SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

Trimaris ILoI dated 2019-05-02

Unto the College of Heralds,

Greetings!

Please review these submissions. I appreciate your feedback.

1: Agustin de Leon -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2017, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) On a grenade sable enflamed gules an escallop argent.

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 12:57:19
No conflicts found.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-22 11:51:46
I find no conflicts either.


2: Aibinn ingen Artain -New Augmentation of Arms

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as A?binn ingen Art?in in March of 2003, via Trimaris.

Fleury argent and azure, on a pale vert a celtic cross argent surmonted by a hurt charged with a fleur-de-lis argent.

Augmentation of Arms Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:09:53
The registered blazon of the base arms is: Argent semy-de-lys azure, on a pale vert a Celtic cross argent.

And the hurt appears to be entirely on the cross, not surmounting it. So I think we should make this augmentation:

Argent semy-de-lys azure, on a pale vert a Celtic cross argent, for augmentation on the cross a hurt charged with a fleur-de-lis argent.

The Trimaris Order of Precedence indicates the submitter was awarded an Augmentation of Arms on September 1, 2018 (https://www.trimaris.org/officers/office-of-the-triskele-herald/order-of-precedence/op-individual/?l inknum=1622).

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-03 10:50:49
SENA A3A3 says, in part, "Because an augmentation adds complexity, augmented devices are often allowed to violate certain style rules, such as allowing charges on tertiary charges or a complexity count of greater than eight, as long as the identifiability of the design is maintained."

This augmentation has a charge on a charge on a tertiary charge (a quinary charge?). Is this allowed?

Technically, the augmentation of Þorfinn Hrolfsson (February of 2018 via Lochac), Gyronny of six argent and azure, a tricorporate lion gules and for augmentation in chief overall on an elephant Or an inescutcheon quarterly azure and argent charged with on a cross gules four mullets of six points argent, hits this same number of layers. But it was registered without comment, so doesn't necessarily set precedent (and it doesn't look like the layers issue was mentioned in commentary either). That's the only SENA-era example I've found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 17:58:59
And Þorfinn is using Lochac's standard augmentation, which produces greater mental simplicity for his arms.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 17:56:22
As OSCAR suggests, the registered name is <Aíbinn ingen Artáin>.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 12:59:01
Since the name is registered as Aíbinn ingen Artáin, dropping the accents will require submitting the change. This sort of change will not be a problem. Have to agree with Iago that the hurt is on the cross rather than surmounting it. Also agree that the blazon should be based on that of the registered arms rather than the one submitted here.

Sasha Gregor'evich Vilanov at 2019-05-15 10:35:13
I do not believe that she wishes to drop the accents. I think it more likely that our Lymphad Herald, who is new to the office, did not put them in when entering the name.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-18 09:52:23
Thank you Sasha you are correct, I erred in not adding the accents. I would adjust that but am not able until it moves to external. (OSCAR 2.0 ability mayhap?)


3: Astryth Hrafnsdottir -New Name & New Device

Gules, a sun Or eclipsed sable, a point pointed Or

No major changes.
Culture (Norse) most important.

Astryth - a Norse female given name found https://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=10678&s=n&str=Astryth

Hrafnsdottir- A Norse patronymic byname Hrafn found pg 11 Geirr Bassi

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:00:04
Given name docs appear to check out. Patronymic looks OK.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:00:14
No conflicts found with this nice clean device.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-22 12:02:38
I also find no conflicts.


4: Crescent of Wyvernwoode -New Name & New Device

Purpure, a crescent Or within a bordure Or mullety purpure

Crescent: Given name allowance documentation provided

Wyvernwoode: SCA branch registerd Barony

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:01:04
Don't see anything in support of the given name. Is it the client's mundane name?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-09 17:26:34
Yes Crescent is the client's mundane given name.

Juetta Copin at 2019-05-13 00:58:24
Crescent is a period name: https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Acrescent~%20%2Bany_ year%3A1500-1650~

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:01:18
No conflicts found.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-22 11:41:10
No conflicts found.


5: Domenico de Carono -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

Per pale azure and vert, a chief triangular Or with a raven migrant sable.

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:29:27
Minor tweak to the blazon:

Per pale azure and vert, on a chief triangular Or a raven migrant sable.

SFPP for non-eagle in a displayed equivalent, but that appears to be the only one.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:01:39
Agree with Iago's blazon tweak. No conflicts found.


6: Domenico de Carono -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

Quarterly gules and sable, two swords in saltire and a maltese cross Or.

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:40:13
We need to specify where the cross is, and we capitalize 'Maltese'. The swords are inverted.

Quarterly gules and sable, two swords inverted in saltire and in chief a Maltese cross Or.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:02:16
Again, Iago's blazon is correct. No conflicts found.


7: Drust Thorisson -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2011, via Caid.

Sable a fess argent, in chief and in base a plate argent and a plate sable on the fess.

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:45:00
There's no such thing as a 'plate sable'; plates are argent by definition. So we could do:

Sable, on a fess between two roundels argent a roundel sable.

Or:

Sable, on a fess argent between two plates a pellet.

Sasha Gregor'evich Vilanov at 2019-05-15 10:38:54
I think the second one is more elegant...

Sable, on a fess argent between two plates a pellet.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:02:33
No conflicts found.


8: Finnguala inghean Alusdair Murex Herald -New Heraldic Title

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.

Murex - a spiny snail found on pg 772 of the Oxford English Dictionary

Submitter was awarded Herald Extraordinaire - 09/02/2017 documentation attached

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2876/2019-04-08/13-28-56_finngualla_murex_scroll.jpeg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2876/2019-04-08/13-28-56_finguala_murex_wording.jpeg

Heraldic Title Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-05-03 22:26:36
if this heraldic title go to laurel, make sure to put the heraldic title in the field for submitted item and not on the same line as filling name.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-09 17:28:48
thank you Seraphina this is my first title submission and was unaware.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:07:00
Among household and order names and heraldic titles, I find no conflicts for the substantive element in <Murex> Herald.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:17:28
For purposes of establishing the word as period:

OED, murex, n.:

1. Any of various predatory gastropod molluscs ... distinguished by spiny shells ...
1589 R. Greene Ciceronis Amor 30 [Will] no colour content your eye but such as is stayned by the fish Murex.
And as submitter's registered arms (among a few dozen others) example, a snail can be a charge.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:23:47
The line in the headmatter "Submitter desires a feminine name" should almost certainly be deleted. http://latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/murex informs me that "murex" is a masculine noun. I doubt submitter wants it altered to make it feminine--assuming that's possible--much less returned because it isn't, but she should be consulted before that deletion.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:03:39
The client's name was registered 12/08 via Trimaris. In the header, there should be a comma between the client's name and the submitted title.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-18 09:54:54
Again as stated elsewhere, new to the office and still learning. Noted and thank you I will adjust it in External.


9: Gisela Darlington -New Name & New Device

Per pale nebuly purpure and argent, a butterfly and a double tressure counterchanged

This name combines a late period German given name and English surname

Gisela : IGI Family serch has Gisela in a 1628 christening record (batch C92584-1)

Darlington IGI family search has Darlington as an English surname in 1611 (batch CO2814-1)

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2019-05-21 15:43:01
Gisela link - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNVF-B5S

Darlington link - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYLH-WMB

Name construction given + surname checks for both English and German. Combining English and German in later period checks. No conflicts noted.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:47:52
Even enlarged I have trouble identifying the butterfly. I think counterchanging a complex charge over nebuly is going to have identifiability issues no matter what.

Haakon Bjornsson at 2019-05-04 09:20:20
I definitely agree the butterfly is unidentifiable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:25:08
Concur. "Butch and bold" collides here with delicate.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:07:36
After reading the blazon, I can make out the butterfly on the line drawing version, but even there don't think I could otherwise see it. Certainly not on the colored version. No conflicts found, but if there would be if the partition line were straight: Cirina Elci, badge reg. 01/17 via Atenveldt: Per pale purpure and argent, a butterfly counterchanged.

Sasha Gregor'evich Vilanov at 2019-05-15 10:44:37
It definitely has identifiability issues. I don't think putting any charge counter-changed on top of nebuly is going to have good results.


10: Grimr Jǫtun-Bjǫrn -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Culture (Norse) most important.

Grimr is a Norse male given name found here: https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/lindorm/runicbynames/occupations.htm#start and here http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Jotun-Bjorn is a Norse surname found here

<Jǫtun->, -Bjǫrn, Landnámabók, Vatnsdæla saga, Flateyjarbók. "Giant"-Bjǫrn; "he was with his mother and was called Jǫtun-". Those who were so named were probably of Såmi (Lapplandic) descent. E.H. Lind Personbinamn col. 182 s.n. <Iotun-Biǫrn>.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:08:15
The sources for the given name spell it Grímr. Don't have Lind.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-25 09:51:59
I will add the diatricle as it moves up

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-05-11 00:44:30
So the submitter has <given name> <pre-pended byname>-<given name>. Given that we don't have a pattern of Norse double given names, does the submitter mean to submit "Jǫtun-Grímr"?


11: Gülruh bint Ibrahim -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Language (ottoman/ turkish) most important.
Culture (ottoman 16th century) most important.
Meaning (rose- cheeked daughter of abraham) most important.

Gülruh is a female name found in Ladies of Istanbul 16th c. Muslim Women's names pg 6 and pg 9.

bint is the proper connective per SENA for "daughter of"

Ibrahim is a male name found in "Sixteenth-Century Turkish Names: Masculine Given Names" by Ursula Whitcher https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ursula/ottoman/

Name Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-05-03 22:29:57
If this goes to laurel, please provide photocopies of the given name source, as it is not on the no photocopy list.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-04 09:11:00
They were missed when I scanned it all and will be added for your perusal this evening/ afternoon.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:27:00
And indeed we ought to peruse them. It is not unknown for a submitter to misunderstand, mistranscribe, or otherwise mangle a source.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-05 09:36:02
The original file is quite lengthy and can be provided upon request I have herein given the relevant and needful pages

1: Image 1

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-05-05 10:54:19
you only need to provide the cover page and pages included the name.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:11:52
Thank you for supplying the given name doc. The patronymic doc checks out.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2019-05-27 19:32:07
Further documentation for the name Gulruh (thus spelled in this book): https://books.google.com/books?id=SIuKDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT109&lpg=PT109&dq=gulruh+bayazid&source=bl&ots=in sAjFmD-N&sig=ACfU3U25KkowrKK_fOTrGSCzDseVZRz4_w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxuvz_8bziAhV8ITQIHXwaDbsQ6AE wC3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=gulruh&f=false

The above book doesn't have page numbers, unfortunately, so it's hard to specify the page mentioning Gulruh as a consort of Bayezid. The lack of an umlaut is just a matter of transliteration/romanization.

The use of bint in a Turkish/Arabic name is not unusual, nor is that mix of languages.

I didn't find any conflict.

Later: Ibrāhīm can also be found as an Arabic name, which means bint Ibrahim is a completely Arabic name phrase. See:
https://s-gabriel.org/names/basil/battuta/Isms.html
and note that Ibn Baṭūṭṭa lived in the 14th century, so the two name phrases date to within 300 years.


12: Kađlín Stertikona -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound (Given name sound) most important.
Meaning (by name to mean well dressed woman) most important.

Kađlín- is a norse female given name found in "The Old Norse Name" by Geirr Bassi on pg 12

Stertikona is a constructed byname inteded to mean "stately woman". Geirr Bassi has Stertimadr "stately well dressed man" on pg 25; madr is a Norse word for man. Geirbassi pg 27 has skaldkona "female skald". If another compound sterti - is more appropriate for this meaning changing is OK.

Name Comments:

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2019-05-03 21:21:26
I haven't been able to find my copy of GB for a few years now, but I can guarantee that what it has is Kaðlín (with an eth), not Kađlín (with a d-with-stroke). Note that I did not bother to look up a keyboard shortcut or anything for eth: I just used Da'ud notation ({ dh }, minus the spaces), which OSCAR handily converts to the correct glyph for me.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:29:04
So

<Kaðlín Stertikona>

This would hardly be the first such mistranscription I've seen on OSCAR.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-04 20:42:00
I went and looked at my copy and you and Michael are correct it is Kaðlín. It will be corrected when I send it up to external.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:12:18
Don't have Geirr Bassi.


13: Katerina Von Klein -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Per pale gules and sable, two butterflies in fess Or

Device Comments:

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-03 15:49:51
I just noticed that images were not attached they will be by Sunday evening if not sooner. mea culpa

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2019-05-03 21:26:03
Bigger problem: you can't have a device without a name, but neither OSCAR nor I can find this name registered. (Unsurprising, as "klein" isn't a placename, so the locative preposition is inappropriate.)

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-04 09:13:59
I have reached out on this issue as the paperwork says "already registered" but I cannot find it myself either.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:41:56
There is a registered <Katrina Klein> (Apr 2012 via the Middle). She could have moved between kingdoms, and this would not be the first case of a client being hazy on exactly what's registered to her. Speaking of which, that gentle has a registered device (Apr 2012), Argent, a wolverine passant guardant sable marked argent and on a chief azure three mullets of eight points argent, which would need to be disposed of (released or made a badge) if submitter IS the same person.

If submitter is NOT the same person: Clear for sound by one syllable from submitter's modified <Katerina Klein> (see Lady Julia's comment above), but not clear for appearance--1 letter is not enough.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-04 20:14:08
Images attached

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-22 11:47:37
Charges on a divided field default to being on opposite sides of the division, so 'in fess' isn't required.

Per pale gules and sable, two butterflies Or.

No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:13:20
This will have to wait until the client's name is submitted.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-05-11 06:27:23
Just in case it turns out the submitter doesn't have a registered name:

DMNES sn. Katherine
Katerina, feminine, Early New High German. Nürnberg, Germany 1497.
http://dmnes.org/cite/Katerina/1497/Nurn1497

and Historisches Ortslexikon Hessen has:
sn. Niederklein
Gleyne (um 1248)
Clein (1267)
Glene (1369)
Clene (1525)
Nidern Gleen (1574)
https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/idrec/sn/ol/id/9196

I think that would be enough for a "Katerina von Clein," (even if I'd be surprised if Clein wasn't recorded in a Latin document somewhere).
We might also be able to justify spelling Clein as Klein with:
sn. Klein-Bieberau
Kleyn Beberau (1492)
Clein Bibra (1545)
(https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/idrec/sn/ol/id/13437)
sn. Klein-Krotzenburg
Kleinen Crotzenborg (1482)
Clein Crotzenberg (1487)
(https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/idrec/sn/ol/id/14123)
sn. Kleinenglis
Clein Englis (1563)
Klenenglis (um 1570)
(https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/idrec/sn/ol/id/4091)
sn. Kleinkerstenhausen
Kleynen Kerstenhusen (1447)
Cleyne Kerstenhußen (1471)
Kleinen Kirstenhusen (1493)

If a pattern seen in 15th century Hessian placenames can justify changing the spelling of a 13th century placename, however, is above my pay grade.


14: Katherine Lochner -New Name & New Device

Sable, a griffin argent, on a chief enarched Or, two crosses calatrava gules.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.

Katherine is a female name [Katherine]: "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia" by Talan Gwynek, documents [Katherine] in this spelling to 1366.

Lochner (submitter is the true daughter of Martin Lochner registered via Trimaris 06/97) Lochner is a surname found here https://search.credoreference.com/content/topic/lochner_stefan_1400_1451 and here http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/history-of-art/northern-renaissance.htm

Documentation of relationship provided

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:13:49
Docs check out.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2019-05-10 01:34:15
Here is the Url for the given name documentation https://heraldry.sca.org/names/bahlow_v.htm

Lochner: is found in "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: A - M" by Sara L. Uckelman https://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/surnamesnurna-m.html. Lochner is a surname with 3 documented instances.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:50:41
We need an 'of' in there and to capitalize 'Calatrava'. We can also delete one of the commas:

Sable, a griffin argent, on a chief enarched Or two crosses of Calatrava gules.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:14:10
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's corrections.


15: Logan the Gardener -New Name & New Device

Argent a sword inverted between two seadragons addorsed sable a bordure gules

No major changes.
Meaning (dubbed "the Gardener" By King Kurn at Pennsic War 2013) most important.

Logan is an English male surname in familysearch.org , Batch C05329-2, "Mary Logan" 1597 used as a given name per Elizabethan practice

the Gardener An English Surname dated to London 1582, as found in the 1582 subsidy roll of London

http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/engsurlondon1582a-m.html

Name Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:52:17
The cited source gives "Gardener", not "the Gardener".

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:14:35
It's very rare to see English occupational names using "the".

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-05-11 06:33:53
R&W sn. Curtler has:
Geoffrey le Cultelier 1186
William le Curtillier 1199
Ralph Curtiler 1296
William, Roger (le) Corteler 1327
"OFr cortiller, courtillier, cultilier `gardener'; or a derivative of ME curtil `kirtle', a maker of kirtles."

sn. Gardener
William le gardinier, le Gardenier 1199, 1201
ONFr *gardinier corresponding to OFr, modFr jardinier `gardener' (a1325 MED). Walter le gardiner (1292 SRLo) was a fruiterer. Gairdner is Scottish.

MED sv. gardener (https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED18199/track?counter=1&search_id =991492) has:
(1169) Wulfiet le Gardiner
(1199) Willelmus le gardinier
(1248) Rob. le Gardenir.
(1262) Lodowicus le Gardener.
(1274) Willielmus le Cardiner
(1298) Walter le Gardiner
(1324) Ad. le Gardouner.

With all that said, Gawain Green Anchor is right that it'd be a surprise to see "the" Gardener used as an occupational byname in 16th century England.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:53:46
Adding a couple punctuation marks:

Argent a sword inverted between two sea-dragons addorsed sable, a bordure gules.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:44:05
Adding the one that got lost:

Argent, a sword inverted between two sea-dragons addorsed sable, a bordure gules

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:15:23
No conflicts found. Gerard's blazon is good.


16: Lorenz Langenecht -New Name & New Device

Sable, in fess a shovel and a hayfork Or

Lorenz-Male german given name found

https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/germmasc/

Langenacht is a surname found as "Hansel Lagenacht" 1387 in Mittlelhoch deutsches namebuch pg 33 by Bahlow

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:16:22
Given name doc checks out. No longer have Bahlow.

Alona Ezquerra at 2019-05-11 08:32:06
Langenacht, Lagenacht, or Langenecht? There seems to be a typo somewhere. I don't have Bahlow either so I can't check the doc.

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2019-05-21 15:54:17
Bahlow does not have <Langenacht> or <Lagenacht> or <Langenecht> as a header. The note that its as Hansel Lagenacht doesn't help as the header for Hansel doesn't have it either.

Please contact the submitter/consulting herald and ask what header name this was found under.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-29 09:27:25
From the consulting herald from Gulf Wars- The name wasn't found in the English translation of Hans Bahlow. It was in the German 3-ring binder version that we had at Heralds Point which is organized differently (by types of bynames) than the Bahlow we usually use (which was AWOL).

From my notes:

1387 "Hansel Langenacht" from Hans Bahlow, Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch: Namen von Wesenart und Lebensweise, p 33



I used the page number, since each section of the book is individually alphabetized which makes hunting for the header form tiresome. The header form in that section must have been Langenacht, or close enough that I knew that looking for "Langenacht" would find it. I don't have access to "the big book" of Bahlow to verify and I'm not finding an ebook.

This is the closest I've found - a search of _Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch : nach schlesischen Quellen_ (which is apparently the full book title) at the Hathi Trust: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?id=uva.x000697869;view=1up;seq=7;q1=langenacht;start=1;sz =10;page=search;orient=0

I observe that this particular book by Bahlow isn't one of the two on the "No-Copy List" which is something we overlooked at the Point.

:-(

At your service,

Mistress Sofya la Rus Habicht Herald, Heraldshill Herald, Nobis HE

I will attempt to locate a printout of this and attach

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:51:50
(Irrelevant to registration: This seems to be be the first use of a shape much like Batonvert's shovel at http://mistholme.com/dictionary/spade-shovel/ in the OSCAR era.)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:16:47
No conflicts found.

Alona Ezquerra at 2019-05-11 08:30:46
Even though mistholme says that the shovel is blade to base by default and the hayfork is tines to chief by default, it still _looks_ like a Unity of Orientation violation to me.


17: Madhavi Dasi -New Name & New Device

Argent, a crequier vert, and on a chief enarched azure, three lotuses argent.

Madhavi Dasi- name of 16th century female Vaishnavite poet in Orissa (Women Pioneers in Oriya

Literature, Dr. Savitri Rout 1971)

Madhavi- main female character in the epic poem Silappatikaram, written in the Tamil language in the

5-6th century CE

Madhavi- name of female character in the Hindu religious epic Mahabharata, written in the Sanskrit

language and compiled in the 4th century CE

Madhavi Devi- queen of Subhakara I of the Buddhist Bhauma-Kara Dynasty- 8th century Orissa

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:57:42
None of submitter's sources seem to appear in http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html#APPENDIXH, so she must submit copies of the title pages and pages with relevant citations of each. I believe digital copies will suffice, won't they?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-05 08:52:25
I will be adding the documentation forthwith

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-05 08:54:02
So added

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-05 09:21:18
I have tried 4 times to replace these files with ones that do not contain the submission form and had no luck. Truly irritated.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:22:54
Thank you for getting the references up.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 21:58:06
We can take out the "and". And we need more detail in the blazon of the lotuses:

Argent, a crequier vert, on a chief enarched azure three lotus blossoms in profile argent.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 18:53:43
Submitter should be advised that her chief can correctly be deeper, improving the identifiability of her lotuses. (Irrelevant to registration: And in my opinion making the device look much better.)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:25:28
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's reblazon and with Gerard's suggestion about deepening the chief and enlarging the lotus blossoms.


18: Melangell merch Mariot -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2004, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) A bee proper, with a heart voided

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-02 22:08:08
From the blazon it sounds like the client wants a bee with a heart-shaped void. But we can't void charges on a fieldless background.

The heart can't be argent either, since it would then have low contrast with the bee.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 19:05:40
The thorax can be sable for a bee proper according to more than one registered device in the OSCAR era, and in nature that segment can be dark brown (e.g., https://americanbeejournal.com/the-members-of-the-colony/) . This would make the body as a whole neutral. If thus recolored, I believe client could submit

(Fieldless) On a bee proper a heart argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:26:28
If the tincture of the heart were changed to a color, it would work. If the client must have a voided one, she'll need to make badge fielded of some color. No conflicts found.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-18 10:39:03
Spoke with client, she requests this be altered to a fielded badge, I will adjust emblazon and post tomorrow new blazon Gules a bee proper with a heart voided

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh at 2019-05-25 10:10:57
line art remains the same

1: Image 1

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-25 10:32:52
Since we haven't blazoned anything as voided of another charge in over 20 years, I think we'd make this:

Gules, on a bee proper a heart gules.


19: Melanya Volodymirova -New Name & New Device

Quarterly ermine and gules, two badgers rampant addorsed regardant proper

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Spelling (Melanya) most important.

Melanya is a female given name found in the English translation of A Dictionary of Period Russian Names - Wickenden pg 207 found as Melania dated to 1356. Melanya is submitters given name.

Volodymirova- feminine patronymic byname derived from Vladimir, Feminine form of Sergi Volodimirova 1635 with first i to Y as seen in Volodymerko Volodarevich 1142 all per Wickenden 3rd Ed. SN Vlodimir will accept Volodimiriova

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:27:04
Melanya and Melania are simply alternate transliterations of the Russian name.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-05-11 06:56:30
Wickenden sn. Melan'ia has:
Melan'ia, martyr. 1356.

If we assume the submitter is using the Revised English System of transliteration, and Wickenden's source originally had "Мелаиья," then it could also be spelled "Melanya."

Fortunately, Wickenden is very regular in his transliteration, because it's highly likely "Volodymerko Volodarevich" spelled his name with a ы to get a y, which also happens using the Revised English System.*
I therefore think an interpolated "Volodymir" would be possible (to then form Volodymirova with), using:
Wickenden sn. Vladimir
Volodymerko Volodarevich. 1142.
Volodimer. 1371-2.
sn. Mstislav
Great Prince Mstislav Volodimir' syn. 1130.
and in the placenames section:
"Volodymyr -- City in the Galicia-Valhynia Principality that was founded prior to 1050."

* As seen on p. 47 of Moroshkin: https://archive.org/details/slavianskimenos00morogoog/page/n160

Juetta Copin at 2019-05-13 01:37:15
Please remove the submitter's email address.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:27:37
No conflicts found.

Iago ab Adam at 2019-05-22 11:57:42
There isn't a defined proper colouration for badgers.

Quarterly ermine and gules, two badgers rampant addorsed regardant sable marked argent.


20: Niculas Odinsson -New Name & New Device

Per chevron azure and sable, in chief a raven displayed sable on a plate between a decrescent and an increscent argent.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.

Niculas is a male given name found here: 1500 niculas (gen) DipIs-7 489; 1504 Nichulas (gen) ibid. 655

http://dmnes.org/name/Nicholas

Odinson is a surname Odinsson: the "Diplomatarium Norvegicum" (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/dipl_norv/diplom_field_eng.html) has an Odin Redulf sson in 1460 (document 240) and Nykolas Odin sson in 1468 (document 355).

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:28:17
Since the reference for the given name lists it as an Icelandic genitive form, we'll need to find the nominative form for this submission. The surname doc checks out.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2019-05-11 07:05:35
Lind col. 790 sn. Nikolás
Niculas, Niculass, Norway, 1285
Nyculas, Norway, 1424
Nicvlas, Iceland, 1488

col. 104 sn. Auðun
Odins, genitive case, Norway, 1458
Odyns, genitive case, Norway, 1490
Making Niculas Odinsson a lovely 15th c. Norwegian name.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 19:10:22
I think we need to say

Per chevron azure and sable, in chief on a plate between a decrescent and an increscent argent a raven displayed sable

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2019-05-04 19:13:08
Submitter (and we commenters) should be made aware of Laurel's recent dictum at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2019/01/19-01lar.html#344, Úlfrikr inn gamli Ragnarsson:

The submitter should be advised that charges only in chief can push a chevron to base; doing so with this design would give the [charges] a greater amount of space to expand and aid in identifiability.
I'm morally certain the same applies to per chevron.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2019-05-09 13:30:15
No conflicts found. A SFPP for the displayed bird that's not an eagle. Agree with Gerard's blazon.


In Service I Remain,

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh

Lymphad


OSCAR counts 12 Names, 1 Heraldic Title, 10 Devices, 5 Badges and 1 Augmentation of Arms. There are a total of 29 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos