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Trimaris ILoI dated 2018-09-30

Unto the Esteemed Heralds of the Known World, Greetungs!

Please review these submissions. I appreciate your hard work and dedication to the Art of Heraldry.

Letter Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:52:11
It appears that your word processor can't handle early letters like æ, á, Ó, and ú. We use these often enough that you really need to find a way to access them. You also need to know that the first word of a blazon is always capitalized, but that the names of tinctures are not otherwise, except for "Or".

1: Aingeal of the Ruins -New Name & New Device

Argent a dog's head couped sable

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (angel) most important.
Spelling (Aingeal) most important.

Aingeal- given name; Aingeal Blair Mac an Ghabhann

This name was registered in September of 1993 (via Ansteorra).

of the Ruins- by name- physical location of residence

Name Comments:

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-01 09:14:51
Records for Aingeal requested from Archivist, will amend as soon as they are received.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-01 18:18:59
Please amend submission (I was the consulting herald) Found via https://s-gabriel.org/names/irish.shtml

https://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/aingeal-angela.php

Aingeal, genitive idem (the same), Angela; Latin - Angela, angel

Mayken van der Alst at 2018-10-01 13:14:58
Locative byname "of the Ruins" Ruins, Shire of the: this branch-name was registered in February of 1983

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 10:54:22
Looks good. No conflict

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-04 12:14:18
The documentation for this name cannot be used under today's SENA. Woulfe's data is only good for the bynames. The name already registered cannot be used as documentation today as the rules have been long updated. The byname is fine, Branch Allowance. The given name will need to be changed.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:22:46
The name already registered can be used under the Existing Registration Allowance, http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN1B2g, and will be treated as neutral in time and place. It can certainly be combined with a branch name, which is equally neutral, so the submission is registerable to submitter without change.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:29:05
Note that the <Ayngell> appearing in comment headings is not eligible for that ERA.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:52:38
Looks OK.

Device Comments:

Sigrith parði (Sigrith Vigdisardaater) at 2018-10-03 06:04:31
Since there's no difference given between a dog, wolf or fox head or for couped vs. erased, I see multiple conflicts for this device.

Vardak Mirceavitch Basarabov of Iloi's "Argent, a fox's head erased sable and in chief three pine cones, stems to chief proper." One DC for the pinecones.

Ulf der Jaeger's "Argent, a wolf's head erased sable and a sinister tierce bendy sable and Or." One DC for the tierce.

Afanasiia Volokhovna's "Argent, a wolf's head erased sable within an annulet azure." One DC for the annulet.

William Blackfox's "Per fess arched argent and azure, a fox's head sable, erased gules, gorged of a collar Or." There seems to be a precedent that collars on canine heads don't count as tertiary charges, so there's just one DC for the field.

Ayngell of the Ruins at 2018-10-04 07:32:23
There is conflict even though this device is strictly only the hound's head with no other ornamentation, whereas the other have ornamentation?

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-04 10:05:15
Yes, as they all only have one Distinct Change (DC), and 2 DCs are required to clear conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-04 23:32:46
I do not believe William Blackfox (May/Nov 1981) is a conflict. The first distinction I've seen stated is that when you've got a whole beast then a collar, a gorging coronet, etc., isn't prominent enough to count for difference, but when it's on a head alone, it may.

See http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2004/06/04-06lar.html s.n. Rolant Richolf von dem Reyne:

Questions were raised in commentary about the tincture of the dog's collar. If the collar were of a contrasting tincture ... that would yield a second CD for adding a tertiary charge.
That ruling was cited with approval at https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/12/17-12lar.html#210, Katherine Kerr of the Hermitage.

William's collar Or contrasts with the head sable-and-gules. Which doesn't dispose of the others, of course.

Sigrith parði (Sigrith Vigdisardaater) at 2018-10-05 05:20:00
Interesting. It looks like the 2010 precedent has not been explicitly overturned, but also hasn't been followed (at least consistently).

http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/02/10-02lar.html Gabriella Marguerite Simonetti Rucellai. Badge. (Fieldless) A horse's head erased argent collared gules.

This month, we are partially overturning a precedent elsewhere and declaring that collars on canines are artistic detailing, not worth difference. Research into the use of collars on horses revealed no collared horse heads. Therefore, collars on horse heads will still be considered tertiary charges as long as they have good contrast with the charge on which they are placed.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:27:33
Huh! I didn't find that one with a search. And our Sovereigns do indeed seem to be unaware of having contradicted themselves without explicitly overturning precedent on this point.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-13 11:09:03
Rand and Garanhir aren't conflicts: theres a 2nd DC for tincture of the primary charge in both.

Sigrith parði (Sigrith Vigdisardaater) at 2018-10-14 21:45:51
You're quite right, not sure how I got those mixed in. I'll edit.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-13 09:43:07
Please correct me if I am wrong but from what I am reading there is only 1 DC for the field change and require another to register the device. A bordure would supply that second DC and still keep the simplicity the client requested. Is this correct?

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-13 11:25:31
It would supply the required 2nd DC, but could introduce new conflicts. I don't see any (assuming a plain sable bordure), but I only did a quick check.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:42:36
He means "might introduce".

What say you who can do good complex searches?


2: Bjolan Styrkson -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

Bjolan- given name; s.n. Beollan; O'Carra'in & Maguire, p 31

Styrk- surname; http://dokprouio

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2623/2018-09-30/19-46-22_Bjolan-name-doc.jpg

Name Comments:

Ayngell of the Ruins at 2018-10-02 08:30:26
My mistake, it just says submissions. Not two.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 10:56:59
I get an invalid link when I click, and the posted doc is in Norwegian

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-02 16:02:39
From the posted image, it looks like <Styrk> is a given name, and this submission turns it into a patronymic byname using known construction.

<Bjolan> is attested in the Landnamabok https://books.google.com/books?id=jj6cIwMCZqIC&q=bjolan#v=snippet&q=bjolan&f=false, but it is as the name of a king, and only once.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-10-02 20:40:51
The attached document is a screenshot from Diplomatarium Norvegicum of a 1514 charter. Lind Dopnamn cols. 969-971 has <Styrkárr>, which is may be the name from which the D.N. reference derives. The nominative in D.N. seems to by <Styrk>, which means the genitive is <Styrks>, then we add <-son> to get a patronymic of <Styrksson>.

Lind Dopnamn col. 139 has <Biólan>, an Icelandic settler from Ireland, and Landnámabók also mentions a king in Scotland named <Biolan>. The gap here is from the 800s to 1514, which is more than 500 years.

We can get a completely Viking Age name using <Styrkárr>, which is found in Iceland from the time of the Settlement. If we went this way, we would have a temporally consistent <Bjólan Styrkársson>.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-08 00:23:01
Agree with Gunnvor, and her possible solution.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:54:27
Pantheon and Orle seem to have provided the missing documentation.


3: Cadhla O'Faolain -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(Fieldless) A monkey rampant collared and chained argent maintaining in dexter paw a quill and in sinister paw an abacus purpure

I am not sure if the monkey would be considered rampant since he is leaning forward.

Badge Comments:

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-01 09:17:27
Name found as Cadhla Ó Faoláin This name was registered in September of 1994 (via the East).

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 21:49:17
That's a pen, not a quill. And we don't need to specify handedness, we can just blazon the maintained charges from chief to base:

(Fieldless) A monkey rampant collared and chained argent maintaining a pen and an abacus purpure.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-10-04 16:24:48
I am too pressed for time to do really extensive research, but as far as I can find out, this style of abacus is unique to China. It seems to date back to period, but I can't find out if it was known to pre-17th century Europe. I think, therefore, there's a chance this isn't regitrable. I hope someone with more time, or better resources, can find out more.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 00:32:29
The OED seems to confirm Lions Heart's doubts. Its definition 1b,

Any of various devices on which calculation or counting is performed manually: esp. a frame with rows of wires or grooves along which beads are slid to perform calculations; (also) a table on which quantities are reckoned by means of counters, which are either loose or fixed to lines (now rare)
has its first citation from 1686, which is perhaps worth quoting in full since it refers to the thing as being in ancient use, whatever English name might be applied to it:
1686 Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 16 66 The Figure and use of their Abacus or counting Board..which I find pretty near to agree with that of the Antient Romans..save only that, instead of pinns and sliding Groves of the Romane, the Chinese Abacus hath Strings or Wires and Beads, to slide upon them; and that, instead of four pinns for Digits or Unites, the Chinese hath 5 beades.
This is accompanied by a note making essentially the same point:
The ancient abacus usually contained grooves with beads sliding in them. The type with wires or rods with beads mounted on them appears to have spread from China and is widely used commercially in India, Africa, and the Far East (formerly also in the Soviet Union) ...
However, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus#Renaissance_abacuses_gallery shows abacus boards that while not matching submitter's depiction could, given heraldry's utter indifference to scale between charges, be lifted off and heraldically maintained. With the pile of beads at the user's right hand omitted from the first image below, 1508, or the cup and knife in the second image from 1525 dropped, a simple, recognizable charge could be drawn--rectangular, of course, not in perspective.

Roman abacuses that more closely resemble the Chinese in layout are alleged at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus#Roman to be known from archeology, and wires are there mentioned for a medieval device, but the illustration there and the device at https://youtu.be/yfWoR3IJh2A are explicitly reconstructions. The illustration of an allegedly medieval item at https://www.storyofmathematics.com/medieval.html also looks inauthentic to me.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-13 09:18:48
Looking at Mistholme, http://mistholme.com/?s=abacus the image there is very similar to what was used in this drawing except reinforced corners and was registered in three different devices. The page has a date of 2013.

Also on mistholme, http://mistholme.com/dictionary/pen/ the pen should be listed as a quill pen to differentiate it from the reed pen.

(Fieldless) A monkey rampant collared and chained argent maintaining a quill pen and an abacus purpure.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:44:41
I don't get that conclusion from Mistholme's discussion. But there is certainly nothing wrong in being more explicit.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:55:20
Glad to see that the name is indeed registered. The item in its right paw is a (quill) pen. A quill is a feather with all the vanes stripped off which was used as a spool for thread. Rampant creatures have their bodies more often bendwise than palewise, so the monkey is in a classic rampant posture. No conflicts found.


4: Caitlin inghean Ioseph -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.

Caitlin-given; O'Corrain & Maguire p 45

Ioseph- surname; O'Corrain & Maguire p 117

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-02 16:14:27
<Ioseph> is found in Index of Names in Irish Annals: Ioseph by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Ioseph.shtml

<Caitlin> is not a period spelling, however we can get <Caitilin> https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Caitilin.shtml

The submitter should be made aware that her chosen given name is not documentable, but a variation is.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 00:34:29
So we propose

<Caitilin inghean Ioseph>


5: Caitriona Meehan -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 1994, via the East.

Upon a toroise cert, an escallop inverted or

Badge Comments:

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-01 09:19:57
correction for spelling errors... Upon a toroise cert, an escallop inverted or Should read: Upon a tortoise vert, an escallop inverted Or.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 21:51:28
Let's try:

(Fieldless) On a tortoise vert an escallop inverted Or.

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 21:59:35
I found no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:55:59
Agree with Iago's blazon. No conflicts found.


6: Ciaran O Muireagain -New Badge

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Ciar?n ? Muireag?in in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) a mermaid argent

Badge Comments:

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2018-10-20 17:09:41
Blazon-fu: we always capitalize the first word after "(Fieldless)". So this is (Fieldless) A mermaid argent. Given the presence of a comb and mirror, you could even blazon it as a mermaid in her vanity.

Unfortunately, this lovely design has a conflict: Rollo Melles, device registered July 2016 (via Middle): Gules, a melusine argent. There is a DC for fieldlessness, but alas no DC between a melusine and a mermaid.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:47:43
In case precedent is desired, we have http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1996/01/lar.html s.n. Morgana of Raglan, with a justification: "we grant no difference between regional depictions of the same charge. (Melusines are the Continental mermaid; the mermaid is the British version.)"

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 08:57:11
The registered name is Ciarán Ó Muireagáin.

Calpurnia Fortunata at 2018-10-24 14:57:53
Rollo Melles is giving us permission to conflict; I'll post the letter from her as soon as she gets it back to us.


7: Ciaran O Muireagain -New Badge

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Ciar?n ? Muireag?in in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

Purpure on a lozenge gules fimbriated a key argent

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 21:55:34
Adding a comma: Purpure, on a lozenge gules fimbriated a key argent.


8: Dagmaer Nilsdottir -New Badge

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Dagm?r Nilsdottir in June of 2017, via Trimaris.

Scissors points closed Or with handles entwined by a square knot proper

Badge Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:27:21
Do knots have a defined "proper"?

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 21:59:48
No.

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 22:12:22
Knots do not have a "proper" tincture. I did not find a precedent for "rope proper" being brown. As drawn, I would not call the knot depicted in the blazon as being made of rope. Rope is depicted as having braided twists in it.

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-13 10:06:47
The client wants a knot to display her love of fiber arts. The knots on Mistholme are typically cord and do not show the twists typical of rope. I have reached out to the client to see about which color she would prefer for the knot.

http://mistholme.com/?s=square+knot

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 13:49:15
Huh! Try

(Fieldless) In pale a square knot of brown rope proper sustaining a pair of closed scissors points to base Or

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 22:16:52
The proposed blazon works, but it does need a redraw for two reasons. The knot would need a redraw to make it more clearly rope. Also, as correctly pointed out, the scissors are modern. The Pictorial Dictionary https://mistholme.com/?s=scissors shows period scissors.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 13:53:45
The emblazon below, for Freydis Karlsdottir from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=4297, was returned because "the scissors appear to be modern scissors and are not registerable without documentation that this form of scissors is found within our period of study."

The scissors submitted here are also a standard modern form,

1: Image 1

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-14 13:44:17
Are these scissors better?

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:49:48
To my mind, certainly.

Now about that rope ... is Azure Dragon right that the emblazon isn't clearly enough so? Because I'd be happy now with calling this "brown rope proper" as I did above.

What say you all?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:01:07
No conflicts found.


9: Dagny Karlsdottir -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Purpure a pile argent overall a bat displayed proper

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:29:14
I don't believe we have a default for bats. If we did, it'd probably be brown.

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-10-02 20:13:17
Overall charges must have good contrast with hte field, which this does not.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 13:57:17
Our bats are displayed guardant by default (http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html#default). They indeed do not appear on our "proper" table (http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html#proper). So blazon for the presumed return:

Purpure, a pile argent, overall a bat sable

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:02:22
Agree with Gerard's blazon, save that we should mention that the pile is throughout. Sable on purpure is a very low-contrast combination and will probably not be registerable here.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-23 09:21:28
I'd go as far as "cannot be registered without an IAP". As Orle says above, overall charges must have good contrast with the field, so this is textbook colour-on-colour.


10: Danielle of Darkwater -New Name Change

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Daniel of Darkwater(11/2012)

OSCAR NOTE: the old name was registered in June of 2017, via Trimaris as Dagm?r Nilsdottir.

Old Item: Dagmaer Nilsdottir, to be retained as an alternate name.
Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.

Danielle- given name- ; This item was on the 12-2015 LoAR-

of Darkwater- by name ; Client is from Darkwater and wishes to use the by-name "of Darkwater"

Name Comments:

Mayken van der Alst at 2018-10-01 13:25:48
Name pattern follows the pattern of Given Name + locative byname

Danielle: Danielle is found as a masculine English and French Huguenot name (from London) in FamilySeach:

Danielle Doutfier, male, christening 10 Feb 1587, HOLBEACH,LINCOLN,ENGLAND batch: C01113-3 Danielle James, male, christening 14 May 1551, FECKENHAM,WORCESTER,ENGLAND batch: P01245-1 Danielle Chambau, male, christening 12 Apr 1601, THREADNEEDLE STREET FRENCH HUGUENOT,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND batch: C04903-1

Also Swiss: Danielle, female, christening 23 Jul 1616, father: Francois Dutruict, EGLISE REFORMEE, ROLLE, VAUD, SWITZERLAND, batch: C91492-1



of Darkwater: Darkwater, or (Barony) branch-name was registered in December of 1985

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 11:32:58
No conflicts found

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-04 12:16:40
There isn't enough difference between Daniel of Darkwater and Danielle of Darkwater. This is a conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:01:49
Daniel's name was registered (as OSCAR says) Nov 2012 and his device May 2013. http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3E permits registration of this name if he gives permission.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:03:33
This should have been posted under the client's registered name. Agree that this is in conflict with Daniel of Darkwater.


11: Eleanor de la Tresse -New Name & New Device

Per bend vert and gules a bend of frets or between a cross Toulouse argent and an open book proper

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (to reflect Eleanor of the hair) most important.

Eleanor: appears as a feminine given name in Withycombe under s.n. Eleanor(a), Elinor.

Tresse - Dictionnaire Etymologique des noms de famille st prenoms de France- pg 577

Name Comments:

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 11:40:50
I see no conflict with name

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:08:20
I believe the blazon needs a little adjustment:

Per bend vert and gules, a bend of frets Or between a cross of Toulouse and an open book argent bound proper

See http://mistholme.com/dictionary/book/ for the binding.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:16:21
We have previously registered three bend of chains and one bend of interlaced annulets, to which this is similar but distinct. This would be our only bend of frets. Whether it must be documented or will be accepted as constructed from known components is probably Wreath's call.

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 22:22:18
I am not sure I would be able to reliably identify the bend as being made of frets. I honestly do not know what else to call it....seven delfs voided conjoined in bend?

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-12 22:34:27
Two bendlets dancetty braced?

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-13 01:00:56
A fret consists of a bend and a bend sinister, interlaced with a mascle. These are not conjoined frets.

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-13 09:31:05
From everything I have seen when a pattern is used on a bend or bend sinister the pattern is rotated the same angle as the bend/bend sinister which would turn the bend within the bend to vertical and the bend sinister within the bend to horizontal. IMHO

This bend of frets was assembled to simulate a braid of hair which is what the client wanted originally.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-13 14:29:23
See, that's not what this is though. Here's what multiple frets look like together (as registered to Natasia the Mendicant in 2010). The fret is more than just the bend and the bend sinister. You're missing the mascle that they interlace with.

1: Image 1

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-14 13:49:08
We based the construction on the fretty device from tracable pngs.

1: Image 1

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-14 19:20:30
I understand entirely. Unfortunately, a fretty field is not drawn the same as fret itself. You could possibly do a fretty bend, but those wouldn't be couped.
The submitter might be interested in this.... http://mistholme.com/dictionary/tress-hair/ A tress of hair is a period charge.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2018-10-20 17:16:55
If the submitter wanted something like a braid of hair, why not a tress? http://mistholme.com/?s=tress

It might be a bit too busy to have it straight down the middle of the field like that, but is a solid option for a redesign as needed.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:53:21
We keep--appropriately--blazoning a looped tress of hair for what we've registered. Which implies that

Per bend vert and gules, in bend a tress of hair Or between a cross of Toulouse and an open book argent bound proper


would work for an emblazon of what the client actually wants.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:04:40
I count a complexity of 7, though it looks like more. Agree that she might like to replace the shaky primary charge with a documentable tress of hair. It appears that the charge has never been registered before in the Society.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-23 09:23:55
It's been registered twice.


12: Elizabeth de Carlisle -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Elizabeth- given name; Withycombe pgs 99-100

De Carlisle- by name taken from Carlisle, Cambria England. Castle ereected 1093 CE

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-02 16:22:25
<Carlisle> appears in Eckwall, s.n. Carlisle with dated spellings of Cærleiol (1130) and Cardeol (1092). Lingua Anglica gets you Carlisle, and the marking <de> is expected.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:05:13
Pantheon has nicely completed the necessary documentation.


13: Etain Echluath -New Device Change

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as ?ta?n Echluath in March of 2012, via Trimaris.

Azure a horse courant within a bordure wavy argent.

Old Item: Azure, a horse passant between flaunches argent., to be released.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:33:32
(OSCAR is trying to say the name is registered as Étaín Echluath.)

And so long as I'm posting: Blazon needs a comma:

Azure, a horse courant within a bordure wavy argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:05:49
No conflicts found. Nicely drawn wavy bordure!


14: Gudhrun Junisdottir -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Guthrum hinn Snj?k?ttr(8/1992)

Perbend sinister vert and gules a raven proper upon a skull argent

Language (Swedish) most important.
Meaning most important.

Gudhrun- given name; SMP online edition via s.gabriel.org/names/scandinavian

Junisdottir- surname; period Russian name H.J.; Heraldry sca.org

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 13:22:06
Please cite your sources better.

<Gudrun> is a feminine given name found in Swedish Feminine Given Names from SMP, by Aryanhwy merch Catmael http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/swedish/smp/gudhrun.html Gudrun is found in that spelling in 1391 and 1400.

<Junisdottir> seems to be a constructed patronymic byname, based on Norse constructed patronymics. There is no <Junis> listed in the Russian database in the SCA Heraldic Names articles section, nor any name close to that spelling. We have <Iona> as a Russian feminine name in 1356, but that cannot be made into a patronymic.

If the submitter wants this as a byname, there will need to be better documentation given.

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-01 19:32:10
Client agrees to change in spelling : Iuniisdottir

Per http://heraldry.sca.org/names/paul/h-j.html Iuniia (f) -- Russianization of June. Iuniia, saint. 13-14th Centuries. [Lev 43]

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 11:44:48
Looks good now with the change.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-08 00:46:36
As the submitter says Swedish language is most important, the online SMP database sn. Iunne and sn. Iuna don't have full entries, but says they are masculine names found in Finland.

SMP volume 17 has: (https://www.sprakochfolkminnen.se/download/18.65af9200160259a08e7586c2/1529494255034/Sveriges%20mede ltida%20personnamn_h17.pdf)
sn. Iunne, col 188
Jwnne aff Vrdhiala, 1390
Junni Iunasson, 1445

That would get the client "Junasdottir," I believe?

The problem with the documentation, as it stands, is that you cannot mix languages within a single language group, so a patronymic that is <Russian genitive case><Swedish -dottir> doesn't seem to work. But a Finnish name would be possible.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-08 00:51:33
Does the submitter want Gudhrun (in the header) or Gudrun (in the documentation summary)?

Neave inghean ui Fhathaigh (Niamh inghean ui Fhathaigh) at 2018-10-13 10:07:31
Client has stated that the meaning is more important than the country, Guhdrun (in any variant) and June's daughter are the most critical. Given what has been provided I believe Gudrun Junasdottir to be acceptable as well

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-14 04:09:14
In that case, and assuming the submitter wants Gudhrun, I'd recommend citing this:
SMP sn. Gudhrun
(http://arkiv.sprakochfolkminnen.se/marshal-oais/view/isof/namn/nau/smp/smp-sok/Nordiskt/Variationsna mn/Kvinnonamn/Gudhrun/Gudhrun.pdf)
Gwdhrun Gwdmunda dottor, 1357
Gudhrvna a Sletnom, genitive case, circa 1400
Gudhrwn j Vpbasom, 1419
Gwdhrwn Haquona dotter, 1476 I'd argue a plausible interpolated form could be Gudhrun, given the apparent interchangeability of w and u.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:06:22
Nothing to add to what other commenters have posted.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-10-02 20:14:19
The sable bird has poor contrast with the all-color field.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:38:40
True; I think someone is overgeneralizing the concept of neutral tincture, or has the idea that a charge proper always counts as contrasting.

Anyway, we don't use "proper" when there's an obvious tincture. So proposed blazon for the presumed return:

Per bend sinister vert and gules, a raven sable perched atop a skull argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:06:47
Agree that this may bounce with the colored raven on a colored field.


15: Gwenhevare Holleran -New Device Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2000, via Atenveldt.

Gules, two sparrows volant respectant, wings displayed, within a joscelyn with three bells argent

Old Item: Vert, a unicorn rampant between in cross four dumbeks Or, to be retained as a badge.

The submitter put in a new name on a previous letter. If it passes, the new name to associate this with would be Miura Suzume.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:07:15
I'd consider the joscelyn to be primary, so "Gules, within a joscelyn with three bells, two sparrows volant respectant wings displayed argent." No conflicts found.


16: Inukami Ieyasu -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in June of 2014, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) On a keystone sable a crampon Or

Jointly owned with Nickel Hartman

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:07:36
No conflicts found.


17: Magnhildr Vintrdottir -New Name & New Device

Per paleargent and gules a calamari sable and a skull argent.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Meaning most important.

Magnhildr -given name; <Magnhildr> - feminine name from Viking Answer Lady - http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#m from NR sv Magnhildr. VAL states "Found in Old Danish as Magnhild and in OW.Norse as Magnhildr. These names appear to come from Germany. Found in the runic genitive form [ma(h)niltar]."

Vintrdottir- surname; Intro to Old Norse, p 395

Vintr - is found in Lena Peterson, Dictionary of Names from Old Norse Runic Inscriptions, and Viking Answer Lady (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml#v) under entry Vintr

Patronymic follows rules in Geirr Bassi

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2623/2018-10-01/19-15-53_Mags-name0001.jpg

Name Comments:

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 11:45:56
Looks good.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-14 04:19:03
Lind col. 1113 sn. Vintr refers to col. sn. 1087 Vetr
Lind seems to say that the genitive case would be Vintrar, based on Vetr becoming Vetrar (see also Zoega http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2003.02.0002:entry=vetr). Hence Vintrardottir

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:08:15
The reference for the surname in the Viking Answer Lady is under the header of Vetr.

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:30:25
This appears marshaled.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:39:48
And so, I think, must be returned.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:08:40
No conflicts, but agree that it appears to be impaled arms.


18: Magnhildr Vintrdottir -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(fieldless) a calamari sable

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:04:46
Conflict with: Athanasius Lacedaemonius The following device associated with this name was registered in August of 2017 (via Meridies): Argent, a calamarie sable.

1 DC for fieldless.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:09:21
Our standard spelling is "calamarie": "(Fieldless) A calamarie sable".


19: Nickel Hartman -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2015, via Trimaris.

(Fieldless) a rose azure

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:08:13
Conflict with: Alyanora of Vinca Either the name or the following device associated it (or both) were registered in February of 1975 (via the West): Argent, a periwinkle [Vinca minor] proper.

1 DC for fieldless.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:47:42
Morsulus has coded Alyanora's device as both ROSE:1:azure:heraldic:spa and ROSE:1:heraldic:purpure:spa. Does that mean it conflicts with both, or with neither?

I think we need to get the emblazon from our excellent archivist@heraldry.sca.org, and am so requesting.

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2018-10-06 15:23:23
With both. You can search "Alyanora of Vinca" in the first search box on morsulus.org and find lots of precedents mentioning it. Most boil down to this:

[Argent, a rose azure barbed within a wreath of thorns vert] Conflict with Alyanora of Vinca, Argent, a periwinkle [Vinca minor] proper. There is one CD for adding the wreath of thorns. Per the May 2000 LoAR, "Periwinkles are bluish purple and by current precedent (see the September 1996 LoAR, pg. 17 ...) they are not significantly different from either blue or purple roses." [Cassandra Attewoode, November 2003, R-Atenveldt]

Shauna of Carrick Point (Northclyf) at 2018-10-06 15:28:21
I have sent you the image as requested, but wanted to also mention that I think in the past that ALyandra's device has had a specific ruling on it being both tinctures. I will investigate on my end and comment further if I find anything.

Shauna of Carrick Point (Northclyf) at 2018-10-06 15:28:49
And in Francois I precedents we find this: A cinquefoil pierced purpure] Conflict with Alyanora of Vinca, Argent, a periwinkle proper. Periwinkles are effectively cinquefoils and given no type difference from cinquefoils. There is no tincture difference: per the September 1996 LoAR, "The tincture of the periwinkle is somewhere between blue [and] purple, and therefore both azure and purpure flowers could potentially conflict with it." [Tatiana Pavlovna Sokolova, 04/2003, R-Outlands]

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-06 21:13:41
So long as I've got the file, and the Baroness hasn't added it here, here 'tis.

1: Image 1


20: Otarr Bjornsson -New Name & New Device

Gules an otter rampent argent maintaining an escallop Or

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Ottarr-given name; Harldsson p14

Bjorn- surname; Harldsson p 8

sson - surname; Harldsson p 17

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 13:24:24
Please cite your sources better.

<Ottarr> is a male given Norse name found in Geir Bassi (GB), p 14.

<Bjorn> is a male given Norse name found in Geir Bassi (GB), p 8. According to patronymic byname formation, p 17-18, the byname should be <Bjornsson>.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-10-08 01:03:30
In the genitive case, Old Norse Bjǫrn becomes Bjarnar, hence Bjarnarson.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:11:27
Once again, Pantheon and ffride have come to the rescue with proper documentation.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:50:26
Fixing the tiny typos and flipping the shell as shown (http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html#default):

Gules, an otter rampant argent maintaining an escallop inverted Or

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:51:49
Like our period predecessors, we allow a wide variety of realizations of rampant. However, I'm not sure this one comes within that spread.

What say you all?

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 22:26:49
I agree that the posture does not clearly convey rampant, but some sort of combination of rampant, salient and perhaps erect. However, for the purposes of conflict checking, I don't believe that it would matter. The point is well taken however, we cannot identify the charge as being rampant as emblazoned.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:11:55
Agree that the hind legs are so short as to make a rampant posture unidentifiable.


21: Quentin the Iron Gryphon -New Name & New Device

Gyronny of 8 arrondi argent and gules a gryphon rampant sable

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Quebntin- given name- Withycombe p 248

"the Iron"- nickname- https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/bynames/

Gryphon - Surname- Family search, James Gryphon marriage cert- Batch MO6149-1

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:06:14
The St. Gabriel document for the descriptive byname doesn't really give "the Iron" as a documented name with dating.

However, Family Search returns <Iron> as a byname under John <Iron>, buried 26 Aug 1580, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England. Batch # B00190-7 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J853-JPX

The second byname, <Gryphon> should be cited thus: James <Gryphon>, married in the grey period 4 Mar 1643, Thorley, Hampshire, England. Batch # M06149-1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2RV-H4N

Quentin is indeed in Withycombe in that spelling, under St. Quentin, martryed 287. That dating is too early to go with the other names in this submission, but if the submitter will accept the spelling Quintin, that is documented to 1581/2 in the DNMES http://dmnes.org/cite/Quintin/1581s2/RWC

The whole name - Quintin Iron Gryphon, shows no conflicts.

Isabel Margarita de Sotomayor y Perez de Gerena at 2018-10-02 11:49:43
thank you Pantheon for the details. Looks good now.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:12:34
Docs check out, though I'm not sure that documenting "the Iron" and "Gryphon" justifies registration of "the Iron Gryphon".

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:31:05
The line art version shouldn't be in gray scale.

Sibeal inghean Mhurchadha at 2018-10-03 18:45:30
Thank you, We will fix it.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-04 01:42:37
The shield shape also looks elongated.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 14:25:07
Which is cause for return.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:14:25
Conflict with: Alfonso de Castile The following device associated with this name was registered in January of 1973: Or, a griffin segreant sable.

1 DC for field.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 15:58:07
Gyronny defaults to eight pieces and our gryphons default to segreant (despite Alfonso's blazon). Proposed blazon for the presumed return:

Gyronny arrondi argent and gules, a gryphon sable

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:13:46
Rampant monsters with wings raised are blazoned as segreant, even when as in this case, they only seem to have one wing. Agree with the conflict call vs. Alfonso de Castile.


22: Richardus Pfeiffer von Karlstadt -New Name Change

OSCAR NOTE: the old name was registered in October of 1983, via Atlantia.

Old Item: Geoffrey MacHugh of Mull, to be retained as an alternate name.

Richardus- given name

Family Search dB- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH1N-5YM

also- Family Search dB- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NZQ9-PMZ

Pfeiffer-surename

Family Search dB- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NC87-9MK

von Karlstadt- locative byname

City of Karlstadt- first documented as such in 1225.

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:22:08
Please cite Family Search thus:

<Richardus> is a male German given name found in the Family Search records under <Richardus> Beckermeyster, christened 13 Aug 1574, Sankt Laurentius, Trier, Rheinland, Preussen, Germany. Batch # C96388-1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NZQ9-PMZ

<Pfeiffer> is a German byname found in the Family Search records under Mathes <Pfeiffer>, christened 2 June 1594, Gronau Odenwald, Starkenburg, Hesse-Darmstadt. Batch # C92646-1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NC87-9MK

Karlstadt can be used as a locative based on the historical figure Andreas Bodenstein <von Karlstadt>, 1486-1541. http://www.hab.de/en/home/research/projects/complete-critical-edition-of-the-works-and-letters-of-an dreas-bodenstein-von-karlstadt.html

Sibeal inghean Mhurchadha at 2018-10-03 18:46:14
Thank you!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:14:25
This should be posted under the registered name.


23: Siobhan Grenelefe -New Name & New Device

Perpall argent , Or and vert a crow displayed in chief and a linden tree in base sable

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.

Siobhan-given name; 1310-1600 Index of Names in Irish Annals; Mari Elspethnie Bryan

Grenelefe-surname; Oxford dictionary of English Surnames p 205

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:29:13
Please cite your sources correctly:

<Siobhan> is an Irish Gaelic feminine given name found in the Index of Names in Irish Annals: Siobhán, by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Siban.shtml

<Grenelefe> is an English byname found in Reaney & Wilson, s.n. Greenleaf, Thomas <Grenelefe> 1441.

Per SENA Appendix C Irish Gaelic and English can be combined in later period.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:14:47
Pantheon has supplied the missing documentation.

Device Comments:

Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2018-10-02 20:15:40
Pretty sure this is copyrighted art on the tree.

Juetta Copin at 2018-10-05 03:12:09
Does it matter?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 16:21:44
Even if so, no one's likely to sue, though it's possible. In any case, using copyrighted work without payment or permission is both discourteous and dishonest.

However, the drawing that keeps being pinned by Pinterest users and that shows up on https://gkno.me/tree-of-life-coloring-pages/ among a "Variety of tree of life coloring pages you are able to download free of charge" is shown below (permissible under fair use, I think, whatever its status). While similar enough to the submission that Google thinks it's identical, it differs in all details--and, in my perhaps Philistine opinion, in style. So we may well have original work in the emblazon.

Whether it's suitable for heraldic use is a different question.

1: Image 1

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-05 18:17:05
Yes, it matters. In the Administrative Handbook, section III.B.4 "Copyrighted Images, Trademarks, and Other Legally Protected Insignia - Such items may be protected when covered by applicable laws and regulations in the country from which the material derives. These items will not be listed in the Society Armorial and Ordinary but are still protected."


I believe there's a bigger issue though. The way the tree's branches entwine with the runes in a knotwork-like fashion isn't really blazonable or reproducible. In addition, I only see one leaf that looks like a linden leaf.

Eldred AElfwald (Azure Dragon) at 2018-10-11 22:30:32
Agreed. This emblazon runs afoul of both issues. I cannot identify the charge as a tree of any sort. Although pleasing from a scribal and artistic standpoint, it must be clearly identifiable as a linden tree if that is what the submitter wants to register.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-03 04:57:35
The crow has no legs which makes it more migrant than displayed.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:16:05
This field is argent, vert and Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 16:25:12
So responding also to Sea Stag, perhaps we want:

Per pall argent, vert, and Or, in pale a crow migrant to chief head to dexter and a linden tree erased sable

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-14 14:07:36
The tree is supposed to be the Celtic tree of life. It is a digital trace of a picture of a cut metal version. I have reached out to the website that the picture came from to see if there is any issue with that type of use.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-14 19:12:40
Honestly, I don't think you'd have to worry much about the copyright issue. The knotwork and identifiability is far more of an issue.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 17:57:37
And after you meet those conditions, I suspect it will no longer be all that similar to the cut-metal original.

Cadhla Ó Faoláin (Cadhla O'Faolain) at 2018-10-23 17:34:05
We have received permission to utilize the digital trace of the picture of the metal cut out.

1: Image 1

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-23 18:40:00
Wonderful due diligence, but the other issues are much more pertinent to registration.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:15:24
Others have posted all the concerns I have about this. Agree with Gerard's blazon, save that this is not identifiable as a linden tree. No conflicts found.


24: Slaine Denny -New Name & New Device

Slaine Denny

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Irish) most important.

Slaine- given name; Irish Names, O'Corrain & Maguire p 166

Denny- Surname; The Surnames of Ireland, McLysaght p 79

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2623/2018-10-01/05-24-41_Slaine0003.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2623/2018-10-01/05-24-41_Slaine0004.jpg

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:42:57
Better documentation, easier to access:

<Slaine> is an Irish Gaelic feminine given name found in Index of Names in Irish Annals: Sláine by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Slaine.shtml

<Denny> is an English byname, found in The Surnames of Ireland, McLysaght, p 79 - see attached documentation. It is also found in R&W, s.n. Denney/Denny/Dinnie/Dinny. John <Denny>, 1379.

Per SENA, Appendix C, Irish Gaelic and English names can be combined.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:15:50
Pantheon has completed the documentation.

Device Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-10-01 16:20:58
Please contract Istvan and have the form removed from the Oscar mini. The form has personal information and should not be available to general public.

Tanczos Istvan (Non Scripta) at 2018-10-02 21:10:59
done

Sibeal inghean Mhurchadha at 2018-10-03 18:48:42
Sorry about that. Thank you for fixing it.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:18:09
Argent, a polypus sable, a bordure purpure semy of decrescents Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 21:25:54
Concur with blazon.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 21:25:14
https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/09/15-09lar.html#166, Miakushka Loshkina, "This device is returned for redraw for having some [of] the polypus' tentacles extending above its head. Please see the May 2015 Cover Letter for information about a correct depiction."

That letter, under "From Wreath: Of Polypus' and Calamarie's Tentacles", https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/05/15-05cl.html#1, explained

the tentacles should be arranged ... around the section of the cephalopod that is opposite the head, with less than half going over the midsection and none going further than the head itself.
Depending how you draw the tangent line, one or the other of this octopus's upper arms extends beyond its head, or both extend just barely. Depending on how you interpret "midsection", that clause may also be a problem.

We can hope that our Sovereigns don't decide these questions at low-points of their days, or that only an artist's note--if even that!--will be incurred. Nevertheless, I recommend submitter redraw so there is no question that her beast meets the guidelines.

Note that http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html#IV.C, section 1, "Submission Forms", provides:
Black-and-white generally means "coloring book style" or "line drawing", though black portions may be colored in.
Making the polypus black in the b&w would allow including internal detailing that persists in the color version rather than being, well, blacked out into a silhouette.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:17:10
Looks OK. No conflicts found. Iago's blazon seems good to me.


25: Thomas the Oppressed -New Name & New Device

Gyronny arrondi of 6 argent and azure, a rat statent proper

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Meaning (a description- being Oppressed) most important.

Thomas- s.n. Thomas; Family search; https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VH62-DQ9

the Oppressed- by name/nickname -A Brief Introduction to Medieval Bynames, https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/bynames/

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:50:20
No need for Family Search here.

<Thomas> is a male given name found in the DNMES in 1408 http://dmnes.org/cite/Thomas/1408/GCCYork

<the Oppressed> is a constructed byname. The word appears in the Middle English Dictionary https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED30776 and was used in period.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:17:49
Don't see the surname in the cited source.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-10-30 05:29:15
I think the submitter just wanted to show the use of "oppressed" in period.
The examples from the url provided are from 2. c. and I believe are from the 1392 Wycliff Bible, Isaiah 1:17. "Helpeþ to þe oppressid, demeþ to þe faderles child, defendiþ þe widuwe." Helpeth to the oppressed. Also Jeremiah 21:12 "Delyuereþ out þe oppressid [WB(2): hym that is oppressid] with force fro þe hond of þe wronge chalengere." Delivereth out the oppressed. See image.

1: Image 1

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:32:24
Rats come in many colors and don't have a defined proper. In this case, the tincture is a light gray which parses as argent.

Alona Ezquerra at 2018-10-05 20:21:00
And an argent rat has no contrast against the argent portions of the field, making it unfortunately unregisterable. Id suggest either changing the argent bits of the field to Or, or changing the tincture of the rat.

Alona Ezquerra at 2018-10-04 22:02:14
SFPP for a gyronny arrondi field with charges on, but that's the only one.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 21:46:43
Despite our Sovereigns having made pretty much that statement more than once, it needs to be sharpened to match the evidence that generated it.

At http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/07/05-07cl.html, "From Wreath: Gyronny Arrondi", the discussion concluded that because there was period evidence for it, "gyronny arrondi may be drawn so that the corners of the shield are in the center of a gyron rather than having the line of division issue from the corner" without penalty. However, for corresponding lack of evidence, "The use of a central charge on a field drawn in this manner is one step from period practice. [Emphasis added.]" Later in the same paragraph, we're told, "Some examples of charged gyronny fields are found elsewhere in the SCA's period".

What our Sovereigns did was allow an unusual drawing of gyronny arrondi with a built-in IAP-like restriction: "You can have that style but we'd like you to use it only the way the style was used in period."

And then over time it got hazy ... so that sometimes your formulation is used to claim an SFPP when the lines of division for a gyronny arrondi issue from the corners, sometimes it's even a straight-line gyronny field with a central charge that's claimed to be a step off. Both of which the 2005 discussion show to be out of line with period practice. But the actual evidence-based rule is:

When a gyronny arrondi field is a) drawn so that the corners of the shield are in the center of a gyron (rather than having the line of division issue from the corner) and b) it has a central charge, then the design is a step from period practice.
Which indeed happens to be the case here! But the SFPP is not merely because it's a gyronny arrondi field with a charge on it.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:18:48
"statant" "The Glossary of Terms" says of the proper tincture of a mouse, "No default; must be specified". One assumes that this applies to a rat as well. Your best bet might be to call this "a gray rat statant proper". No conflicts found.


26: Valan Donato -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2014, via Trimaris.

Gyronny of 8 Or and Azure a hibiscus argent

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-10-03 22:21:29
Almost certainly presumes on:

York, House of The following badge associated with this name was registered in December of 1994 (via Laurel): (Fieldless) A rose argent. Important non-SCA badge

1 DC for field.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 22:16:56
I believe this clash could perhaps be avoided by coloring the showy center and pistil of the blossom differently than the petals, as they are in nature, to produce

Gyronny Or and azure, a white hibiscus proper

Consider the first image below, from http://www.justabovesunset.com/201011/html/white_hibiscus.html. (Special thanks to the Just Above Sunset photographer for acknowledging the possibility of fair use under U.S. copyright law.)

Or a design even more clearly not a rose

Gyronny Or and azure, a hibiscus in profile argent

with a shape a little more heraldically stiff than the second image below, a red hibiscus from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Emma de Fetherstan (Temperaunce) at 2018-10-20 17:28:56
Unfortunately I don't believe it will be possible.

Flowers in heraldry are uniformly either entirely affronty (roses), or "in profile" (lilies). There's the rare flower that we'll allow both ways (lotus blossom, and I believe poppies also flip back and forth). There's not a single flower that we allow to be depicted with any perspective.

I believe they pretty much squarely conflict with roses. (Another name for hibiscus is rosemallow, even, which tells you something right there...)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-21 18:01:01
When I said "heraldically stiff" I supposed I implied "not in trian aspect like the photographs".

I'd really like to see my second proposal sent up, appropriately drawn--but that's of course entirely up to the client!

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 21:48:33
I believe the blazon should read:

Gyronny Or and azure, a hibiscus argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:20:05
If we don't give anything for hibiscus vs. rose, conflicts include Iain Alisdair Padruig Seamus Andrea Stilbhard MacMhurich de Rannocha (whew!), badge reg. 8/79 via the East, "Gyronny of eight Or and gules, a rose argent barbed and seeded proper."


27: Valbrandr Strugr -New Device

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Valbrandr str?gr in October of 2010, via Trimaris.

Quarterly vert and sable a ram rampant contourney Or

Device Comments:

Sigrith parði (Sigrith Vigdisardaater) at 2018-10-04 21:26:11
I see no conflicts. There is a DC between sheep and goats, so it's clear of Kozima la Pellegrina's "Sable, a goat clymant to sinister Or."

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 22:40:15
(In case it matters: OSCAR's trying to say <Valbrandr strúgr>.)

Fixing a misspelling and adding the usual post-field comma:

Quarterly vert and sable, a ram rampant contourny Or

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:20:50
No conflicts found. Agree with Gerard's blazon.


28: William the Smith -New Name & New Device

Gules, on a pale argent two smith's hammers in saltire sable

William - s.n. William. English given name {[Withycombe]

the Smith - Occupational byname

Name Comments:

Lilie Dubh inghean ui Mordha (Pantheon) at 2018-10-01 12:57:49
Please cite your sources better.

<William> is a male given name found in Withycombe, s.n. William. It is also found in the DNMES in 1321: http://dmnes.org/cite/William/1321/EL-2

<the Smith> is an occupational byname, found in R&W, s.n. Smith as Ælfword Þe Smith, dated to 1100. Lingua Anglica would allow the byname 'the Smith'.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 22:56:46
I find no conflicts for <William the Smith>.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:21:18
Pantheon has provided the needed documentation.

Device Comments:

Sigrith parði (Sigrith Vigdisardaater) at 2018-10-04 21:45:25
I see no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:22:10
No conflicts found. Will this be a test of the ruling on "Symbols of Hate" in the July LoA&R?


29: Yaakov ben schml ha levi -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Argent star of David azure in chief azure three owls argent

Question- would counterchanged be appropriate here?

Device Comments:

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-10-01 16:29:24
Looks like the name is registered as
Yaakov ben Shmuel haLevi
This name was registered in October of 2007 (via Trimaris).

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-10-02 13:33:29
It's really hard to see that the star is interlaced. I thought at first that it was an azure star with a argent hexagon.

Alona Ezquerra at 2018-10-04 22:04:07
Blazon fu:

Argent, a Star of David and on a chief azure three owls argent.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 23:00:57
Concur with reblazon. ("Star" doesn't have to be capped, but it often is in our O&A.)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 23:00:15
Since you ask: No, you can't apply counterchanged between the field and an ordinary, only between compartments of the field.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:23:34
No conflicts found.


30: Zohara bat Levi -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2016, via Atlantia.

Argent, a pomegranate gules five needles sable within a border azure

This name was registered via Atlantia, March 2016

Device Comments:

Alona Ezquerra at 2018-10-05 20:24:41
I'm not entirely sure if this arrangement is blazonable, but I can try.

Argent, a pomegranate gules between five needles bendwise sable, a bordure azure.

Complexity == 7 (argent, azure, gules, sable, pomegranate, needle, bordure)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 23:05:42
I like yours pretty well. Alternatively, even though it would be the first orle of five joining those of six and eight in the O&A:

Argent, a pomegranate gules within an orle of five needles bendwise sable, a bordure azure

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-10-05 23:13:05
I'd like be able to see the needles' eyes in the colored version. Which is mere art criticism unless that impacts identifiability. I believe it does; these could as easily be nails, aka spikes, thorns, or pins.

What say you all? Does it?

Calpurnia Fortunata at 2018-10-08 08:58:09
I agree. I find it quite difficult to tell that those are needles.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-10-23 09:27:02
Agree with Alona's blazon. Also agree that the needles need to be thickened so that the identifying needle eyes are visible. No conflicts found.


Ever at Your Service,

I Remain,

Sibeal inghean Mhurchadha


OSCAR counts 13 Names, 2 Name Changes, 14 Devices, 2 Device Changes and 9 Badges. There are a total of 40 items submitted on this letter.

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