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Trimaris ILoI dated 2014-04-06

Greetings from the Lymphad Herald of the Kingdom of Trimaris,

Welcome to the first letter of the newest Lymphad Herald of Trimaris.

Please accept the following submissions that were collected during Gulf Wars from the land of the three seas for your consideration.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2014-04-29 20:05:43
Comments under my name are the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, consisting this month of Lady Brigida von München, Saker Herald, Lord Caoimhin McKee, Sanglier Rouge Herald Extraordinary, Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant, and myself.

1: Cáelainn ingen Máedóc -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for 12th century Irish.

Name Notes:

Consulting Herald: Herveus, herveus@gmail.com

Cáelainn: Ó Corrain & Maguire s.n. Cáelfind - feminine name

ingen Máedóc: Ó Corrain & Maguire s.n. Máedóc, a daughter of Máedóc - a male name

Please help providing missing information for the documentation.

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2014-04-07 04:32:03

No conflict found.

Index of Names in Irish Annals: Máedóc by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Maedoc.shtml Found in Years: 624, 625, 660

The early dates makes me think it refers to a saint but would have to check the Annals referenced.

Alys Mackyntoich (Blue Tyger) at 2014-04-07 16:44:40
This name is not authentic for the 12th century.

First, <Cáelainn> is documented only as a saint's name. We have no evidence that it was used as late as the 12th century or, in fact, used by anyone but the saint.

Second, we have no evidence that <Máedóc> was used as late as the 12th century. Mari's "Index of Names in Irish Annals" (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Maedoc.shtml) dates this name to 624, 625, 660.

While the name is registerable, it is much more likely to be an Old Irish name than a 12th cen. one.

Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Schwarzdrachen) at 2014-04-14 01:09:14
<Máedóc> needs to be in the genitive case following <ingen>, which I believe would be <Máedóic>, if the terminal element is the same as the descriptive byname <Óc> (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Oc.shtml).

Lenition of <M> does not show in Old and Middle Irish orthography, so the byname is otherwise correct.

Sadb ingen Thuathail at 2014-04-18 00:24:20

OMC pg 41; the commentary on the name says: "The best known bearer of this name was St [sic] Cáelainn, a virgin saint of the Ciarrage in Connacht, whose feast-day is 3 [sic] February."

The Gabriel letter makes it clear the saint is known in the 13th C: Beatrix Fa"rber, et. al., "Annals of Loch Ce/" (WWW: CELT: Corpus of Electronic Texts: a project of University College, Cork, Ireland, 2003). Entry LC1224.15 reads, "Goill & Muimhnigh do dol fa Termann Caoil Finn, & do cuiredh a/r na n-Gall tre/ fertuibh Cail Fhind." (Translated as, "The Foreigners and Momonians attacked Termann-Caelfhinn; and a slaughter of the Foreigners was committed through the miracles of Caelfhinn.") The first four digits of the entry number are the year of the events recorded. http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G100010A/index.html

The relevant slice of The Annals of the Four Masters, http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100005C/text006.html, which is undoubtedly Early Modern Irish has this for the same incident: M1225.28 Muimhnigh & Goill do dhul fo Tearmann Caolainne, ár na n-Gall do cor don toisc-sin tre feartaibh Dé & Caolainne.

The Martyrology of Donegal <http://www.archive.org/details/martyrologydone00reevgoog>, p. 373, cites Caoilfhionn whose memorial day is 3 Febraruary.

<Máedóc> O'Brien's "Index of Names in Irish Annals" at http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/MaelMaedoc.shtml shows a standard middle Irish form Máel Máedoc for a name associated with annalistic dates of 909, 915, 917, 951, 1124, 1132, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1147, 1148, 1156, 1170, 1252 and 1347. Given the usual formation of names using Máel, one can assume that the second element should be a valid genitive form.

This website also references Máedóc (OCM pg 129-130; my copy is pg 128-129)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2014-04-29 20:06:08
Schwarzdrachen has answered our questions about the patronymic. No conflicts found.

2: Layla al-Bahr -New Name & New Device

Argent, in pale a skull sable and two natural stemmed roses proper in saltire within a bordure argent.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (Layla of the Sea) most important.

Name Notes:

Name Consulting Herald: Sisuile Butler, sisuile@gmail.com

Device Consulting Herald: Collyne Greymoire, greymoire@aol.com

Construction from Jewish Women's Names in Arab context


Layla: - from Jewish Women's Names

Bahr: - Arabic for "sea"

Please help providing missing information for the documentation.

Correction (2014-Apr-06 11:04:32): Argent, in pale a skull sable and two natural stemmed roses proper in saltire within a bordure azure.

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2014-04-07 02:11:28

Layla is listed as a given name. The Geniza is an excellent source.
Bahr was not in any of our regular Arabic articles but I did find this ruling and report which document the word Bahr - sea.
[June 2013 LoAR, A-An Tir] Gulli ha-Kuzarit.
In order to be temporally compatible with the given name, the byname would have to be dated to 1240 or later (as the name mixes languages, the elements must be within 300 years of one another). While the Khazars as an ethnic group seem to have disappeared before that time, place names that use that element continued to exist. These names include the Caspian Sea (Bahr al-Khazar). This is enough to give the submitter the benefit of the doubt that a locative byname might continue to identify someone from this area as ha-Kuzarit and allow the name to be registered.

Your nisba, <al-Bahri>, is correct, but we don't think it is appropriate for your persona. The word <bah.r> apparently means both "river" and "sea" [10, 13], and <bah.rii> means "Nile boatman". We've found <bah.rii> used as a nisba in Cairo around 1100 [15].

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2014-04-29 20:07:52
My Arabic is pretty much limited to what I've picked up from commentary, but it does appear that her name means "the sea" rather than "of the sea". If such a form exists in Arabic, I'd expect the feminine form to be something like "al-Bahriyya". Hope someone more fluent in the language can chime in here. No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2014-04-06 20:56:55

This seems much more like a Grateful Dead t-shirt design or tattoo flash than period heraldic style. SENA A.2.C.1 (http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A2C1): "Elements must be drawn in their period forms and in a period armorial style.... Depictions that are excessively modern may be returned."

Blazon-fu: Argent, in pale a skull sable and two roses stemmed and leaved proper in saltire within a bordure argent.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michel von Schiltach at 2014-04-08 02:28:18
Blazon-fu:Argent, in pale a skull sable and two roses stemmed and leaved proper in saltire within a bordure azure.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2014-04-07 04:24:53
No conflict found. Compare with the skull from the SCA Pic Dic.

1: Image 1

Arwyn of Leicester at 2014-04-14 15:30:40
Although SENA A.2.C.1 does state that it should not be overly modern, we have very few items returned. I highly suggest that the excessively modern be a decision for wreath.

I don't see it as excessively modern.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2014-04-29 20:09:52
Don't understand what's going on in the skull's eye sockets (something different in each of the three emblazons), but none of the rest of the group seems to be bothered by this. Contrary to our rules on period forms of artifacts, we continue to allow the use of modern tea roses like these. They are normally blazoned as simply roses; in this case, "roses gules slipped and leaved vert". The heraldic rose is exactly what a "natural" wild rose looks like, right down to the shape of the petals. The blazon indicates that the skull and the roses are coprimary, but the emblazon looks more like the skull is the sole primary and the roses are secondary. Wish it were drawn more clearly as one or the other. Won't comment on whether or not the client is proclaiming herself to be a Dead Head, but the question does arise. No conflicts found.

3: Michael Gyllis -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound (Mi-kel Gil-less) most important.

Name Notes:

Consulting Herald: Sofya la Rus, sofya@heraldshill.org

Michael: - 1346 in Withycombe

Gyllis: - s.n. Gillies, Reaney & Wilson

Please help providing missing information for the documentation.

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2014-04-07 01:50:07
No conflict found. Withycombe s.n. Michael dates the name from 1196-1215, 1218, 1303, 1346.

Reaney & Wilson s.n. Gillies dates John Gyllis from 1521.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2014-04-29 20:10:24
No conflicts found.

Yours in Service,

Lord Collyne Greymoire

Lymphad Herald of Trimaris

OSCAR counts 3 Names and 1 Device. There are a total of 4 items submitted on this letter.