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Trimaris Kingdom ILoI dated 2016-10-31

The Internal letter for the Kingdom of Trimaris.

Many thanks to everyone who reached out to help sort through some of the submissions that fell through the cracks in previous years and the influx of submissions from Fall Coronation.

Special thanks to Mistress Milesenda de Bourges, who is much more than my boss, but rather a tireless leader whose tireless devotion to the Dream serves as an inspiration to me and my peers.

Yours in Service,

Lord Ephrem Orbeli

Lymphad Herald Trimaris

Letter Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 07:20:57
Awww love you back! My pleasure Ephrem.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:18:47
Darkwater Commentary Group consists of: Master Sasha Gregor'evich Vilanov, HL Taran Sarev, Lady Adelina de Bretigny, Lord Ephrem Orbelli, Lord David Archer, Mistress Milesenda de Bourges, Lady Rahil bint Haoron, Lady Moire Gray

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:44:54
Comments under my name on this letter represent the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, consisting this month of Lady Brigida von München, Purple Falcon Herald, Lord Caoimhin McKee, Rouge Sanglier Herald Extraordinary, Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant, Lady Gwenhevere Maynes, Deodar Pursuivant, Lady Eimear DeColfre, Deodar Seneschale, and myself.

1: Algirdas Gozzo -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2016, via Trimaris.

Or, on a mullet azure, an owl contourney Or, and in base a trident fesswise sinister azure.

Previously returned on 03-2016 LOAR for:

<<inform you that your Arms, Or, on a mullet azure an owl contourny maintaining a trident Or, have been returned by the Laurel Sovereign-at-Arms

for the following reasons:

This device is returned for running afoul of SENA Appendix I which states "A single charge group may only have one tertiary charge group on it." Here the owl contourny and trident constitute two different charge groups on the mullet.>>

Redrawn to split charge group with permission of submitter.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2016-11-04 23:56:40
Tweaking,

Or, on a mullet azure an owl contourny Or and in base a trident fesswise reversed azure

(The College seems to consider a trident a variety of spear, so the charge is indeed not in default fesswise orientation, but it currently prefers "reversed" over "to sinister" in this context.)

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:41:12
Nice redraw , defiantly solves the issue of the return. No conflicts found . Thank you for the trident / spear thing. I thought that is what I saw as well.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:15:09
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:16:22
Darkwater Commentary Group: Appears to address prior rejection issue.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:46:13
Micael has already found the problems with the blazon as presented. No conflicts found.


2: Apolonia Zawadzka -New Name & New Device

Vert, a fess gules fimbriated Or charged with two dulcimer hammers fesswise addorsed Or, between a hammered dulcimer Or and a tower argent.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Language most important.
Culture (Polish Pre-1630) most important.

Apolonia -Polish, form of Apollonia - 3rd century christian martyr St. Apollonia of Alexandria

Zawadzki - Polish/Jewish habitational name for someone from Zawada or Zawady in Poland. Derived from Polish "Zawada" meaning obstacle or impediments. For Female usage of the family name use Zawadzka.

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-11-02 06:03:01
Słownik staropolskich nazw osobowych volume 1, pages 61-2 sn. Apolonija has in the submitter's desired spelling:
<Nobilis Apolonia et Heduigis> 1486
<Apolonia Casprova de Cracouia> 1497
<Cum Apolonia, consorte Andree Jazvyeczsky alias sculteti de Voykowka> 1484

volume 6, page 276 sn. Zawadski has:
<Zawadski, Zawadzki> 1382, 1398, 1405, 1406.
Images attached.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3 4: Image 4 5: Image 5

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2016-11-03 13:55:10
Great references! Ty

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:44:21
From what I am reading here the documentation does seem to give support to the name wanted

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-07 08:37:18
I believe the documentation in the commentary will address that and we'll get that added into the submission.

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:45:03
Good job on the emblazon here. Well worded. I cant find any major conflicts .

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:45:47
that should have been on the device .. Too early in am for me LOL

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:28:13
Darkwater Commentary Group: No issues found, no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:47:23
"Polish Given Names in Nazwiska Polaków". by Walraven van Nijmegen and Arval Benicoeur, found in the Medieval Names Archive, lists Apolonia as a feminine name. _Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings_ by Hoffman has Zawadzki on p.283 under "Zawad-". The discussion on p.20 supports the feminine form of the surname. Wikipedia lists 41 different places in Poland callled Zawady. Likely some of them were present before 1630. Ancestry.com says: Zawadzki Name Meaning Polish and Jewish (eastern Ashkenazic): habitational name for someone from any of several places called Zawada or Zawady, in different parts of Poland. The place name is derived from Polish zawada `obstacle'. -- http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=zawadzki The earliest Rohese found the name Zawadski in Family search was 1662. Name Daniel Zawadski Event Type Baptism Event Date 12 Jan 1662 Event Place Brezno, Brezno, Slovakia Gender Male Father's Name Georgio Zawadski Mother's Name Marina Kulis Line Number 6 Reference ID 48 GS Film Number 2006426 Digital Folder Number 005016467 Image Number 00031 "Slovakia Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDN6-HLW : 24 February 2015), Daniel Zawadski, 12 Jan 1662; citing Brezno, Brezno, Slovakia, line 6, reference ID 48, state regional archives, Slovakia; FHL microfilm 2,006,426. There is no batch number but it appears to be sourced from church and synagogue records. Jadwiga Zawadzka was registered in October 2005 via the West. Perhaps there is documentation available from then? Hope someone else can do better. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:24:35
Darkwater Commentary Group: addorsed is not the correct term in the blazon. Replace with: respectant

Haakon Bjornsson (Gold Axe) at 2016-11-14 23:14:41
I beleive to be respectant, you would need faces.. i would reblazon as Heads to center.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:25:55
Darkwater Commentary Group: Recommending redraw to darken lines on dulcimer due to identification issues. Also recommend redrawing the hammers to a period style as these are not identifiable as hammers (they look more like spoons).

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:02:55
Darkwater Commentary Group: To note the dulcimer hammers on this may need to be redrawn to be in the same orientation. Submitter will be contacted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:52:56
The dulcimer is nearly unrecognizable. Agree that drawing the internal detailing more boldly would help. Blazon fu: "Vert, on a fess gules fimbriated between a hammered dulcimer Or and a tower argent, two dulcimer hammers respectant Or." No conflicts found. These look like any dulcimer hammers I've seen. They do indeed look like spoons.

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2016-11-25 22:19:29
While the line drawing of the hammered dulcimer is easily recognizable, the tinctured version desperately calls for more contrast for the detailing.

I was having difficult in recognizing the hammers; they do not resemble dulcimer hammers that I am familiar with, nor do they resemble the example found at Mistholme [http://mistholme.com/dictionary/dulcimer-hammer/]

1: Image 1


3: Asiya al-Badawiyya -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2015, via Trimaris.

Argent, a scimitar inverted sable entwined with two roses proper, within a border gules.

Previously submitted on letter 8-29-15: Returned for below reason on the 11-2015 LOAR:

<<Asiya al-Badawiyya. Device. Argent, a falchion inverted sable entwined of two roses gules slipped and leaved vert, a bordure gules.

This device must be returned for having the roses depicted in trian aspect. Per SENA A2C1>>

Per this, the submitter has approved a redraw with the roses drawn in proper period form and affronty.

Also, corrected blazon from the paperwork to read "proper" rather than "natural"

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:39:37
I think to be reproducible we need to be a bit more specific: a scimitar inverted sable, the blade entwined with two roses proper.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:35:46
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found, addresses prior issue. Will update blazon.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:53:48
Don't we still need to specify that the roses are slipped and leaved? No conflicts found. The comma after "proper" should be omitted. Agree that only the blade is entwined.


4: Bran ORaghailligh -New Name & New Device

Gules, a wheel argent and in chief three hand grenades Or.

Sound most important.

Given Name: Bran - Irish Male, "Raven" 671 AD, P 33 of Irish Names by O Corrain/maguire

Surname: O Raghailligh - Irish Names and Surnames by Woulfe

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-01 06:05:54
There's not much summary this documentation summary. In order to evaluate a name, commenters need to know not just what the sources are, but what they say. It is also a considerable help if links are given to those sources that are available online.

There is an entry on page 113 of Woulfe that contains "Ó Rag.allig." (where the periods indicate a punctum delens over the preceding letter) (https://archive.org/stream/irishnamessurnam00woul#page/113). As it is permissible to eliminate diacritics in registered Gaelic names (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2001/11/01-11lar.html#33) and is standard S. C. A. practice to use an "h" after a letter instead of a punctum over it (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2004/03/04-03lar.html#81) when transliterating Gaelic names, "O Raghailligh" would be an acceptable constructed equivalent to this. However, Woulfe doesn't give dates for any of the names he lists, the text includes modern forms, and he normalizes many of the older forms that do appear (https://archive.org/stream/irishnamessurnam00woul#page/40). So just being in Woulfe doesn't mean a name is appropriate for before 1600, and it certainly doesn't mean that it's compatible with a given name from any particular period.



The Annals of the Four Masters has an entry for the year 1536 reading (in the CELT transcription; http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G100005E/text004.html):

O Raghailligh Fergal mac Seain mic Cathail tighearna Ua m-Briúin & Chonmaicne fer, fial, fosaidh, firinneach, dearlaictheach deigh-einigh d'écc iar c-comain & sacarfaic.


That translates as (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T100005E/text004.html):
O'Reilly (Farrell, the son of John, son of Cathal), Lord of Hy-Briuin and Conmaicne, a generous, potent, upright, and truly hospitable man, died, after receiving the communion and sacrifice.




That supports "O Raghailligh" as plausible for the 16th century, which would make it Early Modern Irish Gaelic. The submitted documentation gives "Bran" as a 7th-century name, which would be Oghamic Irish. SENA requires name phrases in different languages within a single Regional Naming Group (like Oghamic Irish and Early Modern Irish Gaelic [http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixCGaelic]) to be dated to within 500 years of each other (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN2C2). This documentation doesn't meet that standard.

Fortunately, "Bran" also appears in annal entries related to 15th-century events, and Mari Elspeth nic Bryan's Index of Names in Irish Annals lists that form as standard for Early Modern Irish Gaelic (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Bran.shtml), so "Bran O Raghailligh" seems to be workable as a 16th-century name, if submitted with this alternate documentation.

I haven't seen anything that would justify conjoining the particle "O" to "Raghailligh".

1: Image 1

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 07:22:21
Thank you - we were aware the summary was lacking as some of these were backlogs with original documentation that was sparse. We included what we could in the hopes that further internal commentary would allow us to flesh out the documentation further.

All local heralds have been reminded to completely fill out the summaries for forms. :)

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:39:20
Darkwater Commentary Group: Should be a space between O and Raghailligh per the submitter's form and documentation. Will adjust in external. Sorry that's an error on our end!

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:42:24
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflict found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:54:25
Colblaith has filled in the gaps in the name documentation very well.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:41:36
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:55:17
These are normally called simply "grenades". They're not very identifiable; some thought they look like crowned bezants. If this is redrawn, the picture in the PicDic might be a good one to copy. No conflicts found.


5: Christophe Beck -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2014, via Trimaris.

Per pall argent, sable, and Or, on a tortoise vert a bow with arrow nocked Or fletched gules.

Item previously submitted at Kingdom and rejected for following reasons:

In ability to distinguish bow and arrow on turtles back.

Redrawn with a thicker bow and arrow for visibility.

Device Comments:

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:48:10
This makes the bow stand out much better. I did not see conflicts on the last draw , my only issue was definition of the bow .

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:47:09
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found, no other issues noted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:56:12
There's no problem with identifiability this time. No conflicts found.


6: Conall Howell -New Name & New Device

Quarterly vert and sable, a cross throughout between two wolves heads couped regardant and on a chief Or, three towers vert.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Meaning (Wolf Like, derived from wolf) most important.

Conall - Irish Names by Donnchadh O'Corrain, Fidelma Maguire, p. 56

Howell - Mundane Name Allowance S. Howell

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-01 06:34:51
There's not much summary this documentation summary. In order to evaluate a name, commenters need to know not just what the sources are, but what they say.

In this instance, we need to know what date O&M gives for "Conall". In case the answer is, "It doesn't give any dates,": Mari Elspeth nic Bryan's Index of Names in Irish Annals lists "Conall" as the standard nominative form of the name in Old, Middle, and Early Modern Irish Gaelic. . .appropriate to any time between 700 and the end of our period (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Conall.shtml).



We don't have to settle for the mundane name allowance for "Howell". It's a perfectly period Welsh masculine given name. See Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn's A Simple Guide to Constructing 16th Century Welsh Names (in English Contexts) (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/welsh16.html) for examples. As the use of unmarked patronymics requires no further documentation in Welsh (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixAEnglish), it serves as an acceptable byname, as well.



And as the combination of a Gaelic and a Welsh name phrase is permitted so long as the two are dated to within 300 years of each other (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixCGaelic, http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN2C2b), Conall Howell as a whole should be registrable.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 07:22:48
Thank you - we were aware the summary was lacking as some of these were backlogs with original documentation that was sparse. We included what we could in the hopes that further internal commentary would allow us to flesh out the documentation further.

All local heralds have been reminded to completely fill out the summaries for forms. :)

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:52:47
Darkwater Commentary Group: Ensure that submitter's documentation for mundane name allowance is uploaded.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:57:35
Darkwater Commentary Group: Howell located in Oxford dictionary of English Surnames by Reaney and Wilson. P 241. English Surname: Howell, Filius Ade (Walensis) 1221 C.E

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:57:17
O'C&M's entry for Conall indicates that it is found throughout our period, and that it means "strong as a wolf". Howell comes from the Welsh patronymic "ap Hywel" as a somewhat Anglicized form according to Tangwystyl's article cited by Colblaith. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 19:51:48
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found. Uncertain on blazon for the wolves heads but suggesting we send it forward.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:58:31
"wolves' heads" The cross is throughout by default. We need to specify that the heads are in chief. No conflicts found.


7: Corwyn Moray -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2005, via Atlantia.

Purpure, three bendlets argent, and in sinister chief a standard bendwise Or.

Previously returned on the 11-2015 LOAR:

<< * Corwyn Moray. Badge. Purpure, three bendlets argent and in sinister chief a standard Or.

This device is returned for violating SENA A2C1 which states that "Elements must be drawn in their period forms". The depiction of the standard used here does not match the forms we have documentation for. Since this standard does not match previously registered depictions, documentation of it as a period form was required, but not provided either by the submitter or by commenters. Additionally, this depiction violates SENA A2C1 which states that "Elements must be drawn to be identifiable." The manner in which the standard itself is wound around its pole reduced its identifiability to an unacceptable degree.>>

Submitter had, per conversation, liked the design but approved a resubmission with the standard drawn in period manner.

Badge Comments:

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:51:04
Was this redone. The return and the resub look identical to me here . Or am I reading something wrong

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:54:28
AH the wording is the same , the previous drawings are of different elements.. SO is this what he wants . And does this conform to proper standards ? Seems all we did was change elements .

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-06 05:40:09
It is the same charge but the last badge was returned due to the charge being unidentifiable. It has been redrawn to rectify that. And yes, he has approved it.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:03:55
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found outside of the submitter's own badges.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 15:59:25
Don't think "sinister" is needed in the blazon because if it's in chief it pretty much has to be to sinister. No conflicts found.


8: Cúán mac Muirchertaig -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 2015, via Trimaris.

Vert, three hammerhead sharks naiant in annulo and a chief Or, charged with an anvil vert.

Device was returned on the 02-2015 letter: <<Vert, three hammerhead sharks naiant in annulo Or.

This device is returned for conflict with the device of Onóra inghean mhic Catháin: Sable, three fish naiant in annulo Or. There is only one DC for changing the field. No DC is granted for the protuberances on the head of the fish. A fish is a fish.>>

The submitter has approved the addition of a chief and anvil which should provide an additional DC.

Additionally, there was some question over whether the hammerhead shark was a SFPP as the arrangement counts as one SFPP. The resultant commentary last time seemed to indicate that the hammerhead shark was a known species in time and thus did NOT count as a SFPP.

Pertinent links are:

Image 1:L'histoire naturelle des estranges poissons marins. By Pierre Belon, 1551.

Source: http://biomedicalephemera.tumblr.com/post/6564432825/hammerhead-shark-lhistoire-naturelle-des

Image 2: And this version where the nose and tail of the shark seem to have been cut off of the print?

Source: http://www.archive.org/stream/lhistoirenature00belogoog#page/n90/mode/2up p. 90

Images 3 and 4: Historia Animalium by Conrad Gesner, 1558. p. 1253 and 1256

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zfEN9BfeGxwC&pg=PA1255&lpg=PA1255&dq=%22Historiae+animalium%22+Z ygaena&source=bl&ots=zF6MtVAapj&sig=VIQUgVafezDop3lgoi1MIBHXu-A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oChNUpGWJoSTiQeS84HIB Q&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Historiae%20animalium%22%20Zygaena&f=false

Image 5: Seems to be a flipped version of the shark already seen in Historia Animalium Guillaume Rondelet. 1554. Libri de Piscibus Marinis p. 389 http://books.google.com.au/books?id=4oBDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA389&dq=zygaena&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CWFNUoXVBsqdiAfOj ICQCg&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=zygaena&f=false

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-14/18-58-37_showimage.php.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-14/18-58-37_showimage2.php.gif
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-14/18-58-37_showimage3.php.png
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-14/18-58-37_showimage4.php.png
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-14/18-58-37_showimage5.php.jpg

Device Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-11-02 06:07:38
The May 2015 LoAR sn. Anabel de Marseille. Device return. Argent, a zydrach urinant sable and on a chief invected purpure three hearts argent.
Notes: "The submitter has documented zydrach as a period term for the fish modernly known as hammerhead shark."

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 06:56:16
Thank you! We'll update the blazon.

Diderick van dem Mere (Archive) at 2016-11-05 09:58:21
Addition of the chief and anvil does seem to clear conflict.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:16:11
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflict found, anvil clears the prior conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:01:21
No conflicts found. The default anvil has but one horn. Blazon fu: "Vert, three hammerhead sharks (or zydrachs!) naiant in annulo and on a chief Or a double-horned anvil vert."


9: David of Loch Gryffyn -Resub Name & New Device

Argent, a pale gules fimbriated between a sword point to base and a wolf's head erased to sinister sable.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Culture (Scottish 12th Century) most important.

David - Masculine Given Name - Scottish Given Name, 12th century, Withycombe p 80 - ex. David I of Scotland 1084 - 1153

Loch Gryffyn - Locative name for local group, Canton of Loch Gryffyn, Barony of Darkwater, Kingdom of Trimaris

http://www.trimaris.org/localcontacts-grouplist

Name Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:23:16
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflict found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:01:46
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:22:37
Darkwater Commentary Group: Suggestion for blazon "Sword inverted" rather than "point to base" No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:02:53
The sword is inverted. Possible Conflict: Gwalchmai ap Bledig, reg. 12/08 via the Middle: "Argent, a pale gules endorsed sable." There's one DC for changing the endorses to sword and wolf's head (fimbriation does not count for anything). Do we need to blazon the gules detailing of the sword?


10: Eoghan Murray -Resub Name & Resub Device

Per pale Or and azure, a chevron between three mullets counterchanged.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Culture (15th-16th century scottish) most important.

Given name: Eoghan (1500-1600) - Link acquired from the Academy of St. Gabriel

http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/men.shtml#scottishgaelic

Surname: Murray (13th-18th Century) - The Peerage of Scotland (1710). George Crawfurd, Esq. (Pages 26-28): Containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004896390.0001.000/1.18?rgn=div:view=fulltext

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-01 07:12:05
"Eoghan" does appear as a masculine given name in the stated source, Sharon L. Krossa's Scottish Gaelic Given Names, marked as relevant to the dates in the submission. However, the introduction to the article warns that it is a very rough draft with little attention to the quality of its information and, "As it stands, the entries in this article are best used only as a starting point for further analysis!" So if this name is sent up to Laurel, it might be best to bolster that article it with something more reliable--like Mari Elspeth nic Bryan's Index of Names in Irish Annals, which supports "Eoghan" as the standard Early Modern Irish Gaelic form of the name, appropriate from 1200 to the end of our period (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Eogan.shtml).



Most genealogical texts make very poor sources for period names, as they use standardized forms. My brief perusal of the source offered for "Murray" revealed nothing that made me think it is an exception.

Sharon L. Krossa's Early 16th Century Scottish Lowland Names documents 11 instances of "Murray" as a surname in the Aberdeen Council Register from the years 1500-1550, which was written in Scots (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/lowland16/surnamesalpha.shtml).



SENA specifies that a Gaelic name phrase and a Scots name phrase may be combined (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixCEnglish) so long as they can be dated to within 300 years of each other (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN2C2b), so Eoghan Murray as a whole should be registrable.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:29:56
Darkwater Commentary Group: Additional commentary helps provide valid documentation (thank you!) No conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:04:04
Coblaith's comments fill out the documentation given above. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-11-03 21:37:50
No conflicts found.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:25:03
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:05:22
Will this need to be redrawn on our standard shield shape? No conflicts found.


11: Euthymius Alakaseus -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2016, via Trimaris.

Fieldless, a lightning bolt bendwise within a bordure Or

Previously submitted under Michael of Darkwater in-kingdom on 04-2016. Returned at kingdom due to conflict with Dunno Jamesson The following device associated with this name was registered in March of 2002 (via Ansteorra): Per pale argent and sable, a lightning bolt bendwise Or.

A border has been added to the image with a redraw to clear the conflict.

SFPP for use of a lightning bolt outside of a thunderbolt.

Badge Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:42:54
If it's fieldless, there's no field to have a bordure on, and fieldless designs with more than one charge need to be connected.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 22:57:24
If we put the field as a color will it clear conflict? I remain uncertain on the border not being applicable for a field less badge. Can you please reference that ruling for my own education purposes? Thank you!

Haakon Bjornsson (Gold Axe) at 2016-11-01 23:16:33
SENA: A.3. Armory Style A.2. Fieldless Designs: We categorize these as badges; devices must have a field. All the charges in these designs must touch one another to create a single self-contained design. Fieldless designs must follow all other style rules. They must include a primary charge, and may also include secondary, overall, or tertiary charge groups. Additionally, no charges may be used that are defined in terms of the field or its outline, such as a bordure, chief, or an ordinary that isn't couped.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 05:34:55
Thank you! Back to the literal drawing board ;)

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-02 14:01:18
A bordure is defined as following the edge of the field, so no edge, no bordure. You could use a delf voided, simply by leaving a little white space outside the square. People also use mascles and annulets as "frames".

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-03 07:26:09
Got it. I understood the concept but was more asking for the ruling so I could include that in my mental knowledge base. Thank you! I also greatly appreciate the suggestions - I'll draw those up and show them to the client and we'll see if any of those fly for a resubmit. Your help has been greatly appreciated.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-07 08:33:59
I have spoken with the client and he has approved a solution so this will get entered on the next letter with some alterations. Thank you!

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:30:37
Darkwater Commentary Group: Needs to be redrawn. Herald working with submitter for alterations due to fieldless rules

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:07:47
As others have said, if the client really wants the bordure, the badge will have to be fielded. That means that the field will have to be tinctured of a color. Haven't checked alternatives for conflict.


12: Faith Tomlinson -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in May of 2013, via Trimaris.

Fieldless, a frog rampant vert, bellied or, maintaining a skillet sable.

Previously submitted with the following return reason from the 03-2016 LOAR

<< This badge is returned for multiple reasons.

It violates SENA A2C1 which states that "Elements must be drawn in their period forms" and SENA A2C2 which states "Elements must be drawn to be identifiable." The skillet depicted is not in a period form and was generally interpreted by commenters as a brush.

It must also be returned administratively. The Administrative Handbook says "The colored copy must be a scan of the original." This is not a scan. As indicated in this month's cover letter, the image does not need to come from a scanner but must be an unaltered digital representation of the actual paperwork. This is not the case here as the colors are altered and different from that on the uploaded form.

Some commenters wondered if the design was too evocative of a cartoon frog character and as such could be construed as obtrusively modern. This is not the case.>>

Item has been redrawn with the suggested period skillet from: Armorial Bellenville c.1370. Also cf. http://mistholme.com/dictionary/frying-pan/.

Item has also been scanned with actual scanner to avoid color alteration issues.

Badge Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:34:12
Darkwater Commentary Group: recommendation to draw highlight line on frying pan to increase identifiability of the frying pan.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:08:07
No conflicts found.


13: Godfrey de Neuhalle -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in May of 2013, via Trimaris.

Argent, on a chevron inverted engrailed gules, three magnolias argent, carpeled and stamened Or, and in chief a bear passant azure.

This submission was previously rejected in the 06-2016 LOAR for:

<<Device. Argent, on a chevron inverted engrailed gules, three magnolia blossoms argent barbed vert, in chief a bear passant azure.

Both previous returns of device mentioned two problems: that no evidence was provided that magnolias were known to period Europeans and that the flowers were not identifiable as magnolia blossoms.

Again, no evidence was provided that magnolias were known to period Europeans. The earliest evidence for a magnolia in Europe that commenters could find dates to 1688 and that was the magnolia Virginiana, whose blossom is rather different from the magnolia grandiflora which appears in that submission. That form of magnolia does not appear to have reached Europe until 1726, well after the end of our period. As this would be the defining instance for this flower in Society heraldry, we need more evidence. Additionally, the depiction of magnolia blossom used is the same as previously, which was returned for lack of identifiability.>>

Having consulted one of our local historical plant experts, we provide the following.

1) "In South America, magnolias were known to the Aztecs as "Eloxochitl," or the flower with the green husk. In 1570, the Spanish physician Francisco Hernandez took a scientific expedition to Mexico and created drawings of the Eloxochitl, which were re-edited and published in Europe in 1651. "

http://lesson.website/the-history-of-magnolia-trees/

2) The Hernandez drawing can be found in the book: Nova plantarum historia Mexicana. The species depicted is Magnolia dealbata (This work contains a drawing of a plant under the vernacular name Eloxochitl, that is almost certainly Magnolia dealbata (=Magnolia macrophylla subsp. dealbata). Picture drawn circa 1570. This books is also referenced by the Torey Botanical Club in their bulletin. https://books.google.com/books?id=rDkWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502&lpg=PA502&dq=Nova+plantarum+historia+Mexican a&source=bl&ots=6TqCIVg_cp&sig=qZ9IzAsl7o6UOISOGqGvJfAPfY8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw-qX79uLPAhXC4CYK HYuuA3QQ6AEILzAE#v=onepage&q&f=false

Snippets of the book -although not this page - are available at: http://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/view/search?QuickSearchA=QuickSearchA&q=Nova+plantarum+histo ria+Mexicana&search=Search

The book has copies in the British Museum and in the Arnold Arboretum collection at Harvard.

3) Additionally, the following archaelogical survey indicates the presence of magnolia pollen and detritus in soil samples from Fort Manzanas, a period fort in St. Augustine. Presumably if the trees were present to pollinate and leave debris, they were visible at the fort area which was constructed in the sixteenth century.

https://archive.org/stream/archeologicalinv00deag/archeologicalinv00deag_djvu.txt

4) Lastly, the magnolia glauca is referenced as being discovered by European explorers in 1584 in Pamlico Sound, modern day North Carolina.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZU4hAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR24&lpg=PR24&dq=earliest%20mention%20of%20magnoli a%20in%20europe&source=bl&ots=Da_EJnbSOV&sig=wuipYsdFLN6XdNJKWa2Jjj0O-1M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3wv eGguPPAhVCTSYKHVfTBb4Q6AEIOTAE#v=onepage&q&f=false

(Image of pertinent page below)

5)http://globaltrees.org/projects/magnolias-caribbean/

Documents the Magnolia's presence in the Caribbean which had been settled by Europeans since 1498.

6) Given all of the above, it was clear that while later publications made the magnolia more well known, it was known to European explorers in the mid to late 16th century in both Mexico and The St. Augustine Florida area. I will also note that the notation that major publication occurred later, we would count this as a valid arts and science source for competition given the original penning in the mid 16th century.

The second concern was the identifiability of the magnolias. They have been redrawn to depict magnolias with their prominent stamen in the "cup" style that we depict many other period flowers in.

Correction to Badge (2016-Nov-01 10:11:43): Please note that this should be changed to a resubmit when we move the letter up.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-17/18-55-45_240px-Magnolia_Watsoni.JPG
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-17/18-55-45_silvadocumentation.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-17/18-55-45_hernandezbookreference.jpg

Badge Comments:

Calpurnia Fortunata (Seacat) at 2016-11-01 08:44:25
Just as an FYI, this is currently showing up as a new badge, when I believe it is a device resubmission.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 10:35:04
That is correct - good catch!

Aria Gemina Mala at 2016-11-02 03:59:00
The chevron inverted is too high. Both chevrons and their inversions need to be centred (regardless of slope) on the fess line.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 05:33:30
You are correct. Provided there are no other issues I'll redraw, get client approval, and fix that for external. Thank you!

Ephrem Orbeli (Lymphad) (Lymphad) at 2016-11-10 22:57:16
No need for a redraw, I can just re-blazon it as enhanced.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2016-11-03 15:38:26
Great research!

There are a couple of issues I recall when discussing the viability of the magnolia. The first is, what I call 'historical leap of faith". Magnolias existed in our 'historical moment'. St. Augustine existed (1565). Hernando De Soto led an expedition (1589) crossing the southern part of what is now the United States (Florida, Georgia, S Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, etc). The name Magnolia first appeared in Genera by Plumier (1703). The genus Magnoliaceae is traced back to at least 20 million years. So, without going on and on, chances of Europeans encountering a 'magnolia': I would venture to say very close to 100%. This kind of reminds me of The critique of Pure Reason ;)

The second point is were my non-comformist, outlier, rule-breaking character comes in. The yard stick by which we measure our Society is based in Northern European roots, while it has expanded through the years, we have ways to go. For example, science has told us that what we call a magnolia has existed for millions of years, yet we have to have European validation. By that I mean that unless an European see it, experiences it, and names it, it doesn't exist. The same is found in the ruling that outside civilizations have to have been touched by European society to be 'period'. How about Aleuts? They didn't have contact until Russians in 1741 way pass our period. The same can be said of the Chinese. The Daqin references date to 166 AD. Recently we have the ruling regarding Demotic names. At the end of the day my point is, that we should move towards more inclusivity, as our member base becomes more diverse. Simple example is my own experience, when I started in the SCA in Trimaris, back 1998, Spanish personas were common enough, actual Hispanics not so much.

Anyhow, as always I digress, but thankfully this research makes the magnolia plant documentable, hence registerable.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:41:44
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:09:41
Agree about moving the chevron down. No conflicts found.


14: Grisselda Farley -New Name & New Device

Azure, three fish conjoined at the head in a triskele Or, and a chief wavy argent.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Culture (Pre 1600 British Isles) most important.

Grisselda: Germanic from "Gris" (gray) and "Hild" (Battle). Found in literary writings from Petrarch and Chaucer "Patient Griselda"

Latin/Spain: 1488 Griselda - Carbonell I, P 24

-S.L. Uckelman: The Dictionary of Medieval Names

Grisselda with two "s" - Irish Names by Donnchach O' Corrain, P 115

Farley: Family usage in submitter's Family tree. Client would accept a McFarley or MacFarley alteration.

*Note to Ephrem* Submitter does not have precise book that Grisselda was obtained from (Donnchach above). Please append this entry with the appropriate notation and summarization from the herald's library. If two S's are not documentable, submitter will allow Griselda

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-01 07:25:11
There's not much summary this documentation summary. In order to evaluate a name, commenters need to know not just what the sources are, but what they say. In this case, we need to know what date OC&M gives for "Grisselda".

Four instances of Farley are recorded in Julie Kahan's Surnames in Durham and Northumberland, 1521-1615, with dates from 1584 to 1612 (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/parish/surnames_ef.html). (That would make the language Early Modern English.)

But we need to have a linguistic context for "Grisselda"--both language and date--to comment on whether the two name phrases can be combined (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN2C).

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-11-02 06:15:34
If the submitter hadn't specified "pre-1600", then another way to approach the submission could have been:
<Grisselda Barton> female, christened 1602, Sandridge, Hertford, England. Batch no. C15745-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYW4-336)
<John Farley> married 1585, Stortford, Hertford, England. Batch no. M07217-2
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJL3-M5T)

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:42:49
Darkwater Commentary Group: Would remove the Latin/Spain reference to avoid confusion of sources

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:47:21
Darkwater Commentary Group: Recommend looking at Black's Scottish Surnames for "Farley" documentation

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:10:55
My copy of O'C&M, 1980 edition, doesn't have an entry for Gris(s)elda, although p.115 is where it would be. Their entry for Gráinne on p.114 mentions Grissel(da) as an Anglicized form of that name. Uckelman's work shows only the spelling with one "s". Colblaith's source for Farley checks out. Rohese's exploration of Family Search turned up: Name Grisselda Barton Gender Female Christening Date 20 Jun 1602 Christening Place Sandridge, Hertford, England Father's Name Thomas Barton Indexing Project (Batch) Number C15745-1 System Origin England-ODM GS Film number 1040658 IT 4-13 -- "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYW4-336: 30 December 2014), Grisselda Barton, 20 Jun 1602; citing Sandridge, Hertford, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 1040658 IT 4-13. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:11:36
No conflicts found.


15: Gunnólfr Járnhauss -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of January 31, 2010 as Gunnólfr járnhauss.

Per chevron inverted azure and sable, a chevron inverted between a sword inverted and a winged skull argent.

Item was in process on a prior external letter but was withdrawn by submitter permission to redraw the skull, formerly depicted as a death's head, which was against the submitter's desired intent for the image.

Resubmitting.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:12:16
The two halves of a parted field like this should be of roughly equal areas. That could be most easily achieved here by redrawing the chevron with an acute angle. Vs. Valadonis the Wanderer, reg. 8/80 via Ansteorra: "Per chevron inverted azure and sable, a chevronel inverted between in pale an eagle displayed, head to sinister, and a compass star pierced argent", we see a DC for changing the type of the secondaries.


16: Gustav Siggesson Leijonhofwud -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

Fieldless, three tulips palewise slipped and leaved azure.

Previously submitted and returned on 12-2015 LOAR for:

<<This device is returned for not being reliably blazonable, a violation of SENA A1C which requires an emblazon to be describable in heraldic terms. The arrangement of the tulips with the nowing of leaves cannot be adequately described in blazon.>>

The submitter has consented to a simpler drawing of period tulips per: http://mistholme.com/?s=tulip

Badge Comments:

Aria Gemina Mala at 2016-11-02 03:59:36
Fieldless badges must have all their elements touching.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:48:00
Darkwater Commentary Group: Item will be redrawn to reflect this need.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:12:55
As pointed out already, all charges on a fieldless badge must be conjoined. He could add an argent field. No conflicts found with that.


17: Harold Merwen -New Name & New Device

Vert, a squirrel rampant argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Language (Welsh) most important.
Culture (Welsh) most important.

Given Name: Harold - P. 280 Onomasticad Anglo-Saxonicum, AD 1037

Surname:Merwen

Mer - as in Merwydd, Heraldic Proceedings Caide Heraldic Symposium AS XXIV, P 80

Wen - As in Arianwen, Heraldic Proceedings Caide Heraldic Symposium AS XXIV, P 80

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-01 07:38:45
There's not much summary this documentation summary. In order to evaluate a name, commenters need to know not just what the sources are, but what they say.

In this instance, we need to know to what language(s) and date(s) the mentioned source attributes "Merwydd" and "Arianwen", and what it says that makes you think you can break them in half and stitch bits of them together to make a new name. Were names from whatever context produced them dithematic? Were "Mer-" and "-wen" included in lists of proto- and deuterothemes that can be freely combined? Or is this like saying "Davmas" is a legitimate 21st-century American name because "David" and "Thomas" both are?

Renée du bois d'Ambre (Boar) at 2016-11-17 20:17:26
Going on the two assumptions that 1) the language is Welsh (as both Merwydd and Arianwen are both Welsh names), and 2) the method of construction is plausible (I do not have access to the cited source material):

Gwyn is a header form of Wen dated to 1234 in Given names in the charters of the Abbey of Ystrad Marchell, 1176-1283 by Constanza of Thamesreach (Genny Grim) [https://s-gabriel.org/names/constanza/ystradmarchell-given.html]

Merfyn Frych, also known as Merfyn ap Gwriad and Merfyn Camwri, was King of Gwynedd from around 825 to 844, the first of its kings known not to have descended from the male line of Cunedda. {Wikipedia & other historical records}

Whether the two can be combined in the form desired, I do not know.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:13:55
"Harold" has been documented as English rather than Welsh. That's OK with the College if it's OK with the client who's asked for a Welsh name. SENA says that unmarked patronymics are OK in Welsh. Although some languages pretty freely put prothemes and deuterothemes together, We don't believe that Welsh is one of them. Rohese provided some possible alternatives: The only Merwen I could find in the Family Search records was German. There were a number of instances in England of Morwyn, such as: Name Sants Morwyn Gender Unknown Burial Place St. Dunstan-In-The-West, London, England Death Date 17 Apr 1609 Indexing Project (Batch) Number B00020-4 System Origin England-EASy GS Film number 396193 -- "England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDH8-DNT : 24 December 2014), Sants Morwyn, ; citing , reference ; FHL microfilm 396,193. Harold, of course, is Anglo-Saxon. An example of an actual Welsh name would be Hywel ap Merwydd, which is in the pattern of given plus patronymic. Or of course, he could be Harold Morwyn, but it wouldn't probably be Welsh. There is also a female Anglo-Saxon name: Mer(e)wyn Merewenne S-812, 967x975; Latin Merwenna S-741, 966; Latin "Anglo-Saxon Women's Names from Royal Charters" by Marieke van de Dal -- https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/marieke/anglosaxonfem/ So he could be Harold Merwen, but it would be an Anglo-Saxon name of the form given plus unmarked metronymic. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:46:37
A squirrel's tail should be as large or larger than the body. In the absence of a maintained acorn, the only clue we have that this is not a domestic cat is the tail, and while the shape is correct for a squirrel, the tail needs to grow.

1: Image 1

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 22:58:34
That's a fairly easy fix on my end if there are no other issues. I can redraw, get approval, and we can put the new ones in external without a problem.

Aria Gemina Mala at 2016-11-02 03:59:47
I thought this was a cat.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:55:58
Darkwater Commentary Group: Conflict found with Regana van Kortrijk in Outlands Feb 2002. Azure, a squirrel argent. A DC is not given for the position of the squirrel.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:15:13
Agree that a longer tail would make the squirrel more identifiable. Conflicts with: Regana van Kortrijk, reg. 2/02 via the Outlands: "Azure, a squirrel argent." Squirrels are sejant erect by default, per the Glossary of Terms, and sejant erect conflicts with rampant, per SENA Appendix L.A. So the one DC is the field tincture. and with: Rhiannon of Lindmyr, reg. 11/88 via Atlantia: "Vert, a squirrel sejant erect, tail coward, between two flaunches Or." One DC for removing the flaunches.


18: Hjǫrr-hryggr Hàkonarson -New Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Trimaris LoI of July 31, 2016 as submitted.

Gules, a raven close regardant within a bordure embattled erminois.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:49:14
These are very odd ermine spots.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 22:59:54
Apparently the original image sent to me was somehow flipped. We have a non-flipped version with proper ermine spots that can be fixed for the next letter if that is deemed too far afield. However I think a note on artistic representation may better suit if there are no actual heraldic issues.

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-02 03:05:27
The line drawing seems to be missing its ermine spots altogether.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 06:57:20
See above comment that we have a non-flipped image. That will be addressed as well and is entirely my fault. I was getting a little "punch drunk" on the line art at that point.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:56:52
Darkwater Commentary Group: The submitter has given a different image with more definition of the raven that we recommend using.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:17:04
The "ermine spots" more resemble whole cloves with the seeds missing. As noted, they're missing entirely from the line drawing. No conflicts found.


19: Iustina Bryennissa -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in June of 2003, via Trimaris.

Per bend sinister azure and argent, in bend two maple leaves counterchanged.

Badge originally returned on the 01-2015 LOAR for: Conflict with Sapphira the Navigator The following device associated with this name was registered in February of 1992 (via the East): "Per pale azure and argent, a fig leaf counterchanged."

Submission has been modified, approved by submitter and resubmitted.

Badge Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 20:58:51
Darkwater Commentary Group: no conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:17:38
No conflicts found.


20: James Highgate -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2012, via Trimaris.

Sable, a chevron below two sealions combatant Or.

Previously returned for:

<< This badge is returned for a redraw, for violating the guidelines set forth on the May 2011 Cover Letter for a properly drawn chevron: the chevron here is too low, even with charges above it. Please see that Cover Letter for further discussion and details of how to properly draw a chevron.

On redesign, please make sure that the sea-lions are drawn small enough compared to the chevron that it is unambiguously clear that the chevron is the sole primary charge.>>

Item has been redrawn with properly balanced chevron and smaller sea lions

Badge Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:00:34
Darkwater Commentary Group: No conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:18:14
No conflicts found. How about "Sable, a chevron and in chief two sealions combatant Or"?


21: Kormákr Úlfreksson -New Name Change

OSCAR NOTE: filing name should not be registered for a primary name change. It was, in in February of 2017, via Trimaris.

Old Item: Cormac mac Culeon, to be retained as an alternate name.
Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Spelling most important.

Given name: Kormákr - Geirr Bassi page 13, men's Old Norse Given name, derivative of Irish origin (Cormac)

Surname: Úlfreksson - patryonimic, from St. Gabriel report 3130 - Ulfrekr is found in runic inscriptions from the viking era and cites: [4] Uppsala University Department for Scandianvian Languages, "Samnordisk tuntextdatabas" (http://www.nordiska.uu.se/forskn/samnord.htm

[5]Gutenbrunner, Siegfried, Historische Laut- und Formenlehre de Altisla"ndischen_(Heidelberg: Carl Winter Universita"tsverlag, 1951), Section 47.3

Name Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:53:25
The name is correctly formed. We can cite <Úlfrekr> from a no-photocopy-needed source (See the Administrative Handbook Appendix H, http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html#APPENDIXH): E.H. Lind Dopnamn s.n. <Úlfrekr> col. 1056.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2016-11-03 15:44:55
No conflict

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:18:42
Docs check out, or at least those from Geirr Bassi and the St. Gabriel report do. I wasn't able to access the others.


22: Lionne de la Rochelle -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound (Lionne de la Rochelle) most important.

Given Name: Lionne - 1569, Repetoire des noms de Peronnes Artesiones en 1569, P 2262, Vol 1

de: of

La Rochelle: Locative byname, 1270, Dictionnaire des Noms de Lieux de la France by Preme-Henri Billy P 467

Triskele note: This item was part of the "lost packet" times and will not have a receipt on file. Item is to be considered paid per kingdom policy on that packet in favor of the submitter

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-02 02:46:14
Since the summary doesn't include a full citation I can't be sure, but I think there are typo's in the name of the source given for "Lionne". The title of the text published in 2000 by Roger Berger, Jean-Pierre Pelissier, and Patrick Warin is Répertoire des noms de personnes artésiens en 1569.

By the way, photos of the individual pages of the original registers are available online at http://www.archivespasdecalais.fr/Actualites/Mise-en-ligne-des-roles-d-imposition-du-centieme-de-156 9; if we knew what the text said about the name (specifically, where it was recorded) we could look at the appropriate page and evaluate it directly.



The construction of French toponymics using the preposition "de" requires no further documentation (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixAFrench). Randall Cotgrave's 1611 A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues indicates that in early 17th century French "de" and "la" did not combine (http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cotgrave/974small.html), so it seems likely that de La Rochelle is properly constructed for the 16th century, assuming that "La Rochelle" can be documented as a 16th century place name.

Unfortunately, according to the summary, the source given for "La Rochelle" doesn't establish it as a place name, but as a byname. That difference matters--a period mention of "Jack the Texan" would give you "the Texan" as a locative byname, but that wouldn't mean that there was ever a place named "the Texan", or that "Jack from the Texan" was plausible.

Ioanne Ioliveto's map, Galliae Regni Potentiss, which appears in Abraham Ortelius' 1570 Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, includes "La Rochelle" (https://archive.org/stream/theatrumorbister00orte#page/n53/mode/2up). That should be enough for "de La Rochelle". I haven't seen anything that supports removing the capital letter from the beginning of the place name.

1: Image 1

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 05:36:28
Likely on the "typo" we were trying to decipher handwriting on this form. Correction will be made

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:06:11
Darkwater Commentary Group: no conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:20:05
Neither of the quoted sources is on the "no photocopy" list, so we need to at least have urls which link to them and also summaries of what they say about the names. "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris" by Lord Colm Dubh has Lion d'Acre. -- http://heraldry.sca.org/names/paris.html#L Lionne would be the feminine form as far as we can tell. Since the client wants a masculine name, he might better go with Lion. de la Rochelle is found in 1431 in "Names from Paris, 1408-1449" by Sara L. Uckelman -- http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/paris1408.html No conflicts found.


23: Lucius Domitus Anatolius -Resub Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Per chevron inverted sable and azure, three wolves conjoined in annulo argent.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:10:54
Darkwater Commentary Group: no conflicts found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:21:33
The name Lucius Domitius Anatolius was registered 5/13 via Trimaris. A field parted per chevron needs to be drawn so that the two areas are roughly equal. This line is far too high, making it halfway between "per chevron sable and azure", and "Azure, a chief triangular sable". No conflicts found.


24: Mari Theresa Pomce -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Given name: Mari Theresa: KWHSS2000 proceedings, P 58, Spanish Names from the late 15th century by Juliana de Luna

Surname: Pomce: Romance of Spanish Surnames P. 170-171 by Charles R. Madwell Jr

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2016-11-02 06:30:06
SENA Appendix A for the Iberian language group, notes that double given names do not require further evidence in Catalan or Castilian.

<Mari Roxa> female, married 1599, Valladoid, Spain. Batch no. M87112-8
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FF89-GX8)
<Theresa Fernandez> female, married 1589, Valladoid, Spain. Batch no. M87112-8
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FF89-VP6)

Is the surname Ponce or Pomce? I don't have a copy of Romance of Spanish Surname to check, but "Ponce" is a much more common surname in Spanish (at least with my very limited knowledge of Spanish, and of the Benedictine monk Dom Pedro Ponce de Leon (1520-1584).)

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena (Ensign) at 2016-11-04 21:21:44
About this source in the Academy of St Gabriel:

"Maduell, Jr, Charles R. The Romance of Spanish Surnames. 1967. This book lacks dates and lacks much information necessary for a good SCA name book. Not recommended. (JA)"

I have been searching for a few days. I have determined that indeed it exists, but I have of yet not identified use in our period. I shall keep digging

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:23:05
Darkwater Commentary Group: Recommendation that we need to document the name construction or alter the construction of the name to fit period practice. Recommendation to contact the submitter for alteration of this item.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:22:57
The source cited for the given names is also available at the Medieval Names Archive. It supports both of the given names. Haven't found a source for the surname, but Juliana's article does have Ponçe in her list of patronymic surnames. Rohese did her digging on Family search and found: Name Leonor Pomce Torre Gender Female Christening Date 24 Sep 1581 Christening Place SAGRARIO METROPOLITANO,PUEBLA DE ZARAGOZA,PUEBLA,MEXICO Father's Name Jn. Pomce De Trrialva Mother's Name Mariana De La Torre Indexing Project (Batch) Number K60509-3 System Origin Mexico-ODM GS Film number 227520 -- "México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYYL-K2Z : 2 January 2015), Leonor Pomce Torre, 24 Sep 1581; citing SAGRARIO METROPOLITANO,PUEBLA DE ZARAGOZA,PUEBLA,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 227,520. Not sure if K batches are accepted or not.


25: Mary Merwen -New Name & New Device

Vert, on a lozenge argent, a squirrel rampant vert.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Welsh) most important.
Culture (Welsh) most important.

Given Name: Mary - Biblical

Surname:Merwen

Mer - as in Merwydd, Heraldic Proceedings Caide Heraldic Symposium AS XXIV, P 80

Wen - As in Arianwen, Heraldic Proceedings Caide Heraldic Symposium AS XXIV, P 80

Name Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-02 03:12:29
In order to comment effectively on this name, we need to know to what language(s) and date(s) the mentioned source attributes "Merwydd" and "Arianwen", and what it says that makes you think you can break them in half and stitch bits of them together to make a new name. Were names from whatever context produced them dithematic? Were "Mer-" and "-wen" included in lists of proto- and deuterothemes that can be freely combined? Or is this like saying "Davmas" is a legitimate 21st-century American name because "David" and "Thomas" both are?

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:37:51
Darkwater Commentary Group: Reference Withycomb's for Mary, photocopy pages from heraldry proceedings to check for last name documentation.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:24:23
SENA says that unmarked patronymics are OK in Welsh. Although some languages pretty freely put prothemes and deuterothemes together, we don't believe that Welsh is one of them. See further comments on item 17 above: Harold Merwen. A note: In Wales in period, husband and wife would not have shared a surname. The man would be <name> ap <father's name> and the woman would be <name> verch <father's name>. Sharing a father's name would imply the two were siblings.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:54:40
A squirrel's tail should be as large or larger than the body. In the absence of a maintained acorn, the only clue we have that this is not a domestic cat is the tail, and while the shape is correct for a squirrel, the tail needs to grow.

1: Image 1

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:26:54
Agree that a longer tail would make the squirrel more easily identifiable. The emblazon shows the squirrel as sable rather than vert. Unfortunately there are conflicts whether the squirrel is sable or vert: Kara Ivarsdottir, reg. 2/13 via AEthelmearc: "Vert, on a lozenge argent a turtle vert." One DC for type of tertiary if the squirrel is vert. Amber Lang: reg. 3/94 via Atlantia: "Vert, on a lozenge argent, a cat sejant guardant sable." One DC for type if the squirrel is sable (unless there is another DC for posture).


26: Milesenda de Bourges -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in May of 2004, via the East.

Erminois, a phoenix rising purpure, maintaining a trident gules.

Badge Comments:

Coblaith Muimnech at 2016-11-02 03:22:37
The trident is reasonably evident in the line drawing, but it disappears a little in the colored ones. I had to look pretty closely to see that the head of it wasn't another ermine spot. I think the problem is that the black lines and the purple tines blend together, so it turns into a blob. I don't know for sure, but it could cause a problem with SENA A.2.C.2 (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A2C2).

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 05:39:01
There's not much I can fix about that with markers. Drawn with a computer or with ability to differentiate shades more, black outlines and purple marker do this.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 06:58:13
Also, if others think this is an issue I can try a new drawing with a thinner liner marker which should help.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-14 21:35:57
Darkwater Commentary Group: Submitter is going to withdraw and submit a different design.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:32:51
A phoenix is rising from flames by default, so the term may be dropped. No conflicts found. Agree that the trident looks sable or purpure here.


27: Miyamoto Toramasa -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2012, via Trimaris.

Or, a chevron rompu inverted and enhanced sable, charged with five dragonflies Or.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:33:13
Even though blazoned as enhanced, the chevron is still too high; it shouldn't reach that close to the upper corners of the field. No conflicts found.


28: Moyai-Nidun -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 2001, via Trimaris.

Gules, a peruke and a chief argent, charged with a hand grenade sable.

Returned from society level on August 2016 LOAR due to unidentifiable charge in the appearance of the grenade and peruke.

Redrawn with period image of peruke and clarified hand grenade.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/images/cImages/1822/2016-10-30/20-20-28_showimage.php.jpg

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:34:40
Despite the period example, I don't think I could distinguish between this peruke and a cloak such as the one shown in item 35 below. without a good deal of internal detailing. No conflicts found. Heres's another one of those crowned roundels masquerading as a grenade. No conflicts found.


29: Philippe d'Artaignan -Resub Device

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Philippe d'Artaignan in February of 2007, via Trimaris.

Or, on a saltire between four fleur d'lys azure, a wolf's head erased, between four rapiers in saltire points to center argent.

Resub at both levels.

Device previously decline for: << This device was a resubmission; the original submission was returned on the February 2006 LoAR with the comment:

This device is returned for redraw. The fleur-de-lys was originally blazoned as sustained; however, the wolf and the fleur-de-lys are not touching. The fleur-de-lys and the wolf are not clearly in bend nor clearly in fess; they need to be clearly drawn in one of these arrangements. The fleur-de-lys is heavily outlined and thus appears to be fimbriated sable. A fleur-de-lys is too complex to fimbriate.

The fleur-de-lys no longer appears to be fimbriated and the two charges are now conjoined; however, the fleur-de-lys and the wolf are still not clearly in bend nor clearly in fess. This is again returned for a redraw to place the charges clearly in bend or in fess.>>

The submitter has redrawn the submission with a new positioning for the items.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:35:24
"fleurs-de-lys" Don't believe you can have two tertiary charge groups on a single charge, so either the wolf's head or the rapiers will have to go somewhere else. No conflicts found.


30: Seraphina de Toschanis -Resub Name & Resub Device

Purpure, a unicorn head couped argent maned Or, and on a chief azure, five lozenges Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Italian) most important.

Submitter previously submitted under name: Maria Serafina Toscanna da Venegia which was rejected on an internal letter due to improper naming conventions.

Given name: Seraphina: ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 2939 - [Serafina] was not a common name in period Italy, but it was occasionally used. There was a Saint Seraphina (usually referred to as Santa Fina) who lived in Italy during the 13th century [1], and there was a 15th century [Blessed Seraphina Sforza] and a 16th century [Saint Seraphin of Montegranaro] [2]. Note that these are modern spellings. The period spellings were probably closer to those illustrated by the masculine examples [Seraffo] and [Serafino], from Florence in 1427 [3]. Therefore, [Serafina] is at least a plausible name for 16th century Florence. < http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/2939.txt>

Surname; de Toschanis - It seems a surname that is a more period spelling for [Toscanna] would be [De Toschanis] from the Surnames from a 16th-Century Italian Armorial, by Coblaith Muimnech <http://www.coblaith.net/Names/ItSur/TOS.html>

Submission previously denied at internal due to fimbriation of chief.

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2016-11-01 07:16:56
Serafina is found in "Late Period Italian Women's Names: Florence" by Juliana de Luna, at http://medievalscotland.org/jes/Nuns/Florence.shtml.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:35:51
Maridonna's citation supports the client's spelling of the given name. Surname doc checks out.

Device Comments:

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-02 07:00:32
So just noticed this - which is ludicrous since I did the drawing but - chief is azure, field is purple. Color on color. :facepalm:

Haakon Bjornsson (Gold Axe) at 2016-11-02 09:24:48
It happens to us all upon occasion.

Ephrem Orbeli (Lymphad) (Lymphad) at 2016-11-10 23:03:05
So that's why the chief was originally fimbriated! We fixed one issue and created another. Whoops.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:36:24
No colored chief on a colored field. This would work if the chief were eliminated and the lozenges placed directly on the field. No conflicts found.


31: Shire of Sudrholt -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Fieldless, on a plate a triskele throughout sable, between three acorns proper, within a bordure sable.

To serve as a populace badge for the shire of sudrholt

Badge Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-11-05 01:58:34
Unfortunately, roundels are forms are heraldic display and can't be used in a fieldless badge.

"[April 2002 LoAR, A-Æthelmearc] Solveig Throndardottir. Badge. (Fieldless) A lozenge Or. We do not register fieldless badges which appear to be independent forms of armorial display. Charges such as lozenges, billets, and roundels are all both standard heraldic charges and "shield shapes" for armorial display. The SCA has never protected armory consisting of plain tinctures, except for two examples that are particularly famous: the (important non-SCA) arms of Brittany, Ermine, and the (important non-SCA) flag of Libya, Vert. If we do not protect, and have never protected, the arms Or, we should not be concerned about the possible appearance of a display of Or by using a single lozenge Or as a fieldless badge. This is parallel to our practices concerning inescutcheons of pretense. To quote RfS XI.4, Arms of Pretense and Augmentations of Honor, "Similarly, an augmentation of honor often, though not necessarily, takes the form of an independent coat placed on an escutcheon or canton. Generally, therefore, a canton or a single escutcheon may only be used if it is both uncharged and of a single tincture." This rule demonstrates that an uncharged escutcheon shape in a single plain tincture does not appear to be a display of an independent coat of arms. Therefore, a "shield shape" which is also a standard heraldic charge will be acceptable as as a fieldless badge in a plain tincture, as long as the tincture is not one of the plain tinctures that is protected armory in the SCA. This explicitly overturns the precedent "We do not normally register fieldless badges consisting only of forms of armorial display, such as roundels, lozenges and delfs in plain tinctures, since in use the shape does not appear to be a charge, but rather the field itself" (LoAR January 1998). Note that this does not change our long-standing policy about such "shield shape" charges used in fieldless badges if the tincture is not plain (thus, divided or with a field treatment), or if the charge is itself charged. Such armory will continue to be returned for the appearance of an independent form of armorial display."

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-11-05 02:19:57
Submitted as a fielded badge with the bordure extending all the way to the edge. Once it is registered, they can display it one a roundel.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-07 08:35:16
Thank you - that's a good solution so I'll redraw this for next with a new blazon with the client's approval.

Matilda Wynter at 2016-11-12 09:54:14
also, if it's fieldless these acorns are hanging in space...they must be touching something or it wont work :)

Haakon Bjornsson (Gold Axe) at 2016-11-12 10:15:24
Actually the acorns are on the plate.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:37:19
The group name should be submitted as "Sudrholt, Shire of". They can't register armory without a registered group name. That's not a bordure; you can't have one on a fieldless badge. Don't know about Trimaris, but in some kingdoms, a group can't even be recognized without a registered name. Call it an annulet instead of a plate. Unfortunately fieldless badges must have all their charges touching, but these acorns are clearly not touching either the triskele or the annulet. BTW, the acorns are not proper; those have brown bodies and caps.


32: Sigrun Ionsdottir -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2015, via Trimaris.

Argent, three poppies gules, seeded Or, and a chief embattled vert.

Previously submitted and returned on the 04-2016 LOAR: << * Sigrun Ionsdottir. Device. Argent, three four-leaved clovers gules seeded Or and a chief embattled vert.

Blazoned as poppies on the Letter of Intent, these are not recognizable as such. Since it appears that the submitter actually wants poppies, we are returning this device for redraw so the submitter can have the charge they want without being charged a fee for a device change. If they wants this depiction even though it cannot be blazoned as poppies, then the submitter may submit a request for reconsideration.

An example of heraldic poppy can be seen in Hierosme de Bara's Blazon des armoiries https://books.google.com/books?id=4AhJAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q&f=false>>

Item has been redrawn, with submitter's permission, as heraldic poppies with the above image as reference.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2016-11-01 15:57:29
The cited reference image is from 1528 and thus period. However, SCA heraldry usually depicts poppies like roses, so that they are not trian but rather viewed from the top and spread out.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-01 22:50:17
Please see above link in description for image of period heraldic poppy. These were drawn directly from that image, previously provided by a herald in commentary.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:38:50
Guess these will do. I wouldn't recognize them as poppies; I'd probably think of "garden" (post-period hybrid) roses. No conflicts found. BTW, the crenelations of the chief should be as deep as they are wide.


33: Taz Mongojin -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2016, via Trimaris.

Per chevron sable and gules, a chevron fracted and in dexter chief a martel in bend argent.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:40:54
The hammer is not in bend, but bendwise. According to the PicDic, the hammer is sometimes blazoned as a martel for canting purposes, but that's not the case here. Better to use the more recognizable term. The chevron is reasonably placed, but the partition line should bisect the chevron so that the lower part of it would show the sable field above it rather than the gules. No conflicts found.


34: Tiberius Aurelius Magnus -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

Chevronelly argent and azure, on a pale sable a gladius inverted argent.

Device previously returned on 03-2016 LOAR for <<Although changing the field tincture from gules to azure has removed the previously existing conflict, the issue of the identifiability of the field tincture has not been resolved. Thus, this device is returned because the pale obscures the per pale line of division, making it impossible to distinguish this counterchanged field from a straightforward chevronelly argent and azure field.>>

Item has been redrawn with submitter approval for a straightforward chevronelly field.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:41:32
As drawn, this is not chevronelly argent and azure, but argent with two chevronels azure. "Argent, two chevronels azure and overall on a pale sable a gladius inverted argent." No conflicts found.


35: Trimaris, Kingdom of -New Order Name & New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Order of the Argent Mantle of Trimaris

Azure, a mantle argent.

New Rapier order, Triskele will entertain suggested changes, if any, to avoid conflict.

Order Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:42:28
Trimaris, Kingdom of. This branch-name was registered in December of 1985 (via Trimaris). The format of the order name should be submitted as "Argent Mantle of Trimaris, Order of". No conflicts found.

Badge Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Golden Dolphin) at 2016-11-05 02:27:41
Consider Morgan Donner The following device associated with this name was registered in March of 2015 (via An Tir): Gules, a cloth waist-apron strings loose argent. 1 DC for changes to field. I don't know if there is a DC for an apron vs a mantle. they are both listed as clothing other in the O and A.

Milesenda de Bourges (Triskele) at 2016-11-07 08:36:07
other thoughts? I'd rather not chance it and can put a border on it for an additional DC as it's important these get through process sooner rather than later.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:42:48
No conflicts found.


36: Trimaris, Kingdom of -New Order Name & New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Order of the Azure Brace of Trimaris

Argent, per pale two swords crossed in saltire and a triskele azure.

New Rapier order, Triskele will entertain suggested changes, if any, to avoid conflict.

Order Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:43:12
Trimaris, Kingdom of. This branch-name was registered in December of 1985 (via Trimaris). The format of the order name should be submitted as "Argent Brace of Trimaris, Order of". No conflicts found.

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:43:47
The charges are in pale, not per pale. The Or detailing of the swords should be blazoned. No conflicts found.


37: Trimaris, Kingdom of -New Order Name & New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Order of the Azure Glove of Trimaris

Argent, a glove and a bordure wavy azure.

New Rapier order, Triskele will entertain suggested changes, if any, to avoid conflict.

Order Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:44:14
Trimaris, Kingdom of. This branch-name was registered in December of 1985 (via Trimaris). The format of the order name should be submitted as "Azure Glove of Trimaris, Order of". No conflicts found.

Badge Comments:

Konstantia Kaloethina (Gold Falcon Emerita) at 2016-11-03 21:40:28
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:44:35
No conflicts found.


38: Valeria Victoria de Deva -Resub Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Spelling (Keeping the cognomen) most important.

Submission originally bounced at kingdom for the locative use of "of chester". Submitter has chosen to go with de Deva as a proper locative.

Roman, wife of a merchant living in the civilian settlement at Deva (Castra Legionis- modern:Chester) in 116 AD- providing goods to other citizens and the 20th legion stationed at the fortress. See print outs for the documentation of the name/use/building of Deva.

Since my (fictitious) father's name was Valerius Victor, my name would be the feminine version of both his nomen and cognomen. As the only daughter I do not need additional qualifiers (such as Major/Minor or Elder/Younger).

Nomen/nomen gentilicium:

Valeria (female- documentation)

http://inslib.kcl.ac.uk/irt2009/indices/attested/gentilicium/attested_gentilicium-latV.html (see print out)

Cognomen:

Victoria (female- documentation)

http://inslib.kcl.ac.uk/irt2009/indices/attested/cognomen/attested_cognomen-latV.html

"As in men's names, the cognomen followed the nomen. Thus, the typical pattern for an Imperial Roman woman's name is: Feminine Nomen + Feminine Cognomen" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/roman.html#women) and "Women did not have a praenomen, but took the feminine form of their father's family name (nomen / gentilicium) and sometimes the feminine form of his cognomen." http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/reference/names.shtml "Feminine form of the name, typically formed by changing -us to -a."

dices/attested/gentilicium/attested_gentilicium-latV.html

The cited source for the nomen and cognomen is The Inscriptions of Roman Tripolitania (http://inslib.kcl.ac.uk/irt2009/index.html).

Locative -

Latin locatives are either [placename in genitive] or de [placename in ablative], and the latter is post-clasical. Thus, "Valeria Victoria Devae" or "Valeria Victoria de Devā" would be proper Latin.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2016-11-23 16:45:18
Elements look OK, and SENA seems to support this combination for a late Latin name. No conflicts found.



OSCAR counts 12 Names, 1 Name Change, 3 Order Names, 21 Devices and 13 Badges. There are a total of 50 items submitted on this letter.