitted.

Per bend sinister Or and gules, a raven proper perched atop a skull argent

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:41): Per bend sinister Or and gules, a raven sable perched atop a skull argent.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:05:27
Original submission is here: https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=12&id=90670

Presumably it was returned because the raven had contrast issues with the field.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:06:43
If a charge can be described using a single standard tincture we don't use 'proper'.

Per bend sinister Or and gules, a raven sable perched atop a skull argent.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:24:43
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon.


10: Haakon Bjornsson -New Augmentation of Arms Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 1992, via Trimaris.

Per pale azure and vert, in chief two lozenges conjoined in fess argent charged with two axes in chevron sable, in base a mullet of eight points argent. As an augmentation in chief is saltire a trident OR anan ax Or ermined gules bendwise.

Old Item: , to be retained as a badge.

Awarding Kingdom: Trimaris

Awarded by: TRM Toirdhealbhach & Slaine

Awarded at: Gulf Wars XIX

Date: 03/20/10

Augmentation of Arms Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:13:00
Using our standard wording for augmentations, and fixing typos:

Per pale azure and vert, in chief two lozenges conjoined in fess argent charged with two axes in chevron sable, in base a mullet of eight points argent, for augmentation in chief in saltire an axe Or ermined gules and a trident Or.

But there is absolutely no way to make out that there are ermine spots on that axe.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-09 16:45:49
I have reached out to determine if making the axe Or only is acceptable.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-10 07:08:01
Client's response he wants the ermine and will not accept an Or axe.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-04-04 22:44:23
If this goes to laurel, this is just a new augmentation of arms, the submitter doesn't have arms previously registered with an augmentation of arms to change.

Also since we protect both the augmented and unaugmented versions of the deivce, it does not need to be a device change

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:25:15
Agree that the tiny axe cannot have ermine spots big enough to see beyond a foot or so on a full-sized shield.


11: Harlow Wrenne -New Name

Submitter has no desire as to gender.

submitted name follows the late period English naming pattern of byname + byname (per September 2012 precedent using a late period English byname as a given name is a well attested pattern)

Given name: Harlow; "English Births and Christenings 1538-1975," database, Family Search (https://familysearch.org/ark:/69103/1:1:J3CC-LMZ : 11 February 2018, James Harlow, 13 April 1600); Citing index based upon data collected by the genealogival Society of Utah Salt Lake City: FHL microfilm 585,397, 585,398

Surname: Wrenne; English Family name. Goodwyn, Julian, "English Names from Pre-1600 Brass Inscriptions", (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/brasses)

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:25:34
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 01:32:08
I find no conflicts for <Harlow Wrenne>.


12: Hawisia de Groote -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in May of 2015, via the Outlands.

Argent and Sable quarterly, overall a lion's head cabossed vert maintaining a sun in his splendor Or

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:43): Quarterly argent and sable, a lion's head cabossed vert maintaining a sun in his splendor Or.

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 17:04:34): Quarterly argent and sable, a lion's head cabossed vert maintaining a sun in his splendor Or.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:14:30
Fixing the field and deleting the 'overall':

Quarterly argent and sable, a lion's head cabossed vert maintaining a sun in his splendor Or.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 19:54:50
Another alchemist!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:25:59
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon.


13: Jódís Flókisdottr -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Language (1-Norse) most important.
Meaning (2- Flóki means enterprising man) most important.

Jódís-Given Name; Feminine-found in "Viking Names found in Landnámabók" by Sara L Uckelman; http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Flókisdottr-Surname Comprised of the masculine given name as found in "Viking Names found in Landnámabók" by Sara L Uckelman; http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

and the patronymic "dottr" as per "A Simple Guide to Creating Old Norse Names"

by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman)

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 19:55:53
The name s/b <Jódís Flókadóttir>. Masculine names with their nominative in <-i> make their genitive in <-a>.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-25 01:39:22
I find no conflicts for <Jódís Flókadóttir>.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:26:30
Docs check out.


14: Kaldr Jotunhamr -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning (meaning Cold) most important.

Kaldr is a Norse male given name found in Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic English Dictionary pg 329

Jötunnhamr is Norse found in Cleasby & Vigfusson pg 328 & 236 (Giant- skin)

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 20:34:02

Sorry, you can't be an ice giant.

Cleasby-Vigfusson p. 329 s.v. <kaldr> has no mention of it as a masculine name. It's just the word for "cold". It occurs in neither Lind Dopnamn nor Lind Personbinamn. It is not in Geirr Bassi. The closest we could get is the masculine given name <Kálfr>, which means "calf".

You also cannot form a byname by plucking words out of the dictionary and smooshing them together. SENA PN.1.B.2.b (https://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN1B2b) requires that when you are constructing a byname, you must provide a pattern of at least three similar documented bynames demonstrating the pattern. I don't think it can be documented. The closest bynames we have are:

  • <Jǫtun->, -Bjǫrn, Landnámabók, Vatnsdæla saga, Flateyjarbók. "Giant"-Bjǫrn; "he was with his mother and was called Jǫtun-". Those who were so named were probably of Såmi (Lapplandic) descent. E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 182 s.n. <Iotun-Biǫrn>.

  • <trǫll>, Arnbjorn, Bǫglunga saga, †1205. "Troll", possibly because of his sinister (black) appearance or his durableness and height. E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 387 s.n. <Trǫll>.

  • <trǫlli>, Þorgrímr, Fóstbræðra saga, Ljósvetninga saga, †1028. "Troll", see above. E.H. Lind Personbinamn cols. 387-388 s.n. <Trǫlli>.

  • <hálftrǫll>, Hallbjǫrn, Landnámabók, Egils saga Skallagrímssonar, Laxdæla saga., Njáls saga, Fornaldar sögur, prehistoric times; Hergrímr, Fornaldar sögur, fictional. "Half Troll", whereby he was characterized as being half (paternal or maternal) derived from "trolls" (Såmi , Lapplanders). Cf. Hervarar saga. in which Hergrímr was the son of the giants Hergrímr and Áma from Ymisland, but this, according to the same source, was located between the giant-populated Jǫtunheimr in Finnmark, and Hálogaland, where real human beings, Norsemen, were thought to dwell. E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 131 s.n. <Hálftroll>.

  • <þurs>, Þórir, Landnámabók, Egils saga Skallagrímssonar; Þorsteinn Landnámabók. "Thurs, giant", similar to <trǫll>; given because of having a dark, sinister appearance, black in mind and beard, cf. <svartiþurs>. E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 410 s.n. <Þurs>.

  • <svartiþurs>, Þráinn, Landnámabók, father of an Icelandic settler. "Black-thurs, black giant", with black hair and beard, and a sinister appearance. Finnur Jónsson, Tilnavne i den islandske oldlitteratur (http://heimskringla.no/wiki/Tilnavne:_Legemet).

  • <þursasprengir>, Þórir, Landnámabók, an Icelandic settler. "Þurs-destroyer, giant-killer", one who ruptures giants.E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 410 s.n. <Þursasprengir>.

I would suggest referring the submitter to a good source of documented Old Norse given names, such as:

For the byname, I recommend starting with http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html

frw ffride or I either one can advise further on names if help is required.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-07 18:47:54
I have reached out to the client to determine what they would like.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-08 06:59:40
The client found the name as Jotunheimr in Introduction to Old Norse by E.V. Gordon my copy is in a stack of unpacked but not sorted Coronation gear. Can anyone verify ? I did get an ok to adjust the given name to Kali- Found on http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-08 09:18:13
Nope, no he did not find <Jǫtunheimr> as a human byname. It's in the glosssary of proper nouns, clearly defined as "Giant-land". Also, Gordon's not a no-photocopy source, so even if it had been reasonable as a name, he'd have to provide photocopies, which would need to be scanned.

<Jǫtunheimr> is one of Norse cosmology's Nine Worlds, all connected by Yggsdrasil the World Tree. It is not a human place that can be used in a name.

As I said to begin with, I can see that he wants to be an ice giant, but SENA doesn't allow a claim of powers or supernatural origin.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-11 13:13:32
@Gunnvor Client asks is <Jotun-Bjorn> one of the names that is acceptable?

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-11 17:11:35
If you look above, you'll see that we have documented a man who was named <Jǫtun-Bjǫrn>, so of course it's fine.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-27 19:24:49
And apparently the source indicates that man was a standard human.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-27 19:33:07
I do not expect that, once adjusted, the submission will have conflicts, though we'll have to check then. For the client's convenience, I note the only two registered names with the morpheme under discussion:
Jotun-Eiríkr Bjarnason (Aug 1990)
Jótun-Kaðall (Jul 2018).


15: Katherine Elinora la Vynour -New Name & New Device [DOCS]

Per fess Argent and gules,in chief a unicorn rampant purpure and in base a cup Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (English) most important.
Culture (English) most important.

Given name and Surname combined-Katherine la Vynour; documented in total in Acadamy of Saint Gabriel Report 2560

http://www.s-gabriel.org/2560

Given name Elinora; Dictionary of English Surnames; Brian M. Scott, 1994

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:56): Per fess argent and gules, a unicorn rampant purpure and a cup Or.

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:44): Per fess argent and gules, a unicorn rampant purpure and a cup Or.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2623/2019-04-01/20-07-44_Katherine_Doc1.pdf
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2623/2019-04-01/20-07-46_Katherine_Doc_2.pdf

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:27:08
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-27 19:43:35
I find no conflicts for <Katherine Elinora la Vynou>, and nothing close enough to require analysis. E.g., the only arguably similar registration, <Katherine Elenora de Lacy> (Nov 1994), is clear by a few syllables and multiple characters.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:15:51
Charges on a divided field default to either side of the line of division, so we can simplify:

Per fess argent and gules, a unicorn rampant purpure and a cup Or.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:28:02
The tiny charges badly need to be enlarged to fill their spaces. Agree with Iago's blazon. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 21:53:34
In this case, I don't think that "badly" quite equals "returnably", although it's close. What say you all?

Might be interesting to see if as submitted it would trigger Wreath's "Pending for Redraw" policy proposed at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/12/18-12cl.html#2.


16: Lijsbet Van Luxembourg -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Dutch) most important.

Lijsbet is a Dutch feminine given name found in 15th Century Dutch Names, by Aryanhwy merch Catmael https://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15.html

Van is a part of the dutch last naming practices found on s.gabriel.com

Luxembourg locative in nature, Luxembourg established 963 https://www.britannica.com/place/Luxembourg/History

Name Comments:

Ava van Allecmere at 2019-04-06 06:19:05
There appears to be a difference in the first two words: Lijsbet & Van, both being clearly Dutch. Luxembourg is the French spelling.

Here is a document from 1606 where Luxembourg is written as Lutzeburg or Luxemburg: https://studiezaal.nijmegen.nl/detail.php?id=621320328 The source is the Nijmegen archives in Holland

The Amsterdam archives have the name Luxenburg dated from 1660.

I am looking for earlier sources, but the French spelling could be an issue?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-07 17:50:32
I will reach out to the client to determine if spelling is an issue

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-08 07:01:07
Client will accept either Lutzeburg or Luxemburg

Ava van Allecmere at 2019-04-10 03:57:37
Wonderful. Do you need more from me besides the link to the document here above? regards, Ava

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-10 07:09:28
Not unless something else causes a hiccup! my thanks for the links!

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 21:55:22
Client needs to decide which she prefers, preferably before the XLoI.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:28:56
Given name doc checks out, but we need to see evidence that "Luxembourg" was a spelling used in the 15th C.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 21:54:33
See above.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-27 19:48:54
I find no conflicts for either <Lijsbet van Lutzeburg> or <Lijsbet van Luxemburg>.


17: Mathias von Augspurg -New Name & New Device

Per bend purpure and argent, a horse rampant and an eagle rising counterchanged.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 14th to 15th Century Germany.
Language (German) most important.

Mathias a male given name from Germany found in St. Gabriels archives: http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/german1495.html

von is the proper connective for a locative byname as found on http://heraldry.sca.org/names/patterns.html

Augspurg a German locative surname found on St. Gabriels, http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/rottweilsur.html

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:29:36
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-28 10:16:08
I believe <Mathias von Augspurg> is free of conflicts, but we should consider the closest registered name, <Matthias von Greifsburg> (Mar 2005) for difference in sound. I believe that by changes to the final two syllables this is probably minimally clear. However, just in case an important pronunciation merges /p/ and /b/ in the final syllables, we have substantial change to the penultimate syllables--/gr/ ≠ /0/, /ai/ ≠ /au/, /fs/ ≠ /gs/--to again make the names minimally clear for sound.

The names are clear for appearance by multiple letters.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:29:49
No conflicts found.


18: Meffrid Hahn -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound (Me-frid han) most important.

Meffrid is a male German given name found in Medieval German Given Names from Silesia, Men's Names, by Talan Gwynek https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/bahlowMasc.html It is found once in the year 1300 (Meffrid, Mechtfrid).

Hahn is a German byname found in Some Early Middle High German Bynames with Emphasis on Names from the Bavarian Dialect Area, by

Brian M. Scott https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/Early_German_Bynames.html It means a rooster, and the spelling is New High German.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:30:07
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-28 10:24:22
I find no conflicts for <Meffrid Hahn>.


19: Pantea Artunis -New Name & New Device

Or and purpure per bend sinister bevilled, in pale a rondell and a sun counterchanged.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (strong; true/faithful) most important.

<Pantea> is Persian female given name foundon persepolis.nu/queens.htm

<Arturis> is Persian female given name found on persepolis.nu/queens.htm

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:46): Per bend sinister bevilled Or and purpure, in pale a roundel and a sun counterchanged.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2623/2019-03-19/20-08-41_Historical_Persian_Queens,pantea.pdf
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/2623/2019-03-19/20-08-44_Historical_Persian_Queens_artunis.pdf

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:30:47
Docs check out, but I found nothing to indicate whether a Persian name can be made from two given names.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-14 11:48:26
The near east naming is not even in my wheelhouse as of yet so I am hopeful as this progresses up the line we can gain more insight.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-28 11:22:46
I'd worry.

Karine Megerdoomian, "The Structure of Persian Names", http://zoorna.org/papers/PersianNames-MP088034-Released_08-1036.pdf, declares in its Introduction:

Prior to the 20th century, person proper names in Iran did not include a surname and people were often distinguished by their place of birth, profession and honorific titles. In the early 1920s, the secularization and modernization policies of the government of Reza Shah Pahlavi required the use of surnames. Family names were selected relating to geographic regions, professions, or by using abstract concepts that depict a positive human trait.
Note that nothing there, not even the last sentence, refers to patronymics or metronymics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_name#Surnames similarly asserts, "Prior to that [1919], a person was often distinguished from others by a combination of prefixes and suffixes attached to his or her name. If it was omitted, that person might be taken for someone else."

The Abstract in Megerdoomian asserts that for modern names, "There are no middle names", but §2.2 says "Persian first names can appear as compounds, which are formed by combining two first names (usually both of Arabic or Islamic origin)." (The first sentence in the Wikipedia article, "A [modern] Persian name consists of a given name, sometimes more than one, and a surname", may well be a simplification consistent with that.)

Even supposing period given names are similarly constructed, which seems not unlikely, I don't see how one part can be considered given and the other a byname.

To avoid return for incompleteness, I urge submitter to choose one or more among "place of birth, profession [or] honorific titles" and ask in the XLoI for help with period grammar and form. Megerdoomian §4 lists modern honorifics indicating literacy, mastery of a craft, pilgrimage in general (including a feminine form) and to specific places, and descent from the Prophet (again including a feminine form), none of which will run into SENA's prohibition of honors or awards granted only by rulers (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN4B4).

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:20:22
Fixing the field and the spelling of 'roundel':

Per bend sinister bevilled Or and purpure, in pale a roundel and a sun counterchanged.

There is a step from period practice for a charged field with a bevilled field division, but that appears to be the only one.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:31:18
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's corrections.


20: Reinhard der Löwe vom Schwartzwald -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Language most important.
Culture (Germanic) most important.

Given name- Richard;

Name found: Medieval German Given Names from Silesia by Talan Gwynek

Url: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/bahlow_v.htm

Surname- der Löwe vom Schwartzwald

Naming construction and patterns from laurel staff

Url: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/patterns.html

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2019-04-06 21:49:30
Does he want Richard or Reinhard? or the German equivalent of Richard? or what?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-09 16:11:26
I believe he wishes Reinhard.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 22:37:29
Then the documentation should say

Given name - Reinhard, dated 1316 in "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia by Talan Gwynek", http://heraldry.sca.org/names/bahlow_v.htm
Moreover, while the "naming construction and patterns" of given+byname+locative are indeed from Laurel staff, as presented in the German section of the article cited, the elements used also need to be documented. Fortunately, documentation for each has appeared in an LoAR.
Descriptive byname - der Lowe, in https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/09/12-09lar.html s.n. Konrad der Lowe von Ulm, "Ælfwynn Leoflæde dohtor was able to date der Lowe to 1276 ... in Socin (p. 428)." Submitter would prefer "der Löwe" with umlaut as in modern German if it can be documented to period.
N.B. Of course the final sentence should be included only if authorized by submitter.
Locative byname - vom Schwartzwald, in http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/02/12-02lar.html s.n. Dedrich Schweickhardt vom Schwartzwald, "The byname zum Schwarzwald is dated to 1378 in Karl Schmidt's Die Hausnamen und Hauszeichen im mittelalterlichen Freiburg. The spelling Schwartzwald is found in a 1570 map made by Abraham Ortelius. A byname using vom is also feasible; therefore, this byname can be registered ..."
I suppose, in addition to the paragraphs indented above,
SENA Appendix A shows the pattern given+byname+locative for German.
could appear in the XLoI documentation, or perhaps the "Naming Construction and Patterns" article presently linked to could be cited as displaying submitter's commendable initiative more clearly.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:31:36
Looks good.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-28 11:30:40
I find no conflicts for <Reinhard der Löwe vom Schwartzwald>.


21: Shire of Sea March -New Device Change

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Or, a natural sea horse within a laurel wreath vert and on a chief azure three palm trees Or

Old Item: Per chevron ployé throughout gules and Or, a Caucasian blond merman erect affronty holding in his sinister hand his tail argent, a Caucasian blonde mermaid erect affronty holding in her dexter hand h, to be retained as a badge.

Shire Petition is on file.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:23:10
By 'retained as a badge', I'm assuming it's actually 'retained as Ancient Arms'? Because a badge can't have a laurel wreath. (I understand that OSCAR doesn't have an Ancient Arms option, but I want to be sure that is the actual intention.)

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-04-04 22:47:04
If this goes to laurel, Lymphad just needs to make a note that the original device is to be retained as ancient arms.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-04 22:50:53
Yes, if that is the intention of the branch. But nothing in the headmatter makes it clear what their intention is.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-09 16:33:16
I have reached out to confirm

Chrysantha d'Argento at 2019-04-12 16:03:10
Shire of Sea March group Herald here. I was not aware of the difference either, but now I am. There was no other option on the form. Anyway, discussed and clarified at our meeting on 4/10/19; yes...we wish to retain as Ancient Arms.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:32:18
Sea March, Shire of, was registered in 2/83. The new device will be a good deal easier to reproduce. No conflicts found.

Chrysantha d'Argento at 2019-04-18 09:04:30
That is part of the reason for the change. The old device had, among other things, two merfolk. Not easy to reproduce, and they almost always looked angry.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 22:45:49
(Irrelevant to registration: And the new one alludes well to the Shire's mundane area without being a post-period landscape.)


22: Siobhan Grenelefe -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of October 31, 2018 as submitted.

Perpall argent, Or and Vert, a crow displayed and a linden tree eradicated sable

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:18): Per pall argent, vert and Or, in pale a crow migrant and a linden tree eradicated sable.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:27:11
This crow isn't displayed, as we'd see legs on either side of the tail. Fixing the order of the field tinctures gives:

Per pall argent, vert and Or, in pale a crow migrant and a linden tree eradicated sable.

Step from period practice for a non-eagle in a displayed-equivalent posture.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-02 00:53:02
On second thought, I think this needs to be returned. See the return of the device of Eirikr rauðskeggr on the January 2019 LoAR (via the Outlands):

This device is returned for redraw. The ravens aren't quite displayed: by definition, that posture has the bird sticking a leg out to either side. We might say they were migrant, or volant to chief, but then the heads would be pointed in the same direction as the bodies, not tilted to one side (the head posture a displayed bird would have, in fact). These birds are in a posture halfway between migrant/volant to chief and displayed, while being in neither. Unfortunately, this is grounds for return.
I believe this raven has the same issue.

Mayken van der Alst at 2019-04-03 09:26:13
This is exactly the same artwork used for the raven as in the original submission. While they addressed the tree, the raven graphic still doesn't meet heraldic standards.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-03 09:50:25
Without seeing the text of the original return I can't say for sure, but looking at the commentary on it (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=12&id=90679) it doesn't look like the raven issue was brought up at all, so it's not surprising the client didn't address it.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2019-04-03 09:58:26
The posture issue was brought up.
Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-03 04:57:35
The crow has no legs which makes it more migrant than displayed.

It even got a reblazon suggestion because of it.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-03 10:19:01
Fair enough. But since it was treated as a blazon issue and not a returnable offense, I still have my doubts about whether the client was advised of it.

Is there a Trimaris submissions herald out there who could share the text of the return?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2019-04-07 15:56:48
Iago ab Adam- The item was not returned it was pulled from continuing forward. Somehow the posture issue was missed and is being addressed with the client now.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-09 16:51:52
Art is being redone as migrant per client response

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-04-19 14:19:07
Re- worked artwork

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 22:50:25
I find the rework works. And it can correctly use Maister Iago's proposed blazon above--first comment here. What say you all?

Note that "migrant" incurs an SfPP, but I believe that's the only one now.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:33:16
Agree that the bird is not displayed. No conflicts found.


23: Thomas the Oppressed -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of October 31, 2018 as submitted.

Gyronny arrondi of 6 argent and azure, a rat statent gules

Originally returned due to the main element not standing out from the Field.

Correction to Device (2019-Apr-09 16:04:37): Gyronny arrondi of six argent and azure, a rat statant gules.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:29:11
The original submission is here:

https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=12&id=90296

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-01 23:31:11
Spelling out the number, and fixing the spelling of 'statant':

Gyronny arrondi of six argent and azure, a rat statant gules.

SFPP for gyronny arrondi field with the corners of the shield in the center of a gyron and a central charge. But I'm fairly certain that's the only one.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:33:46
Tincturing the rat gules fixes the cause for the previous return. Agree with Iago's blazon. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 22:51:47
(Art criticism: Striking and attractive!)


24: Verena von Talhain -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2018, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) On a compass star Or a seablatt gules

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-04-13 15:34:20
So far as I know, no one has yet found period evidence for the existence of the "compass star". Redraw it as a proper mullet of eight points and this will be fine. No conflicts found.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-04-13 15:36:55
It warrants an SFPP, but it's an allowed charge. There's no need for a redraw.

Chrysantha d'Argento at 2019-04-18 09:13:24
A compass star is a registerable charge, for example my husband's arms, passed in March 2013: Gareth de Taunton: Gules, an armillary sphere argent between three compass stars Or, a bordure argent.

Mayken van der Alst at 2019-04-19 08:30:35
A Compass Star a registrable charge but warrants an SFPP.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-04-20 22:59:59
Fixing the typo:

(Fieldless) On a compass star Or a seeblatt gules


In Service I Remain,

Sibéal inghean Mhurchadha

Lymphad


OSCAR counts 12 Names, 1 Order Name, 13 Devices, 1 Device Change, 2 Badges and 1 Augmentation of Arms Change. There are a total of 30 items submitted on this letter.