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Northshield ILoI dated 2019-10-23

Greetings unto Baron Iohannes Glenfidanus, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield September Internal Letter. Comments are due by November 20, 2019.

1: Rúna Úlfriðardóttir -New Device

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as R?na ?lfri?ard?ttir in March of 2019, via Northshield.

Per chevron sable and azure, a swan statant and in chief two pairs of swords in saltire argent

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-10-24 00:13:30
The charges are co-primaries. The swan is close.

Per chevron sable and azure, two pairs of swords in saltire and a swan close argent

Lewke verch Gwilim at 2019-11-05 19:16:01
We checked; there is no default position for Swans.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-11-05 19:38:29
Although I'm told http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html#default is not perfectly up to date, it says rousant, and http://mistholme.com/dictionary/swan/ confirms.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-11-05 23:51:37
I didn't say anything about a default posture, nor did I blazon using one.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-10-24 00:14:25
The line of division is too low. It should be balanced around the fess-line and roughly divide the field in half.

Hallerna stjornukona at 2019-10-29 21:01:52
Assuming the per chevron gets drawn correctly, no conflicts found.

Kryss Kostarev at 2019-10-30 12:24:44
Here is the emblazon with a proper per chevron. Someone will need to make sure the submitter approves it.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Katerinka Lvovicha at 2019-11-05 19:25:04
The commenting group thinks this emblazon looks like a pile inverted, not a chevron.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-11-05 19:54:37
It's a steep 'per chevron', but it's fine. It couldn't be a pile, as that would violate the rule of tincture.

Katerinka Lvovicha at 2019-11-05 19:31:53
Consider the chevron emblazon on the 10-2018 LoAR - Sebestyen Anastasia - Resub Device: Per chevron argent and gules, in cross three birds migrant sable and a sun argent.

Per the commentary from Gunnvor Orle, the chevron division should be about 2/3rds of the way up the escutcheon. An image was included: https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=520/2014-11-05/14-05-24_Aetheria_de_Fleaury_Device_BW.jpg

We think that the chevron line should be scooched up a bit and widened so as to not blur the line between a chevron and a pile inverted.

https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=87681

Gwenlliana Clutterbooke at 2019-11-05 19:36:25
Since the internal letter is often used by newer heralds it's helpful to cite the reason this is being discussed. The cover letter for May 2011 states that

Per chevron lines of division, chevrons as a primary charge, and their inversions should have their mid-line placed roughly on the notional mid-line of the space available to them.

If substantially more of the charge or line appears to be on one side of the field's notional mid-line as compared to the amount on the other side, the submission will be returned for a redraw or re-design.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-11-05 19:43:55
And that decree, at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/05/11-05cl.html declares, "Examples provided in commentary did present evidence that in period, chevrons and the per chevron line of division were typically drawn to take up as much space as possible; this generally meant that the line was fairly steep, throughout, or nearly so." The revised version meets that description as well as its line being evenly above and below the per-fess line.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-11-05 19:44:46
Which is why per-chevron designs are routinely to be checked against piles inverted and vice versa.

Tancorix inigena Bivaidonas at 2019-11-08 10:11:53
"The end result is that per chevron lines of division alone on the field, or between three charges, should not be entirely, or even mostly, below where a per fess line would be. Chevrons which are shallow enough to be confused with a fess remain unregisterable."

This snippet of the May 2011 LoAR discussed below is a lot easier to wrap my head around than the other language quoted. The submitted emblazon definitely has the azure portion of the field too far below the fess line. Both a steep and shallow chevron properly centered would work for a redraw, but we can all agree the original emblazon isn't drawn correctly.

Personally, for aesthetic reasons I'd use a shallow chevron, to match the way the swords and swan are drawn in the original. I believe a steep chevron would be helped by crossing the swords at a matching steep angle. has the client been talked to about it yet? (Forgive my sharpie and ballpoint sketch, I'm on break at work.)

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-11-08 12:44:54
Those hatched sketches make your point eloquently. Once submitter decides how to modify her submission, one could be an excellent basis for a clean result.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-11-09 13:01:38
Kryss' emblazon looks very satisfactory. Hope the client likes it as well.

Kryss Kostarev at 2019-11-20 12:44:35
I used one of the standard per chevron fields in the traceable art that has been used by many, many devices before. I chose the steep chevron over the shallower one because it matched more closely to the submitter's original art. As for the how the swords cross, I just transferred the submitter's swords over to the new field with no modification. If the submitter wants to choose one of the other suggestions, that is entirely up to them. The emblazon I made is not a pile but is a proper per chevron. The steepness is just a matter of taste.


Thus ends the October Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 1 Device. There are a total of 1 items submitted on this letter.

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