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Trimaris ILoI dated 2017-08-31

This is the August Internal Letter of Intent for the Kingdom of Trimaris.

Its publication was pushed back to accommodate submissions from Fall Coronation which occurred Labor Day Weekend and preparation and recovery from Hurricane Irma.

It also includes three items from Pennsic.

May your commentary be civil and your criticism constructive!

Yours in Service,

~Ephrem Orbeli

Lymphad Herald

1: Agustin de Leon -New Name & New Device

Argent, on a bend gules three escallops bendwise sinister argent.

Sound most important.
Language most important.

Agustin: Men's given name found in, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century," by Julia Smith

https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/MensGivenAlpha.html

de Leon: Locative surname found in, "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century," by Julia Smith.

https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/locative.html

Name Comments:

Khalidah bint Yahya'a (Rampart) at 2017-09-16 10:34:05
The name docs check out and no conflicts found for the name.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2017-09-18 14:53:51
good name

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:23:32
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 03:24:19
No conflict found.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2017-09-18 14:57:12
no conflicts

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-09-22 04:01:51
Having all the internal detailing the same color as the underlying charge hampers identifiability and makes the escallops look disjointed.

Iago ab Adam at 2017-09-22 10:33:03
Really? I think they're clearly identifiable from at least double the 20:1 viewing distance. And period heraldry was often painted in layers instead of colouring book style, leading to exactly this kind of effect.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 13:28:21
Concur. I don't find them disjointed to the point of blazonability, much less unidentifiability. For me, they say "escallops" quite clearly.

Kryss Kostarev at 2017-09-26 06:30:52
They are totally identifiable. There is no problem here.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:23:57
No conflicts found.


2: Gwladus Vachan wreic Tursten -New Name & New Device

Sable vêtu ployé argent, on a plate a heart gules.

Language (Welsh) most important.
Culture (Welsh) most important.

Gwladus: Welsh female given name found in, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names," by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

http://heraldry.sca.org/names/welsh13.html

Vachan: Welsh byname based on a Personal Nickname, Mutated found in the same source as the given name.

wreic Tursten: Welsh byname meaning wife/woman of Tursten.

http://www.s-gabriel.org/1154

http://www.s-gabriel.org/3187

Name Comments:

Khalidah bint Yahya'a (Rampart) at 2017-09-16 10:47:31
The documentation for <wreic> does mention that the use of it is very uncommon as a woman was most commonly known as the daughter of <father's name> rather than wife of <husband's name>. <wreic> has been registered as name elements twice before. Name docs check out and no conflicts found for the name.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-09-20 23:10:06
I believe in order to use the Welsh marker for wife/daughter, it needs to used with a Welsh given name. According to the documentation Turnsten is Latinized. According to Constructing s 13th Century Welsh Names, Latinized name follow Uxor

Appendix A doesn't state that Latinized names are allowed with other relation markers.

According to SENA, name phrases should be from a single time period and place.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-20 23:43:42
No, what 3187 says is "All of these with the exception of <Tursten> have been Latinized." That is, this is the sole Welsh version on that list. So not a problem.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-09-20 23:50:48
I did missread and you are correct about Tursten not being Latinized but I can't find in the article where it says the name is Welsh.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-21 14:01:36
Thank you--I read too little and too quickly. The article in fact says it's "Norman", Norse-derived. So no more Welsh than Latin.

Problem.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:24:49
The documentation provided makes Tursten a Norman name. That can't be combined with the Welsh "wreic".

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 03:39:14
No conflict found.

Calpurnia Fortunata (Seacat) at 2017-09-18 23:08:21
I'm just going to get this out of the way, because I noticed it, but I don't know who else will:

Her name is Glados, and her device is a Companion Cube.

I don't feel like this is obtrusively modern, but I want to make sure that others think this will pass.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-18 23:43:42
It's very remininiscent of the Companion Cube seen at https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Weighted_Companion_Cube but definitely not identical. GLaDOS (Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System) is covered at https://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Glados. Her name is similar but not identical to that of submitter.

I believe that if submitter begins depicting her heart in pink and/or straightening the ployé she will bring ridicule upon herself, not the College.

Calpurnia Fortunata (Seacat) at 2017-09-20 19:42:05
I just really hope this doesn't mean the submitter will end up as a potato. ;)

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-09-20 23:27:45
I find no conflicts. I don't believe this close enough to the companion cube to be obtrusively modern. Obtrusive modern calls are usually left up to Wreath to make.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-20 23:41:01
Doesn't mean we shouldn't offer him our opinions.

Kryss Kostarev at 2017-09-26 06:55:28
I like it. It looks like a period depiction of a modern idea, but it is period and very simple and elegant. After looking at the Companion Cube, it doesn't look identical to it, it just resembles it a little. Specifically, this emblazon is not square; the heart is not pink; the background color behind the plate is not grey; on the Companion Cube the arching in the corners goes the other direction --> away from the heart, not toward it, following the lines of the plate; and there are no billets or whatever you would call those things between the corner pieces. There are actually quite a lot of differences.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-26 16:02:11
And there's no annulet/orle/bordure, let alone a gray or pink one.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:26:22
No conflicts found. Guess I'm too old to have even heard of a "Companion Cube".

Kryss Kostarev at 2017-09-29 11:49:06
I am pretty old myself. I had never heard of it either; I had to look it up. We have to be proactive to keep up or we will be left behind!

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-29 12:56:46
Same here. I consider myself an SF&F fan, but no one can keep up with everything any more (if we ever could).


3: Katarzyna Danilowska Falkówna -New Name

Submitter has no desire as to gender.
No major changes.
Language (Polish) most important.
Culture (Polish) most important.

Format of the name and individual elements are found in, 'A Preliminary Survey of Names from the, "Historical Dictionary of Personal Names in Bia{/l}ystok,"'

http://st-walburga.aspiringluddite.com/docs/bialystok.pdf .

Katarzyna: Given name dated to 1569 and 1580 in the above documentation.

Danilowska: Found without date in the above documentation.

Falkówna: Found without date in the above documentation.

*Submitter is amenable to the addition of articles in Polish or Lingua Anglica as necessary.

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-09-16 04:38:48
Looks like capitalisation matters for the URL: http://st-walburga.aspiringluddite.com/docs/Bialystok.pdf
We can form the bynames from:
Danilo, masculine name dated 1558, which can form Danilówska, as a married name.
Falko, masculine name dated 1551, which can form Falkówna, as a maiden name.

SENA Appendix A notes that bynames for women ending in -ówska and -ówna require no further documentation, though for consistency, I'd expect to see both bynames use ó, or o (with the latter being more likely as far as I can tell).

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-09-20 23:11:41
Please give credit to author of the Article, Dame Lilla de Vaux

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:26:44
Docs check out.


4: Killian Bryce -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 1997, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) A horse rampant contourny argent, charged on the shoulder with a triskele azure.

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 03:43:15
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:27:17
The triskele brings it clear of Alail Horsefriend, badge reg. 4/02 via the West, "(Fieldless) A horse rampant contourny argent."


5: Lisa Dochesefford -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2015, via Trimaris.

Argent, a bird stooping contourny azure.

Original returned for a redraw because the bird was not in an approved posture.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-16 07:54:21
The Laurel return December 2015 was more involved than that.
Lisa Dochesefford. Device. Argent, a bird inverted azure.
This device is returned for multiple issues with the depiction of the bird. It violates our ban on inverted animate charges. This device is also returned for not being reliably blazonable, a violation of SENA A1C which requires an emblazon to be describable in heraldic terms. Blazoned as descending, this term doesn't appear to have been used in period blazon, and in modern usage, it doesn't refer to this posture. The embowment of the bird's body prevents it from being volant to sinister base or anything similar. As it is, the posture of the bird cannot be adequately described in blazon. Finally, this device is in violation of SENA A2C1 which states that "Elements must be drawn in their period forms". The depiction of the bird used here is modern.

Mistholme describes this posture as: A bird "stooping" is volant to dexter base, with the body bendwise sinister and the wings addorsed and swept back.
Volant Feet invisible, wings outstretched. Wings can be displayed or not. From the SCA bird postures see diagram below.
I wonder if this wing posture is within the bounds of stooping.

Is this current submission still a modern depiction of the bird?

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-16 23:37:33
My opinions:

Is this bird stooping contourny? Yes. Unlike the one in the previous appended image, which not having its wings addorsed nor its body bendwise (sinister) is merely volant.

Is it a modern depiction? Well, yes; like the previous submission (see https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=58166) it could come from a Christmas issue of a women's or craft magazine. But unlike that it's also consistent with our interpretation of period style. (Few if any emblazons in our LoIs could be mistaken for something from a period roll, after all.)

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 03:41:41
That is what I was looking for. Avian and floral heraldry drive me up the wall.

No conflict found.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-09-20 23:16:37
This bird is still inverted and is not allowed by precedent.

In September 2009 this badge was returned for being inverted. Ælfgar Greyseas. Badge. (Fieldless) A swan volant displayed bendwise to sinister base argent. This badge is returned for redesign. Per precedent, "We do not allow inverted animate charges in SCA heraldry except when in recognized orientation, such as in annulo" (LoAR February 1999, p. 10). All of those commenting on this badge had difficulty in correctly identifying the exact type of bird and its posture due to its orientation.

https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=54105

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-20 23:53:09
It's arguable that Ælfgar's swan at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=54105 was inverted. However, the present submission views the bird from the side.

Ephrem Orbeli (Archive) (Lymphad) at 2017-09-21 21:48:13
Seraphina,

The following is a link to the 12 submissions in the OandA which are registered Stooping to Sinister, including one as recently as November of 2015:

http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=BIRD%3astooping%20to%20sinister%3a1

Yours in Service,

~Ephrem

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-29 13:29:23
That search finds conflicts, not instances, and they are of limited use without emblazons.

Here are five OSCAR-era registered devices with birds blazoned stooping to dexter or sinister that I find similar to the submission--except for the legs missing here. They are respectively

From https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=70123 for Luca de Luca
From https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=37451 for Astrid Skeggsdottir
From https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=64929 for Minamoto Shizuka
From https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=32450 for (as registered) Alfríkr Ríksson
From https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=52093 for Ruadrí Facouner

I see no reason to consider the submission's bird to be returnable as inverted.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3 4: Image 4 5: Image 5

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:28:33
No conflicts found under "BIRD:stooping to sinister:1". This certainly doesn't resemble the volant bird shown by Magnus or the one quoted from the PicDic.


6: Owain Mawr ap Bran -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2016, via Trimaris.

Barry per pale argent and vert, a raven displayed and a bordure engrailed sable.

Original submission returned for improper shield shape. Redrawn to fix this issue.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-16 07:31:39
There is a step from period practice for the use of a bird other than an eagle in the displayed posture.
No conflict found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-16 23:42:25
The O&A prefers (by several vs. 0) to have an "and" for the field:

Barry and per pale argent and vert, a raven displayed and a bordure engrailed sable

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:29:13
No conflicts found.


7: Persephone Maniglia -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of September 30, 2016 as submitted.

Per bend sinister azure and argent, a magnolia flower and a triskele counterchanged.

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-16 07:29:33
Name was registered December 2016. No conflict found under Flower-Few Petals which appears to be where the magnolia was filed.
There is a step from period practice for the use of New World magnolias.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-17 00:01:39
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/12/15-12cl.html#4, "From Wreath: Should the triskele get a step from period practice?", has so far as I can tell never been followed up.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 05:41:58
I also find no ruling on this. The call for commentary on it gave no deadline for commentary to be entered and it does not appear on any LoPD I can locate.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:33:02
See one magnolia flower registered, but would like to see a description of its distinguishing characteristics. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-29 14:00:44
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnolia tells us the blossoms are considered "primitive" by botanists, with neither sepals (the "barbs" of roses) nor petals but tepals. See the first image below, from https://ferrebeekeeper.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/flowering-magnolias/.

The number of tepals, their general shape, their arrangement, and the central structure shown in the emblazon match those in the second image below, from https://fineartamerica.com/featured/regal-southern-magnolia-blossom-kathy-clark.html, and/or the third, from https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/trmar98c.htm. Other than being a few degrees off palewise*, I believe the charge is nicely heraldic.
----------------------------
* Which was not a barrier to registration for Ivan Shield Bane's device, seen at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=74914.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3


8: Steven Moreland -New Name

No major changes.
Sound most important.

Steven - English given name found on pg. 273 of, "Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names," by E.G. Withycombe

Moreland - English surname found on pg. 610 of, "The Surnames of Scotland," by George F. Black

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-09-16 05:47:37
Black checks out but the online version shows no dates. R&W, 3rd ed., p.314, s.n. Moreland shows a William de Moreland 1327 for the Moreland spelling.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-09-16 05:56:32
I don't have Withycombe, but "16th Century Gloucestershire Names" by by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) lists Steven one time. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/late16.html


9: Stratonike Thebaia -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Client requests authenticity for Circa 200 BC Greek.
Culture (Ptolmaic Egypt) most important.

Stratonike: Greek feminine given name attested 21 times in Trismegistos, including the Latinized Stratonice of Syria, the Queen of the Seleucid Empire from 300 BC to 294 BC and her daughter, Stratonice of Macedon.

http://www.trismegistos.org/ref/ref_list.php?nam_id=5874

Thebaia: Greek feminine locative byname from the ethnic locative Thebaios meaning, "of Thebes(Egypt)," and dropping the -os for the feminine -a.

http://www.trismegistos.org/place/576

Name Comments:

Khalidah bint Yahya'a (Rampart) at 2017-09-16 10:57:42
Liddell and Scott's Intermediate Greek Lexicon s.v. <Thebaios> confirms that Thebaios is the usual ethnic adjective for a Theban, dating back to Homer, and the feminine form is <Thebaia>.

I have been unable to find anything in support of <Stratonike> beyond the submitter's documentation.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-09-17 05:20:12
Στρατονίκη (f.), not Στρατονίκε, is found 261 times in the online Lexicon of Greek Personal Names, in volumes 1,2,3a,3b,4,5a,5b. Date sampling ranges from 429 BC to Byzantine. The result url is: http://clas-lgpn2.classics.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/lgpn_search.cgi?namenoaccents=%CE%A3%CE%A4%CE%A1%CE%91%C E%A4%CE%9F%CE%9D%CE%99%CE%9A%CE%97

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-09-18 17:19:20
The Thebes in the second page of the name returns is the Grecian Thebes now called Thíva. The date is 'imp.' which is the Imperial period (31BC to AD310).

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:33:37
Docs seem to support this.


10: Valeria Victoria -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Sable, a pall inverted purpure fimbriated between two drop spindles and a clew of yarn argent.

Device Comments:

Ephrem Orbeli (Archive) (Lymphad) at 2017-09-16 04:11:56
Name registered as written on the LoAR dated February 2017.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-16 23:58:13
Conflict with Medb ingen Mathgamna's device, Feb 2010, Sable, a pall inverted purpure fimbriated between two bear's paw prints and a raven regardant argent. 1 DC for type of secondaries under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5G4, and nothing more.

Hardly seems fair that because the charges are so radically different they aren't comparable to get another DC under A5G7, "Change of Posture or Orientation Within a Charge Group"--as, e.g., if the clew were a swan volant it would--but that's what our rules provide.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 06:03:47
If you wish to request permission to conflict
http://wiki.caid-commons.org/index.php/Medb_ingen_Mathgamna

Barony of Califia should be able to locate her.
http://www.calafia.org/

Mayken van der Alst (Triskele) at 2017-09-19 10:22:07
Thank you! We have reached out to them and are hoping to be able to make contact.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:34:38
Agree about the conflict with Medb. Hope she is willing to give permission to conflict.


11: Valeria Victoria -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(Fieldless) A drop spindle purpure.

Badge Comments:

Ephrem Orbeli (Archive) (Lymphad) at 2017-09-16 04:12:05
Name registered as written on the LoAR dated February 2017.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-17 06:06:17
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-09-29 10:35:00
No conflicts found.



OSCAR counts 5 Names, 5 Devices and 3 Badges. There are a total of 13 items submitted on this letter.