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Trimaris ILoI dated 2015-01-31

Greetings from the Lymphad Herald of the Kingdom of Trimaris,

Welcome esteemed commenters to the January 31st, 2015 KLoI of Trimaris.

Please accept the following submissions or your consideration.

I would like to send out a special thanks to my deputies and all of the Heralds of Trimaris who pitched in to help and make this letter possible and the job manageable.

1: Cicilia d'Este -New Release of Alternate Name

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2008, via Trimaris

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Cicilia d'Este(8/2008)

Cecilia d'Este

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.

Cecilia: documented from "Fourteenth Century Venetian Personal Names" by Arval Benicoeur,

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14.

d'Este: - previously registered.

The client is making a change in the spelling of her given name to a more preferred version. She would like to release the previous name.

Alternate Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-01 22:29:50
This should be a Name Change not an Alternate Name. It should be listed in the letter under the new name spelling. Cicilia d'Este was registered in August of 2008 (via Trimaris) and its disposition is to be released. The byname is grandfathered to the submitter.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:23:32
Agreed, but the documentation for the Cecilia form is good.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:09:02
Doc for "Cecilia" checks out.


2: Elinor Gyles -New Name & New Device

Vert, on an open book argent a rapier inverted bendwise on the dexter page and a quill pen bendwise sinister on the sinister page sable.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Spelling most important.

Elinor:

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/christian/fairnames/givennames.html#women

Surnames

Gyles: pat. from the vernacular form of Lat Egidius (4)

Gyles Cordwainer, 1576 1; Dowgate, 1582 1; Farringdon Within, 1541 1; Tower, 1582 1; (3) Giles Billingsgate, 1582 1; Cheap, 1576 1, 1582 1

http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/tudorlondon.pdf page 60 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/eng1450to1600.shtml to Dictionary of Tudor London Names, by Aryanhwy merch

Name Comments:

Song Zidie at 2015-02-02 02:24:08
Cited material for <Gyles> is on page _numbered_ 56, which is page 60 of the PDF file. I'd recommend using the real in-document number given by the author.

Documentation otherwise confirmed. No conflict found.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-03 02:23:32

To simplify: FamilySearch Historical Records
Elinor Female Burial Date: 16 Oct 1576 Bosbury, Hereford, England Batch Number: B00358-7
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J8RH-J6N
William Gyles Male Burial Date: 02 Aug 1563 St. Botolph Aldgate, London, England Batch Number: B02101-3
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRXH-6TT

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:28:08
The unmarked patronymic works, but this documents the surname. Looks fine to me, and no conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:09:30
Docs check out. Unmarked patronymics are not rare in English.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:09:53
No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire (Commenter (BLS)) at 2015-02-19 14:29:07
I am afraid that as blazoned the tertiary charges run into the dread " Unity of Posture and Orientation", http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A3D2c.

The charges within a charge group should be in either identical postures/orientations or an arrangement that includes posture/orientation (in cross, combatant, or in pall points outward, for example). A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period examples of that combination of postures.
Once reblazoned with in chevron inverted to get past the first sentence of the rule, we'll come to the second sentence; keep reading.

Vert, on an open book argent in chevron inverted a rapier inverted and a quill pen sable

I argue as Elmet did for a similar case at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=48959: That since blazoning the rapier as inverted and not applying the same adjective to the pen is purely a matter of SCA choice, not reflecting period concepts of good design, the prohibition against individual blazoning should not apply.

[Edited to make reference more accurate and add link.]

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:32:01
This is probably going to be a wreath call, but as written the rule would seem, as least technically, to apply.


3: Elyzabeth of Cumberland -New Name & New Device

Per chevron inverted a lion passant vert and a harp Or.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Culture (Tudor, 16th Century) most important.

Elyzabeth:

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Elizabeth

of Cumberland:

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/bynames/

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-03 03:24:25

Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames by Talan Gwynek
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Elizabeth
s.n. Elizabeth has Elyzabeth from 1524, 1566.
FamilySearch Historical Records
Richard Pallmer marriage
Spouse's Name: Mgaret. Cumberland 10 Sep 1598 Aldringham, Suffolk, England Batch Number: M06250-2
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL94-QYL

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:10:36
Given name doc checks out. Don't see the surname in the reference given, but R&W's entry for "Cumberland" has citations for several spellings including John Comerlond from 1524. He gives no dated citations for the modern spelling.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-03 18:33:48
Cumberland is found in Tudor, 16th Century as she wished. I think just plain Cumberland would be a more likely name in that century. However, she allows NO major changes so the 'of' stays.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:36:26
I Agree with Magnus that <Elyzabeth Cumberland> would be a most likely 16th century choice, but if she does not allow major changes the name would have to be sent on as it is. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Brenna Lowri o Ruthin at 2015-02-01 23:51:33
This is a regular per chevron division and it seems the colored form was not completely colored in if the harp is supposed to be Or. I would currently blazon this as "Per chevron argent and vert, a lion passant and a harp counterchanged".

No conflict found.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:39:38
Agreed. The harp, as emblazoned, is reversed argent, or reversed counterchanged. I would prefer to see the lion have more weight. No conflicts found, however.

Arwyn of Leicester at 2015-02-02 02:40:12
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:11:30
The harp is facing to sinister, most commonly blazoned as "a harp reversed". Agree that the field is per chevron. Wish the lion were stretched to more nearly fill its field. No conflicts found whether the harp is argent or Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire (Commenter (BLS)) at 2015-02-19 14:34:36
So if y'all can get (or with permission create) a properly colored form:

Per chevron inverted argent and vert, a lion passant vert and a harp reversed Or


4: Finnguala inghean Alusdair -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2008, via Trimaris

Argent on a golpe a snail within an orle of five snails all contourny Or.

Badge Comments:

Arwyn of Leicester at 2015-02-02 02:42:16
No conflicts found. Could also be blazoned as a semi of snails. Neither was found in conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:13:04
Inclined to agree with Arwyn: "Argent, a golpe semy of snails contourny Or." "snaily contourny"? No conflicts found.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:42:03
I also agree. No conflicts found either way.

Beorhthanc Thuck (Beothuk) at 2015-02-22 11:49:32
No conflicts found. Wonderful looking Badge.


5: Finnguala inghean Alusdair -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Fieldless, a snail contourny purpure.

Badge Comments:

Arwyn of Leicester at 2015-02-02 02:43:37
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:12:25
No conflicts found.

Beorhthanc Thuck (Beothuk) at 2015-02-22 11:55:10
No conflicts found. Like to say I'm impressed with the conflict avoidance of this one with both badge submissions, similar elements and well put together....Esclarmonde de Porcairages

The following badge associated with this name was registered in September of 2003 (via An Tir): Purpure, a snail Or.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:43:31
An example of simple armory still being available. No conflicts found.


6: Gideon Graym -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Gwydion Gwirion(10/1989)

Sabla, a rapier entwined by a snake and a chief embattled aregent,

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Gideon (1)

Gedeon Aldgate, 1582

http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/tudorlondon.pdf page 16 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/eng1450to1600.shtml to Dictionary of Tudor London Names, by Aryanhwy merch Catmael)

Graym GAT 1611

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/parish/surnames_g.html

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:14:04
Withycombe's entry for "Gideon" has no dated citations but says it was adopted by English Puritans. R&W's entry for "Graham" quotes Black for the Scots form "Graym" dated 1467.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-03 20:40:40

FamilySearch Historical Records
Gideon Gist marriage
Spouse's Name: Joanna Treveighan Date: 1588 Lanteglos By Camelford, Cornwall, England Batch Number: M02308-1
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ1J-DPG

Wylliam Graym Spouse's Name: Isabell Huntley Date: 24 Sep 1611 Gateshead, Durham, England Batch Number: M00059-1
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZ9-LXH

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:49:40
No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:14:46
"Sable" "argent" The sword is inverted. Strong visual resemblance to Merfyn Gareth ap Mouric, reg. 7/96 via Ansteorra: "Sable, an Aaron's rod argent." There's clearly a DC for the chief, but is there another for the primary charge(s)?

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:47:41
This might well be a visual call. As Green Anchor points out, the primary charge could very well have too much visual similarity.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-24 20:45:35

Blazon as: "Sable, a rapier inverted entwined by a snake and a chief embattled argent."
The staff of Aesculapius is a single charge whereas this submission has two co-primary charges. They are clear by change of number of the primary group.

[February 2009 LoAR, A-An Tir] Tymothy of Dover. Device. Azure, a ram rampant sustaining a staff of Aesculapius, tip enflamed argent.
The staff of Aesculapius is considered a single charge, and thus this device cannot suffer from the so-called slot machine problem, since there are only two charge types in this device.
[July 2000 LoAR, A-Atenveldt] Gareth of Bloodwine Gorge. Badge. (Fieldless) A sword inverted entwined by a serpent argent.
This is clear of Barbara Fitzhugh de Brandhard, Azure, a sword inverted proper entwined widdershins of a poppy proper. As with the snake, the poppy is large enough to count as a co-primary charge and therefore there are CDs for changing the type and tincture of half the primary charge group.

1: Image 1


7: Kara Aðulfdottir -New Name & New Device

Per pile azure and argent, a dragon head erased sable horned gules.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.

Kára: The Old Norse Name Geirr Bassi Haraldsson Pg.12

Aðulfdottir: Að is in Fellows-Jensen, Gillian. Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Copenhagen. Akademisk Forlag. 1968. pg 342.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml

Correction to Name (2015-Feb-02 04:02:31): Both the name and device are resubmissions.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:15:19
Given name doc checks out. The constructed father's name seems reasonable.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2015-02-03 19:29:37
I don't see <Aðulf> either in the snippet google book (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hQIJAQAAIAAJ) or on Orle's Viking Answer Lady page. There is <Adúlfr> in Geirr Bassi p. 7 though.
Which would make the byname (with no accents) <Adulfsdottir>.

Would Collyne Lymphad be able to see if the supplied documentation has any more information?

Edit: Shannon Lewis-Simpson. 2011. "Assimilation or Hybridization? A Study of Personal Names from the Danelaw" Other Nations. The hybridization of insular mythology and identity (Winter Verlag); 13-44.
https://www.academia.edu/5306589/ASSIMILATION_OR_HYBRIDIZIATION_A_STUDY_OF_PERSONAL_NAMES_FROM_THE_D ANELAW
Doesn't have anything beginning with Ad- or Að- in the appendices, either.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-04 00:47:21
Wills and Will-Making in Anglo-Saxon England by Linda Tollerton 2011. Aðulf or Æthelwulf is referenced in King Alfred's will dated about the 890s on page 82.

Aðulf is an Old English name that would have to be placed in the genitive case and add dohtor to form a patronymic. Old Norse uses -dóttir. Normally, we would correct the spelling to get rid of the language mix of Old English/Old Norse in the same name phrase under SENA PN.1.B.1.

The submitter however allows NO Major Changes so this will need to be returned for documentation of this language mix in a patronymic or documentation of Aðulf as an Old Norse name.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-04 03:45:14
I would guess the previous submission was Kára Kveldulfsdóttir on the Trimaris ILoI - 2014-07-16.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-01 23:09:24
It appears clear. How a sable dragon's head escaped registration escapes me.

I would guess the previous submission was Kára Kveldulfsdóttir on the Trimaris ILoI - 2014-07-16.

Brenna Lowri o Ruthin at 2015-02-01 23:59:57
I would call this "Azure, on a pile throughout argent, a dragon's head erased sable horned gules". The erasing is very poorly drawn and may need to be beefed up. I have seen submissions returned for poor erasing.

Astonishingly, no conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:19:50
There is no such partition as "per pile". Agree with Brenna's blazon. Current practice tends to omit details like the tincture of the horns, but it's better to include it to insure correct reproduction of the device. I'd draw the pile no wider than one half the width of the escutcheon, while this is approximately ¾ of its width. This is the sort of rendering of a pile that causes confusion with chaussé, Agree about the rendering of "erased". No conflicts found.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 08:55:49
Also agree with the reblazon as "Azure, on a pile throughout argent a dragon's head erased sable", though the dragon's head is only barely "erased" with the jagged line so very understated.


8: Milesendade Bourges -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Correction to Badge (2015-Feb-04 17:02:25): The name associated with this submission is Milesenda de Bourges

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-01 22:42:52

This may be Milesenda de Bourges registered in May of 2004 (via the East).
Blazon as: "Purpure, semy of hearts Or."
The appears to conflict with William MacNess
The following device associated with this name was registered in April of 2002 (via AEthelmearc):
Gules, semy of hearts Or.

Arwyn of Leicester at 2015-02-02 02:46:10
Agree with the conflict. DC for background only.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:20:19
Can't dispute Magnus' conflict call.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 09:00:59
I didn't see a blazon with this submission, but "Purpure semy of hearts Or" does clearly conflict with William MacNess' "Gules, semy of hearts Or". No arguments there.


9: Veronica Azalina -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Veronique l'Amie(6/1995)

Sable, in bend a compass star and a windmill Or.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.

Veronica: is a feminine given name appearing in "Feminine Given Names from Thirteenth Century Perugia" by Arval Benicoeur (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/perugia/perugiaFemAlpha.html) and in "Names from Sixteenth Century Venice," by Juliana de Luna (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/16thcvenice.html).

Azalina: Veronica Franco vs. Maffio Venier: sex, death, and poetry in Cinquecento Venice.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Veronica+Franco+vs.+Maffio+Venier%3a+sex%2c+death%2c+and+poetry+in...- a0164102986

(21) The catalogue, which exists in ms. (ca. 1564), gives a price index for "tutte le principal et piu honorate cortigiane di Venetia." The most anyone charged at that time was 30 scudi (Paulina Filla), followed by the 25 scudi fee of Livia Azalina, "princess of all the courtesans of Venice." At that stage in her career, which was quite early, Veronica charged 2 scudi, as did her mother (Masson 153 and Diberti Leigh 17ff).

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:20:41
Docs check out.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 09:03:40
Documentation looks sufficient, and no conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:21:03
No conflicts found.

Arwyn of Leicester at 2015-02-08 09:19:59
Also no conflicts found.

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 09:04:25
No conflicts found.


10: Ysabella the Archer -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2012, via Trimaris

Argent, a dragon azure maintaining an arrow vert, in base a tower azure.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2015-02-03 16:21:35
The arrow is inverted. No conflicts found.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-04 03:33:49

Consider Harðbeinn eldr shown below.
The following device associated with this name was registered in January of 2003 (via the East):
"Argent, a wyvern passant within a bordure rayonny azure."

Based on these rulings there is nothing for the field, the maintained arrow, the type dragon versus wyvern, or the posture for a dragon versus a wyvern. There is one DC for change of type of the secondary group from a bordure rayonny to a tower.
[September 2009 LoAR, R-Outlands] Þóra Hrónarsdóttir http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/09/09-09lar.html
[December 2002 LoAR, R-Lochac] Gawyne d'Ibelin http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/12/02-12lar.html

1: Image 1

Bronwen o Gydweli (White Antelope) at 2015-02-24 09:08:32
I can see granting no DC for a dragon segreant vs. a wyvern erect, but does precedent give no DC for a dragon segreant vs. a wyvern passant?

Magnus von Lübeck at 2015-02-24 10:03:01

Wyverns and dragons can be a royal pain in the emblazon.
Wyverns and dragons get no DC from each other but one is a winged biped and the other is a winged quadruped. The rulings on these reptilian beasts (and hydras) change at times from Wreath to Wreath. Here is the current standing:
[September 2014 LoAR, A-West]
Esther of Darkhaven. Reblazon of badge. Argent, a wyvern erect contourny wings addorsed sable. Reblazoned in January 2014 as Argent, a wyvern segreant contourny sable, wyverns have only two legs and thus cannot be segreant.

My reading of SENA is if a wyvern cannot be segreant then it cannot get a DC versus a segreant creature for posture.


Yours in Service,

Lord Collyne Greymoire

Lymphad Herald of the Kingdom of Trimaris


OSCAR counts 5 Names, 6 Devices and 3 Badges. There is 1 release. There are a total of 15 items submitted on this letter.