SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

Outlands LoP dated 2016-02-22

Unto the Outlands College of Heralds, our respected friends and colleagues who give freely of their time to provide commentary, and all others who come by these letters, on this 21st day of February, A.S. L (2016 CE), does Lord Gauvain Eisenbein send greetings on behalf of Baron Randal Carrick, White Stag Principal Herald.

Here follows the Kingdom of the Outlands' Letter of Presentation for February, 2016.

Anyone may comment upon the items found herein, and e-mail commentary to the herald's commentary list is encouraged. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Please have comments on items contained herein to Rampart Herald by March 15th, 2016, for the decision meeting on March 16th, 2016. As a reminder, the College of Arms requests commentary on all items, including appeals.

I commend the local heralds for doing an outstanding job sending me electronic versions of all submissions. This makes things much easier. Please keep it up!

I am now on a professional sabbatical in Artemisia. For the next several months, my Lady wife will be collecting submissions and mailing them to me for processing. Because of this added delay, it is critical that submissions make it to me by the first of the month, or they will be delayed until the following month's letter.

1: Adriana Lopes de Rodas -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2012, via the Outlands.

Azure, a bend Or, three stars and a wolf rampant argent

The previous submission, Party per pale, waves argent and azure within a bordure Or, 7 crescents argent and gules, a wolf rampant sable and a tower argent, was returned on the August 2012 LoP (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2012-07-lop/1208-lor.html) with the following: "Returned for marshalling (combining two sets of arms in one device, while very period, is not registerable under the Standards of Evaluation for the Society). Further, this device includes color on color (black on red) and metal on metal (silver on gold) contrast issues."

Consulting herald: none given (Fontaine dans Sable)


2: Catherine Stowe -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.

[Catherine] - Kathleen M. O'Brien, "Feminine Given Names Found in the 1332 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Lincolnshire, England (sorted by Frequency)" https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/LincLSR/GivenFeminineFreq.html: <Catherine> 11

[Stowe] - "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JW2F-JJ9 : accessed 29 January 2016), Richard <Stowe> in entry for Judith <Stowe>, 04 Nov 1568; citing SAINT NICHOLAS,IPSWICH,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 0991948 IT 7, 12, 599889. Batch P01262-1

Consulting herald: Warenus de Fulmere (Nahrun Kabirun)


3: Gormr Ragnvaldsson -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Or, a dragon in annulo within a crescent gules, a bordure embattled sable

Consulting herald: Warenus de Fulmere (Nahrun Kabirun)


4: Hugh Fletcher -New Name & New Device

Argent per fess embattled and paly of ten gules and Or, in chief a rat rampant sable

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Language (English Tudor Period 1450-1550) most important.
Culture (English Tudor Period 1450-1550) most important.

See attached.

Consulting herald: Mlodn the Mercheant (Windkeep)

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-06-47_hugh-1602-name-1.jpg


5: Lőrinc Ötög -Resub Name Change From Holding Name

OSCAR NOTE: filing name should not be registered for a primary name change. It was, in in June of 2016, via the Outlands.

Old Item: Lőrinc of Nahrun Kabirun, to be released.
No major changes.

The previous submission, Lörinc Ötög-äke was returned on the November 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/11/15-11lar.html#Outlands_returns26) with the following: "Appendix A of SENA does not include the pattern of a Mongolian double surname combined with a given name, nor for a double surname with Hungarian. Without evidence to support the construction of this name, we are not able to register it. We note that the wholly Mongolian Ötög äke would be registerable on its own. Lörinc Ötög is also registerable, as Appendix C of SENA allows the combination of Hungarian and Mongolian elements. We are returning the name to allow the submitter to consider his options.

The submitter may wish to know that Kolosvari Arpadne Julia noted that, "Lörinc is a constructed spelling of the Hungarian form of Laurence, based on 1240: Leurenc (Fehértói s.n. Leurench), 1560: Lőrinch (Walraven 16c), 1569: Lörincz (Kázmér s.n. Lőrinc), and 1574: Leōrinc (ibid)."

His device is registered under the holding name Lörinc of Nahrun Kabirun."

[Lőrinc] - documentation provided by Kolosvari Arpadne Julia in previous commentary: Walraven van Nijmegen's "Hungarian Personal Names of the 16th Century" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/hungarian/index.html) dates Lo"rincs (which is his pre-Unicode workaround for Lőrincs) to 1560, and Kázmér s.n. Lőrinc has 1569 Lörincz Péterand 1596 Lörinch Andras.

[Ötög] -http://www.s-gabriel.org/3375 specifically mentions "ötege" and "ötöge" as words for "bear", and goes on to mention that they could plausibly be used as elements in a period Mongol male name: We were able to find a mid-14th century word <o"tege> 'bear' in the Ilkhanate. <O"tege> and a variant spelling <o"to"ge> 'bear, old man' were also recorded in Chinese and Uighur scripts in other parts of the Mongol Empire

"ON SOME MONGOLIAN NAMES OF WILD BEASTS", NICHOLAS POPPE, Central Asiatic Journal, Vol. 9, No. 3 (September 1964), pp. 161-174 This article states that "ötege" was used in Middle Mongolian as "bear". See image of page 170 attached.

"From animal to name, remarks on the semantics of Middle Mongolian personal names", Volker Rybatzki, University of Helsinki This academic paper mentions "Ötöge 'bear'" in a group of Middle Mongolian totemic names. See image of page 336 attached.

Per Laurel on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/11/15-11lar.html#290: "Lörinc Ötög is also registerable"

(The submitter is fine with the minor changes "Ötög" to "Ötöge" if it comes to that.)

Consulting herald: Warenus de Fulmere (Nahrun Kabirun)

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-10-38_lorinc-1602-name-1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-10-41_lorinc-1602-name-2.jpg


6: Máría Abramsdottír -Resub Device

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Máría Abramsdottir in December of 2006, via the Outlands.

Purpure, an angel sinister argent

The previous submission, Purpure, an angel volant to sinister argent, was returned on the December 2006 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2006/12/06-12lar.html) with the following: "Barring evidence of angels volant as period heraldic charges, they are not registerable. By precedent, from the tenure of Baldwin of Erebor, the term volant is used only for insects and birds - the term is ambiguous for other winged creatures (q.v., BoE, 3 Aug 86, p.17). For heraldic purposes, this submission's posture cannot be blazoned: it doesn't fit the definition of volant for either birds (which would have the body horizontal, wings spread to chief and base) or insects (which would have the angel's back facing the viewer). Nor could the human part alone be blazoned if the wings were ignored: it's neither rampant, salient, nor statant."

Submitter has attempted to redraw angel and no longer lists "Volant" in Blazon. Acknowledges that angel is a step from period practice.

Consulting herald: Angus MacFarland (Fontaine dans Sable)


7: Oleksy Schwinghammer -New Name & New Device

Paly argent and sable, between a lymphad and two bulls heads cabossed gules, a pall Or

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound (First syllables of given name need to sound like) most important.

[Oleksy] - Taszycki, Witold "Słownik Staropolskich nazw osobowych" volume 1, p. 28-29 (attached) has: <Oleksy> 1386 Hb 5 s. 59, 1390 Krak 5431, 1406 Leçz II 2680, 1426 Zakr I 2622, 1437 Zakr II 2749, etc.

(Note: the submitter would really prefer to register "Oleg" as his given name, but we weren't able to document it in a time and place compatible with his surname. If the College is willing and able find such documentation, then please register Oleg instead of Oleksy.)

[Schwinghammer] - "Deutschland Heiraten, 1558-1929," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NZLT-GNP : accessed 28 January 2016), Hanns <Schwinghammer> and Anna Stockhers, 05 Jan 1568; citing Stuttgart, Württemberg, Germany; FHL microfilm 1,055,689. batch M91614-9

Brechenmacher p 590 has an entry <Schwing(en)hammer>, dated citations are <Schwingdenhammer> 1410, <Jakob Schwingenhammer> 1476

The combination of a Polish given name and German surname is allowed per SENA appendix C.

Consulting herald: Warenus de Fulmere (Nahrun Kabirun)

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-11-52_oleksky-1602-name-1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-11-54_oleksky-1602-name-2.jpg


8: Rónán Supélach -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2012, via the Outlands.

(Fieldless) An A-frame plumb-line per pale sable and vert

Consulting herald: Gauvain Eisenbein (Caerthe)


9: Svein hammar -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2006, via the Outlands.

none given

The previous submission, Gyronny arrondi of sixteen azure and argent, an arm fesswise embowed Or and on a chief azure three mallets fesswise argent, was returned on the June 2015 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/06/15-06lar.html#Outlands_returns25) with the following: "This device is returned for lack of documentation of the pattern used of a gyronny arrondi of sixteen with a central charge. Per SENA appendix G, a central charge on a gyronny arrondi field drawn with the corners of the field in the center of a gyron is a step from period practice. Per long standing precedent, a gyronny of sixteen with a central charge is also a step from period practice. Thus, the use of a gyronny arrondi of sixteen field with a central charge would need documented as an individually attested pattern.

Additionally, the chief shares its base tincture with half of the field it's in contact with, which impairs identifiability."

Consulting herald: none given (Draca Mor)


10: Thurgar Oddrson -New Name & New Device

Per bend gules and sbale, a snake nowed argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

[Thurgar] -Saxon name from: "Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 3190", found under [8] Examples from late pre-Conquest charters. http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?3190+0

[Ottrson] -

[Ottr] - Masculine Viking name Found in "Viking Names found in Landnámabók" http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html Dr. Fleck's work list name 24 times.

Patronymic name construction as outlined in the SCA heraldry article: "Vanhat nimityyppimme (Finnish Names)" http://heraldry.sca.org/names/FinnishNamesArticle.htm. "A matronymic indicates a mother's name and a patronymic the father's. A patronymic was the norm, a matronymic was used probably only if the father wasn't known (for exampleMaijsa Lucija dotter). Most of these names were derived from the father's (or mother's) first name,"

Examples from site include uninpoica (Suni's son), Laso Bengtin (Pentti's son)

Therefore Ottr (father) + son = Ottrson (Lingua Anglica)

Consulting herald: Angus Reid MacFarlane (Fontaine dans Sable)


11: Yesid Aquila -New Name & New Device

Per chevron argent and purpure, two drawn bows with arrows nocked sable and a dove close contourney sable on a hand argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.

[Yesid] - Crabb, George "Universal Historical Dictionary: Or, Explanation of the Names of Persons and Places in the Departments of Biblical, Political, and Ecclesiastical History, Mythology, Heraldry, Biography, Bibliography, Geography, and Numismatics, Volume 2" (Baldwin and Cradock, and J. Dowding, 1833) p. cx "Moawiya II, son of <Yesid> and grandson of the preceding, succeeded his father when he was only 21 years of age, and abdicating the government a few months after, died in the year of the Hegira 64, A. D. 674 (https://books.google.com/books?id=GvtCAQAAMAAJ) (see attached)

Also the submitter's legal name, New Mexico driver's license provided to Castle.

[Aquila] - <Aquila> is found as a cognomen in "A study of the cognomina of soldiers in the Roman legions" by Lindley Richard Dean at p. 136 (http://books.google.com/books?id=MF0KAAAAIAAJ) (see attached)

Consulting herald: Warenus de Fulmere (Nahrun Kabirun)

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-19-03_yesid-1602-name-1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2016-02-20/02-19-06_yesid-1602-name-2.jpg


Thus ends the February Letter of Presentation. See you at Estrella and Gulf Wars!

In Service,

Gauvain Eisenbein

Outlands Castle Herald


OSCAR counts 5 Names, 1 Name Change, 8 Devices and 1 Badge. There are a total of 15 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos