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Lochac LoI dated 2018-02-27

Unto the Lochac College of Heralds and those of the Known World does Lord Gunther Boese, Rocket Herald send greetings.

It is our intention to register the following items.

This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

1: Aonghus mac Griogair mhic Raghnaill - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2013, via Lochac.

Gules, a sword Or between two badgers combatant argent marked sable.

Consulting Herald Isabella de Bordeaux (Politarchopolis)

This is a resubmission for a December 2013 Laurel return.

Aonghus mac Griogair mhic Raghnaill. Device. Gules, two brocks combattant argent marked sable maintaining between them a sword Or.

This device is returned for blurring the difference between charge groups. The sword here is not actually maintained, as neither brock is touching it. It is neither clearly primary nor co-primary, as the brocks are substantially larger, nor is it clearly a secondary charge. If the brocks were drawn actually holding the sword, it would likely be interpreted as a sustained secondary charge between primary brocks.

Device Comments from Kingdom

Eleyne de Comnocke at 2018-01-23 16:28:23
To my eye, the three charges are co-primary and so the blazon changes to "...in fess a sword Or between two badgers combatant...". If the badgers are intended to be secondary, I would shrink them a bit and the blazon would be "...a sword Or between in fess two badgers combatant..."

Closest I found was:

Madrone Culinary Guild The following device associated with this name was registered in October of 1986 (via An Tir): Gules, in fess a spurtle, a dagger, and a spoon palewise Or.

With 1 DC for the type of over half the primary charge group, and another for the tincture of those same charges.

I did not find a conflict for either interpretation of the device.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-24 19:01:23
I would add the badgers may not be small enough to deal with the previous return issue. Read this quickly as it might get deleted.

Gunther Boese (Rocket) at 2018-02-12 07:20:14
This is a grey area so I have to send it up to Laurel. I agree though It looks like co-primary.

Isabella de Bordeaux at 2018-02-21 16:00:52
If the device is more co-primary, at laurel level the submitter is happy to go with whatever blazon they feel fits the device.The sword was increased in size from the original and the brocks made smaller but he is happy to go with ".in fess a sword Or between two badgers combatant."


This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

2: Cainnech Mcraith - New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

Consulting Herald Gabriella Borromei (Stegby)

Cainnech Is a Scottish male name from 12c as found in "Scottish Gaelic Given Names: For Men: Names of Scottish Gaels from Scottish Gaelic Sources" by Sharon L. Krossa https://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/men/cainneach.shtml

Mcraith Is a Scottish byname from 1624
Isobell Mcraith, Female, Christening Date: 25 Jan 1624, Christening Place: ALYTH,PERTH,SCOTLAND C11328-2 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ7F-8BQ

Name Comments from Kingdom

Drusticc inigena Eddarrnonn at 2018-01-23 21:01:28
This is a mixed Scottish Gaelic and Scots name, Appendix C allows this.

As per the Sept 2007 CL, "Mc" needs to be expanded to "Mac". http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2007/09/07-09cl.html

Black, Surnames of Scotland, sn. Macrae, has a "Macraith de Ospitali", dated to the reign of Malcolm IV, but I'm not sure if it helps as it looks like a given name? https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011274175;view=1up;seq=648

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-24 05:03:48
SENA Appendix A says in Scots unmarked patronymics are allowed, so it should be alright and would bring the Scots and Scottish Gaelic name elements into the 12th century, so well within 300 years of each other.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-24 05:03:55
SENA Appendix A says in Scots unmarked patronymics are allowed, so it should be alright and would bring the Scots and Scottish Gaelic name elements into the 12th century, so well within 300 years of each other.

Brían dorcha ua Conaill at 2018-01-24 05:51:10
As Drusticc notes, it would have to be expanded to <Macraith>.

In which case, why not go all Gaelic, to <Cainnech Mac Raith>.

The first problem being that <Mac Raith> is actually a given name (U1052.4 "M. Raith H. Donnchada rí Eoganacht Caisil", FM1194.11 "Lochlainn mac Mic Raith Uí Chinneittigh"), but even then there are examples of it as a surname. Maybe it's a mistake, but they are clear, and they are there.

Co1241.14 Aengus Mag Raith sacart Cormaic Meic Diarmata
FM1243.1 Petrus Mac Raith
FM1271.1 Siomon Macc Raith deccanach Arda Carna

Co1291.12 Edruth Mac Raith abb Locha Ce
Co1301.6 Matha Mac Raith sacart mor Ardda Carna
U1340.15 Nícol Mag Raith
FM1344.3 Niocól Macc Raith comhorba Tęrmainn Da Beoucc
U1384.10 [fem] Lucia, ingen h-Ui Taichligh, ben Muiris Meg Raith, .i. comarba Termuinn Dabeog
Co1411.8 Diarmait mac Gilla Isa Meg Raith ollam Tuadmuman
U1415.1 Aedh Og Mac Raith
U1423.5 Mag Raith Termoinn Dabheoig, .i. Marcus, mac Muiris Meg Raith
U1423.5 [dat] Sheaan Mhor Mhag Raith

... and we can see that by the 14C, <Mag Raith> had well and truly become a surname in its own right, and about the middle of the 15C we stop seeing it as a given name.

The Krossa article cited notes the name from the 12th Century (in the Book of Deer), but also what look like perfectly good cites from 1467. The earliest bearer of the name in the Irish Annals is a Saint in the 6th Century

CS516.1 Cainnech Achaidh Bó
T518.1 Caindeach Achaidh Bó
U521.1 Cainneach Achaid Bó
FM598.2 S. Cainnech, abb Achaidh Bó
T598.1 [gen] Caindich Achaidh Bó Cainnigh
I603.2 [gen] Cainnich meicc h-ui Dáland

who merited a Coarb

U928.8 Ciaran, comarba Cainneich
I1005.4 [gen] Oengussa m. Bressail, comarbai Chainnich
U1008.1 Mael Muire comarba Cainnich

and a devotional name

LC1189.10 Maol Cainnich .H. Fercomhais, ferleiginn Doire

So the Saint's Name rule applies as well.

Gabriella Borromei at 2018-01-26 06:17:31
Submitter originally wanted Mc Raith as the byname but advice seem to saynit would not pass. It is the sound of the name that is most important.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/03-56-29_Cainneach_(Scottish_Gaelic_Given_Names_for_Men)_1.jpg


This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

3: Dalla Spàkona - New Name Change & New Device Change

OSCAR NOTE: filing name should not be registered for a primary name change. It was, in in May of 2018, via Lochac.

Per pale sable and gules, three drinking horns fretted in triangle within three wolves courant contourny in annulo argent

Old Item: Catalin Dalmatin, to be released.
Old Item: Per saltire sable and gules, a talbot rampant within a bordure ermine., to be released.
Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.

Consulting Herald Glynnis Hollindale (St Florian de la Riviere)

Dalla is a female Viking name as found in "Viking Names found in Landnámabók" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Spàkona is a viking byname as found in "Viking Bynames found in the Landnámabók" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html

Name Comments from Kingdom

Eleyne de Comnocke at 2018-01-23 16:09:22
The name can also be documented from Geirr Bassi:

Dalla is listed as a feminine name on page 9. Spàkona is listed as a byname on page 28, meaning prophetess.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-24 19:17:56
There's a typo -- it's spákona.

The byname has been registered recently too, eg. Astriðr spakona on the May 2017 LoAR (just in case anyone is worried about it being a claim of supernatural powers.) (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/05/17-05lar.html#192)

Device notes from Kingdom

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-29 03:44:35
Now what I'm not sure of: Do both the blazon and the emblazon work well enough to avoid blurring between primary and secondary charge groups? (Compare the discussion above at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=4981&dsn=82809#1 in this letter for Aonghus mac Griogair mhic Raghnaill's device and its returned predecessor, viewable at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=35424.)


This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

4: Daniel de la Guerre - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 2016, via Lochac.

Per saltire azure and gules, a quatrefoil Or.

Consulting Herald Amelot de Akeney (Politarchopolis)

PTC with "Celestine de Chatham: Per chevron sable and vert, a quatrefoil Or with only one DC for changing the field." is supplied.

This was returned before http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=66850

Daniel's device was returned on the October 2016 LOAR for the following reason:

Daniel de la Guerre. Device. Per saltire azure and gules, a quatrefoil Or. This device is returned for the depiction of the primary charge. Blazoned on the Letter of intent as a quatrefoil, the primary charge is a shape with four lobes that lack the narrowing towards the center that the leaves of a quatrefoil have. Had it been drawn as a proper quatrefoil, it would have had to be returned for conflict with the device of Celestine de Chatham: Per chevron sable and vert, a quatrefoil Or with only one DC for changing the field.

Device Comments from Kingdom

Eleyne de Comnocke at 2018-01-23 16:12:59

The depiction of the quatrefoil now looks unremarkable.

I do not see any other conflict assuming there is a DC for orientation:

Stromgard, Barony of The following badge associated with this name was registered in March of 2004 (via An Tir): (Fieldless) A quatrefoil saltirewise slipped Or.

Brunissende Dragonette (Wreath Emerita) at 2018-01-23 20:58:40
Beautiful. I'm glad you got a PtC

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-29 05:01:44
I must disagree in one respect with my esteemed colleague Lady Eleyne: I consider submitter's depiction of the quatrefoil remarkable for its elegance.

As for difference, there is certainly no SC for a quatrefoil's orientation; http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5E5b finds rotated mullets lacking "meaningful visual difference" under that paragraph. However, I believe that http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5G7c, "Change of Orientation for Identical Inanimate Charges", gives a DC for orientation of a quatrefoil: "When the compared charges are identical, compact charges that have clearly distinguished directionality can receive a distinct change for differences in facing."

Iff my colleague and I are correct--I have found no precedent either way--then the Barony of Stromgard's badge, Mar 2004, (Fieldless) A quatrefoil saltirewise slipped Or, is clear of the submission by 2 DCs.

In any case, we need not concern ourselves with roses. Quatrefoils do conflict with cinquefoils (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/12/13-12lar.html#209), so any conflict check here must include a ROSE line to find them if relevant, and cinquefoils conflict with roses (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/10/17 10lar.html#183), but http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/09/10-09lar.html s.n. Rowena Moore quotes with approval the LoAR of October 1995: "Quatrefoils and roses do not appear to have been considered equivalent charges in our period".

However, we run into the very strange fact that a rue flower is also coded ROSE in our O&A. I say strange because a Google image search shows that blossom to be very nearly a quatrefoil Or seeded vert with prominent anthers (or whatever those are) Or, e.g. the image below from http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2016/04/herb-of-the-week-rue/. I therefore find worrisome for this submission Ragna Dzintara of Amberhall's badge, Nov 1982, (Fieldless) A rue flower Or slipped and leaved vert. [Ruta graeveolens], and am contacting our excellent archivist@heraldry.sca.org for the registered emblazon. I hope to be as prompt in my posting as she will undoubtedly be in her response.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-29 17:14:41
This ancient pre-Modest Proposal ruling is all that was found for Ragna Dzintara of Amberhall. [August 1992 LoAR, R-Trimaris] Catherine Elizabeth Anne Somerton. Device. Per fess azure and vert, a pansy Or marked sable. This conflicts with the Mon of Imabori (Hawley 37): Dark, an ivy blossom light. Comparing the emblazons showed no visible difference in the shapes of the two flowers; there is thus a single CD, for tincturelessness of the Mon.

It also conflicts with the arms of Cossington (Papworth 859): Azure, a rose Or. There's a CD for the field, but I cannot grant another CD for type of flower in this case. It's true that flowers of genus Viola have three large petals and two small ones; but in the case of the pansy, the size change is very hard to see. The petals' shape is the same for pansies as heraldic roses. Pansies don't seem to have been used as charges in period, so I must fall back on visual difference; and I must rule that pansies and roses are too close to yield a CD. The same arguments bring this clear of Lisa of Toad Hall (SCA), Azure, a sunflower proper; and Ragna Dzintara of Amberhall (SCA), A rue flower Or, slipped and leaved vert.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-29 21:59:59
I cannot think the argument clearly brings it clear of Ragna Dzintara, given the emblazon below.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-30 14:47:20
Likely, a four petaled flower conflicts with a quatrefoil, which is a four petaled flower. However, we have no ruling on quatrefoils and rue flowers. I would suggest the submitter be informed of the issue and asked if the risk of return is worth sending it up.

Amelot de Akeney at 2018-02-11 19:05:28
Submitter advised and we'll proceed with submission (noting the rue flower possible conflict).

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-37-59_22-00-00_Ragna_Dzintara_of_Amberhall_badge_1982.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-38-00_T-05-01-44_Rue_(ruta_graveolens).jpg


This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

5: Eilífr Lukasson - New Name

Consulting Herald ffride wlffsdotter (Politarchopolis)

Eilífr
Skaldic Poetry of the Scandinavian Middle Ages: U 1022 - Storvreta
http://skaldic.abdn.ac.uk/db.php?table=mss&id=17830

Has the inscription, interpreted in Old West Norse to be:
Vígi(?) ok Halfdan(?) ok Eilífr, Hákon, Rúnfríðr létu rétta stein
eptir Illuga(?), fǫður sinn. Œpir r[i]st[i] rúnar.

and in English:
Vígi(?) and Halfdan(?) and Eilífr (and) Hákon (and) Rúnfríðr had the
stone erected in memory of Illugi(?), their father. Œpir carved the runes.

The runestone is dated "V Pr4" or "Viking Age circa 1060-1100 CE."

Lukasson
Lind col. 749 sn. Lukas
Petr Lukas brodir, died circa 1200
Lukas Gudmvndarson, Diplomatarium Islandicum, 1384

It is assumed that the patronymic would be "Lukasson." As the name elements are within 500 years of each other, and within the Scandinavian language group, the combination is registerable.

Name Comments from Kingdom

Eleyne de Comnocke at 2018-01-23 16:45:58
The forename can also be documented in Geirr Bassi.

Eilífr is listed as a male name on page 9.

Geirr Bassi gives us no help on how to form the genitive of a name ending in -s, but following from the fact that names in -ss remain unchanged, and then in fact drop an s to become -sson the suggested Lucasson seems likely.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-40-13_Eilifr_-_Runestone.jpg


This item was on the 05-2018 LoAR

6: Rixenda de Ruppe - New Name

Sound most important.

Consulting Herald Eliana Darragone (River haven)

Rixenda is a female given name from 13c Languedoc as found in "Names from Thirteenth Century Languedoc" by by Cateline de la Mor https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/cateline/languedoc.html

de Ruppe is a byname from 13c Languedoc as found in "Languedoc Names circa 1300" by Arval Benicoeur (Josh Mittleman) https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/toulouse/toulouseraw.html

Name Comments from Kingdom

Eleyne de Comnocke at 2018-01-23 16:35:28

Note that only the numbered reports on the Saint Gabriel website do not require photocopies. The other name articles there do.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-41-52_Languedoc_Names_circa_1300__Raw_Data_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-41-54_Languedoc_Names_circa_1300__Raw_Data_9.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=948/2018-02-27/05-41-56_Names_from_13th_C_Languedoc.jpg


My thanks as always to those who commented on this letter at Kingdom.

Yours in service to Lochac,

Gunther Rocket


OSCAR counts 3 New Names, 1 New Name Change and 1 New Device Change. These 5 items are chargeable, Laurel should receive $20 for them. OSCAR counts 2 Resub Devices. These 2 items are not chargeable. There are a total of 7 items submitted on this letter.

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