SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

Outlands LoI dated 2016-04-29

From the Office of Rampart Herald

THL Khalidah bint Yahya'a (Nicole Riviezzo)

rampart@outlandsheralds.org

Unto the Sovereigns and members of the College of Arms of the Society, does Khalidah bint Yahya'a, Rampart Herald send her greetings.

What follows is the April 2016 Letter of Intent for the Kingdom of the Outlands.

I would like to thank Green Anchor & The NE Calontir Commenting Group, Liber, and all of the heralds who were kind enough to contribute comments on OSCAR.

It is my intent to register this April the following items from the Outlands' College of Heralds.

This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

1: Broddi hornabrjótr - Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 2012, via the Outlands.

Vert, a drinking horn fracted between in bend sinister a bear paw and a dragonfly argent

The previous submission, Vert, a cracked drinking horn fesswise argent, was returned on the December 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/12/15-12lar.html#Outlands_returns57) with the following: {This badge is returned for conflict with Æthelmearc's badge for their Order of the White Horn: (Fieldless) A hunting horn argent. There is one DC for fielded vs fieldless, but a hunting horn is fesswise by default and the strings, if any, are pure artistic license, worth no difference.}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

2: Cornelis van Veere - New Name & New Device

Vert, a chevron barry wavy argent and azure between three ships argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for Dutch after 1400.
Meaning (See documenation) most important.

Submitter specifically want "van Veere" meaning 'of the city of Veere' which has had city rights since early 1350's - want to avoid "van der Veere" meaning 'of the ferry' (Castle can't read the last word).

Cornelis found in article - "15th Century Dutch Names" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman)

Additional Documentation provided by Liber, Maridonna Benvenuti, and NE Calontir Commentary Group/Green Anchor:

<Cornelis> is found 7 times dated between 1432 and 1532 in the article "15th Century Dutch Names" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckleman). http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15.html

The city of Vere (modern: Veere) in Zeeland, Netherlands, can be seen on the map Caerte vande Vereenichde Nederlanden, dated between 1630-1650. An image of the zoomed-in area is attached, and the map can be found here: http://digitool.is.cuni.cz:1801/view/action/nmets.do?DOCCHOICE=1117522.xml&dvs=1459256890438~614&loc ale=en_US&search_terms=&adjacency=&VIEWER_URL=/view/action/nmets.do?&DELIVERY_RULE_ID=3&divType=&CO PYRIGHTS_DISPLAY_FILE=licence_mapy

We also have an IGI record showing another spelling of the locative form of the byname: Jan <van Veer>, m, 31 May 1587, Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands. Batch #C90035-1. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBPH-6X8 (https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1874/2016-03-29/08-22-43_veere.jpg)

So, that gets us to at least <Cornelis van Veer> or <Cornelis van Vere> -- the former is closest in time to the last documented form of <Cornelis> (1532-1587, only 55 years apart), which (sh)ould comply with the client's post-1400 authenticity request.

15th Century Dutch Names dates that spelling to 1432-33, 1478, 1478-81, 1478-81(S), 1481-88, 1518, 1531-32 http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15.html

Veere in that spelling also appears on the map of Zeeland by Ortelius, dated 1598. It can be seen in larger print at the following site:-- http://www.oudelandkaarten.eu/europa/item/zeeland-1598-orteliu.


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

3: Dagrun Ljufudottir - New Name

Sound (Norse) most important.
Language (Norse) most important.
Culture (norse) most important.

The previous submission, Dagrún Laufeydottr, was returned on the February 2016 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2016-01-lop/1602-lor.html) with the following: {The name is returned because Laufey is an unregisterable mythological name as it is the name of the mother of the Norse God Loki, per the April 2002 LoAR - Laufey rauðrefr (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/04/02-04lar.html). The commentors suggested the alternative of Ljúfudóttir which is the closest name, the College of Heralds has found, to what the submitter submitted.}

The submitter really likes the suggested alternate of "Ljufudottir".

Additional Documentation provided by Liber:

<Dagrun> appears in Geirr Bassi Haraldsson's The Old Norse Name on page 9.

<Ljufudottir> is a metronym formed from the given name Ljufa (GB, p. 13) following the rules for matronymic bynames in GB.


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

4: Danielle de la Rochelle - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Outlands LoI of August 31, 2015 as submitted.

Per pale azure and argent, on a mullet fimbriated a mullet within an orle counterchanged

The previous submission, Per pale azure and argent, on a mullet fimbriated a mullet counterchanged, was returned on the November 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/11/15-11lar.html#Outlands_returns26) with the following: {This device is returned for conflict with the device of Richard Longstride: Per pale azure and argent, a mullet counterchanged. Fimbriation does not count for difference. This emblazon is identical to Richard's emblazon with the exception of two counterchanged sets of fimbriation. In resubmission, the submitter should be careful to avoid excessive counterchanging. SENA A3F4 states "Any other counterchanging of charges over other charges must similarly be attested to be registered."}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

5: Dawn Schadue - New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2013, via the Outlands.

(Fieldless) A tarasque passant vert vorant of two human legs clothed azure

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=753/2016-04-29/10-06-45_dawn-1603-badge-1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=753/2016-04-29/10-06-47_dawn-1603-badge-2.jpg


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

6: Eleanora Jane of Canterbury - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in June of 1995, via Atenveldt.

Per chevron purpure semy of estoiles and Or, a unicorn sable

The previous submission, Per chevron purpure and Or, seven estoiles in demi-annulo Or, and a unicorn rampant contourny sable, was returned on the May 1996 LoAR via Atenveldt (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1996/05/lar.html) with the following: {"It has been ruled that an arch of charges is not period heraldic style. The ruling was originally for an arch of stars: `Stars surrounding only part of a charge is fantasy art.' [Baldwin of Erebor, 28 September 1984] It has since been extended to any charges `in arch'." (Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, LoAR October 1992, p. 30)}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

7: Gerlin von Tiesenhausen - New Name & New Device

Purpure, a chevron sable mullety of six points Or fimbriated argent between three bears sejant erect Or

No major changes.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

Gerlin - Found on the Feminine Names section of the German Names from Rottweil, Baden-Wurttemberg 1441 located on the Academy of Saint Gabriel Name Article Archive - www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/rottweil1441.html

Teisenhausen - Surname found in the "Geneological Handbook of the Baltic Knighthoods," used as early as 1210 through modern day.

The construction, Gerlin von Tiesenhausen, follows the accepted construction for locative bynames outlined in the college of heralds web site. This is the herald's best guess at construction as the modern use of this byname is 'von Tiesenhausen".

Additional Documentation provided by Liber and NE Calontir Commentary Group/Green Anchor:

<Gerlin> appears 5 times in "German Names from Rottweil, Baden-Wurttemberg 1441" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) at http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/rottweil1441.html

The byname <von Tiesenhausen> can be seen in Oratio Darinnen außführlich erkleret und dargethan wird... by Johannes Skytte (1609). The name Caspar <von Tiesenhausen> appears just above the highlighted area here: https://books.google.com/books?id=vzZZAAAAcAAJ&pg=PT38&dq=von+tiesenhausen&hl=en#v=onepage&q=von%20t iesenhausen&f=false

The citation in the book Geneological Handbook of the Baltic Knighthoods,1930 listed for 1210 is actually "de Tisenhusen". However it also seems to have a citation for "von Tiesenhausen" dated to 1556. The url is: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00000600/images/index.html?seite=408&pdfseitex=


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

8: Jocelyn de Honicombe - New Name

Sound (Similar in sound to the submitted name) most important.

[Jocelyn] - Submitter's legal given name. A copy of the submitter's driver's license is attached to document this per SENA PN2.B.2.e. (Castle has received the reference document.)

[de Honicombe] -- Robert de Honicomb' is found in Reaney & Wilson's A Dictionary of English Surnames, s.n. Honeycomb, dated to 1327. The scribal abbreviation has been expanded.


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

9: Khal Gan - New Name & New Device

Per bend Or and sable, a serpent coiled erect and a mongoose sejant erect respectant counterchanged

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

"Mongolian Naming Practices" by Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/mongolian_names_marta.html)

'Khal' is found as a male name in this article with 'gan' listed as an epithet or modifier meaning steel


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

10: Muirenn ingen Uí Thaidc - New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for Irish.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

[O Teigh] - http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/Woulfe/SortedByGaelicRoot_T.shtml

[Muirenn] - http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Gaelic.html

Originally submitted as <Muirenn inghean Tighe> but was changed by Kingdom, with the submitter's full input and approval to <Muirenn ingen Uí Thaidc> after internal commentors noted flaws with the name versus the documentation. Commentors gave a few options, the submitter picked the variant she liked best.

Additional Documentation and Thoughts provided by Liber, Ogress and NE Calontir Commentary Group/Green Anchor:

<Muirenn> appears six times in An Index of Names in Irish Annals by by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien), dated between 643 and 979, making this an Old or Middle Irish Gaelic given name. http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Muirenn.shtml

That means that we'd have to use <ingen> rather than <inghean> for the relationship.

O Teige is the form I find in the linked document, but that's the 16th and 17th C anglicized form of the name.

The masculine given name <Taidhg> that's the origin of the family name appears in the same article s.n. Tadc (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Tadc.shtml).

The documentation gives us the clan byname, but the form in the header is "Muirenn, daughter of a man named Tadc."

Using Sharon L. Krossa's Quick and Easy Gaelic Bynames (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/) and Lenition in Gaelic Naming Step By Step (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/lenitionstepbystep.shtml) articles, I get the following forms:

For the clan affiliation byname (closest to documentation provided), it would be <Muirenn ingen Uí Thaidc>.

For a patronymic byname (closest to the header), it would be <Muirenn ingen Taidc>.

Whether ingen or inghean is used depends on the language of the father's name, not the language of the given name.

Another option for the submitter is Anglicized Irish.

As Liber noted, <O Teige> appears as a 16th/17th cen. Anglicized Irish form in Woulfe p. 650 s.n. Ó Taidhg. Women used O- style bynames in late period Anglicized Irish as evidenced in "Names Found in Anglicized Irish Documents: Women's Names" by Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnglicizedIrish/Feminine.shtml)

Possible Anglicized Irish given names from Mari's article that could go with this byname include:

Marrin (1601)

Morrin (1597-98)

Murin (1585)

Murrine (1601)

Morrine (1601)

Remember that there can be up to 500 years between elements in the same language group. So a 979 Muirenn can be combined with Early Modern elements up to 1479. So <inghean Taidhg> or <inghean Uí Thaidhg> are registerable but less authentic options.

O Teige in Woulfe as an anglicization of Ó Taid.g (Ó Taidhg). I don't find Tighe anywhere. Tadc / Tadhg is found in Mari's Annals article with dates 976, 1154, 1158, 1410, 1444, 1450, 1201, 1259, 1260, 1265, 1269, 1272, 1452, 1462, 1471, 1474, 1476, 1486, 1493, 1497, 1500, 1502, 1503, 1512, 1513, 1515, 1519, 1534, 1537, 1554, 1556, 1567, 1578, 1580, 1583, 1593, 1607. -- http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Tadc.shtml Muirenn is found in 643, 645, 649, 743, 748, 828, 829, 831, 916, 917, 918, 962, 964, 972, 977, 979 -- http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Muirenn.shtml so "Muirenn ingen Thaidg" or "Muirenn ingen Thaidc" might work for her.


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

11: Nahrun Kabirun, Shire of - Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 1989, via the Outlands.

Per bend wavy argent and azure, two decrescents bendwise counterchanged

The previous submission, Azure, a crescent Or, overall a phoenix argent rising from flames gules, was returned on the August 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/08/15-08lar.html#Outlands_returns37) with the following: {This device is returned for having a "barely overall" charge. SENA Appendix I, Charge Group Theory, in defining overall charges states "An overall charge must have a significant portion on the field; a design with a charge that has only a little bit sticking over the edges of an underlying charge is known as "barely overall" and is not registerable." Here, only the extremity of two of the phoenix's feathers extend further than the outside limit of the crescent. It might not be possible to depict the phoenix as overall while maintaining the identifiability of the underlying charge.}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

12: Ragnvaldr of Rendlesham - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 2015, via the Outlands.

Argent, a bend sinister wavy gules between a valknut gules and two arrows in saltire sable

The previous submission, Per bend argent and gules, two valknuts counterchanged, was returned on the December 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/12/15-12lar.html#Outlands_returns57) with the following: {This device is returned for conflict with the device of Biorn Styrmisson: Per bend argent and gules, a drinking horn and a valknut counterchanged. There is only one DC for changing the type of half the charge group. There is a step from period practice for the use of valknuts."}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

13: Saikhan Nasan - New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound (see below) most important.
Language (see below) most important.
Culture (see below) most important.
Meaning (see below) most important.

Saikhan - meaning 'beautiful' found on the article "Mongolian Naming Practices" by Marta as tu Mike-Mysliwy (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/mongolian_names_marta.html)

Nasan - meaning 'life' found in the article "On the Documentation and Construction of Period Mongolian Names" by Bares-aghur Noran (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html)


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

14: Salomea Thorunska - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 2009, via the Outlands.

Per bend sinister engrailed argent and sable, in bend three reremice counterchanged within a bordure gules

A previous submission, Argent, a chevron engrailed gules between three bats sable within a bordure engrailed gules, was returned on the February 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/02/09-02lar.html) with the following: {This device is returned for violation of section VII.7.a of the Rules for Submission, which says that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." Too many commenters saw this as bats on clouds; under one in five of those shown the emblazon could provide an accurate blazon, even after studying it for many minutes.}


This item was on the 07-2016 LoAR

15: Wolf Krieger - New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Language (German) most important.
Culture (German) most important.

Krieger - Bahlow - Dictionary of German Names page 285

Wolff - Bahlow - Dictionary of German Names page 560

Additional documentation provided by NE Calontir Commentary Group/Green Anchor:

Working from the English translation of Bahlow, we find "Krieger" on p. 315, documented solely as a surname. There is no dated citation for the client's spelling. The entry for "Wolf(f)" is on p.620, with the client's spelling dated from as early as 1135. The "late-period surname as given name" loophole applies only to English. Wolf is found as both a surname and a given name - it is found as a given name in "German Names from 1495" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael -- http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/german1495.html, so that he could have "Wolf Krieger" or some variant.

Originally submitted as <Krieger Wolf> but was changed at Kingdom, with the submitter's full approval, to <Wolf Krieger> after internal commentors noted that <Krieger> is only documented as a surname and <Wolf> is documented as both a byname and a surname.


Thus ends the April 2016 Letter of Intent.

In Service,

THL Khalidah bint Yahya'a

Rampart Herald


OSCAR counts 8 New Names, 3 New Devices and 1 New Badge. These 12 items are chargeable, Laurel should receive $36 for them. OSCAR counts 4 Resub Devices and 2 Resub Badges. These 6 items are not chargeable. There are a total of 18 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos