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Outlands LoP dated 2015-01-13

December 11, 2014 From the Office of the Castle Herald

Gauvain Eisenbein

castle@outlandsheralds.org

Unto the Outlands College of Heralds, our respected friends and colleagues who give freely of their time to provide commentary, and all others who come by these letters, on this 13th day of January, A.S. XLIX (2015 CE), does Lord Gauvain Eisenbein send greetings on behalf of Baron Randal Carrick, White Stag Principal Herald.

Here follows the Kingdom of the Outlands' Letter of Presentation for January, 2015.

For all resubmissions (names *AND* devices), please include where the previous submission was returned. This makes it dramatically easier to give the submitter credit for the previous submission. As always, I am requesting a text copy of all name write-ups.

Anyone may comment upon the items found herein, and e-mail commentary to the herald's commentary list is encouraged. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Please have comments on items contained herein to Rampart Herald by February 17th, 2015, for the decision meeting scheduled for February 18th, 2014. As a reminder, the College of Arms requests commentary on all items, including appeals.

1: Frederick Fortescue -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound (Late 16th C English, sounds like submitted name, spelling can be changed if necessary) most important.
Language (Late 16th C English, sounds like submitted name, spelling can be changed if necessary) most important.
Culture (Late 16th C English, sounds like submitted name, spelling can be changed if necessary) most important.

[FREDERICK] - Masculine given name. IGI Batch M00183-1, Marriage of Frederick Cristian on 26 February 1586 in Saint Andrew, Plymouth, Devon, England. Found at: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2ST-KBW

[FORTESCUE] - Family byname. IGI Batch M00183-1, Marriage of Arthur Fortescue on 16 August 1582 in Saint Andrew, Plymouth, Devon, England. Found at: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23M-WYZ

Consulting Herald: Christopher Devereux


2: Giacomo Malcuore -New Name & New Device

Bendy vert and argent, upon a heart sable, a cockatrice erect to sinister Or

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning (16th C Italian surname implying heartlessness/black-hearted) most important.

[GIACOMO] - Given name. Found in "Names from Sixteenth Century Venice" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith). Retrieved from: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/16thcvenice.html

[MALCUORE] - Descriptive byname following the Italian pattern of mal/a- (meaning ill, bad, or evil) + descriptor. In this case, MAL + CUORE ("heart"). Cuore appears in Florio's Italian/English Dictionary, Queen Anna's New World of Words, as does mál-/mále (retrieved from: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/florio/).

Examples of this naming pattern include Malatesta ("testa" meaning head, per Florio; BSB Cod.icon. 273, folios 21r, 22r), as mentioned in the article by Juliana de Luna above, and other examples found in Bayerische Staatsbibliothek Codices inconographici 273 (Insignia Venetorum nobilium III) and 274 (Insignia Veneta, Mantuana, Bononiensia, Anconitana, Urbinatia, Perugiensia), direct links found at: http://www.coblaith.net/Names/ItSur/MAL.html. Other examples from Venice are Mala Vita ("bad/ill spirited", BSB Cod.icon. 273, folio 32r), Mala Testa (BSB Cod.icon. 274, folio 51r), and Malfato ("ill-fated", "unlucky" or possibly "ill-made", BSB Cod.icon. 273, folios 23r, 24r), and other examples exist throughout Italy.

Consulting Herald: Christopher Devereux

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-16-50_giacomo1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-16-51_giacomo2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-16-52_giacomo3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-16-53_giacomo4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-16-53_giacomo5.jpg

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-18-42_giacomo6.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-18-43_giacomo7.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1489/2015-01-13/23-18-44_giacomo8.jpg


3: Guy Nagel -New Name & New Device

Guy Nagel

Spelling most important.

[GUY] - Given name. Found in "French Names from Paris, 1421, 1423, & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423.html

[NAGEL] - Byname. Found in "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Surnames" by Sara L. Uckelman (Aryanhwy merch Catmael). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html

Consulting Herald: Christopher Devereux


4: Hawisia de Groote -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (14th century England) most important.
Culture most important.

[Hawisia] - "14th Century Worcestershire Feminine Names" Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/femworc14.html)

[de Groote] - "14th Century Worcestershire Masculine Names" Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/surworc14.html)


5: Isabetta Nagel -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning (Nagel surname is paramount, first name as close to Isabetta as possible) most important.

[ISABETTA] - Feminine given name. Found in "Italian Renaissance Women's Names" by Rhian Lyth of Blackmoor Vale (Jo Lori Drake). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/italian.html

[NAGEL] - Byname. Found in "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Surnames" by Sara L. Uckelman (Aryanhwy merch Catmael). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html

Consulting Herald: Christopher Guy


6: Juliana Mele -New Name & New Device

Argent, a lion rampant gules, and on a fess azure overall, three mullets Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Spelling (Specifically, submitter desires Mele as her surname, as it is a family name) most important.

[JULIANA] - Feminine given name. Found in "Italian names from Imola, 1312" by Sara L. Uckelman (Aryanhwy merch Catmael). Retrieved from: http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/imolafemalph.html

[MELE] - Family byname. Found in "Masculine Names from Thirteenth Century Pisa" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/pisa/pisa-bynames-alpha.html

Consulting Herald: Christopher Devereux


7: Meliora de Berkeley -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2014, via the Outlands

Per chevron azure and purpure, a chevon argent between an incresent and a decresent and a winged fox sejant argent

The previous submission, Per chevron azure and purpure, a chevron argent between an incresent and a decresent Or, and a winged fox sejeant argent, was returned on the August 2014 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2014-07-lop/1408-lor.html) with the following: {Returned for a conflict with Anna Zen, registered August of 2007 (via the West): Per chevron azure and purpure, a chevron argent between two bears sejant erect respectant Or and a peach tree couped argent fructed Or. There is only one difference for changing the type of the secondary (A.5.G.4). Unfortunately, since the device follows the same color configuration, there is no second difference.}


8: Sylas Ian Clayton -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound (The sound of the name "Sylas Ian" is most important to the submitter) most important.

Name pattern: given+given+byname, late 16th C English.

[SYLAS] - Masculine given name. IGI Batch C03424-3, Christening of Sylas Cowcher on 26 March 1596 in Willoughby, Lincoln, England. Found at: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ6F-QV7

[IAN] - Masculine given name. IGI Batch M06080-1, Marriage of Ian Moore in 1608 in Leconfield, York, England. Found at: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJCY-F6X

[CLAYTON] - Byname. Found in "Bynames Found in the 1523 Subsidy Roll for York and Ainsty" by Karen Larsdatter (Karen Harris). Retrieved from: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/york16/bynamesalphabetically.htm

Consulting Herald: Christopher Devereux


9: Tristan Grey of Manchester -Resub Name & Resub Device

Vert, a bear dormant to sinister argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Spelling most important.

Tristan - From IGI: Tristan Parnell, male , marriage, 17 Feb 1618, St. James, Gawsworth, Cheshire, England, Spouse: Arth Betby, Film Number: 1999985

From IGI: Tristan Johnson marriage: 15 November 1615 St Nicholas,Great Yarmouth,Norfolk,England batch number: 7001206

IGI batch type code: 2

IGI sheet number: 97

IGI serial number: 00419

source document type: CHURCHREC

From IGI: Tristan Holland

marriage: about 1619

of London, England

batch number: A00316-4

IGI batch type code: 1

IGI film number: 183473

From IGI: Tristan Thomas

birth: about 1593

, Kent, England

death: 25 March 1670

appears in Aryanhwy merch Catmael's "Names from a 1587 Tax Roll from Provins" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/provins1587.html).

Spanish Names from the late 15th Century" http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/MensGivenAlpha.html Cited 2 times

Grey - appears in "Index of Names in the 1582 Subsidy Roll of London" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael ( http://ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/engsurlondon1582a-m.html )

Grey is found in Reaney and Wilson, sn. Gray. His preferred spelling is dated to 1296.

As a purely English Name this would appear to be passable. Combining the French "Tristan" with the English "Grey" would also be permissible in accordance with SENA Appendix C

From earlier commentary:

The name works as entirely Spanish: <Joan Grey> father of <Catherina Monserrada Grey>, christened 1562, Spain. Batch no. C89234-1 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FFDX-DL1)

<Tristan Ximenez> married 1587, Spain. Batch no. M89496-4 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F59J-VYS)

POSSIBLE CONFLICT: Triston de Grey; the pronunciation of Triston would have the long "o" sound and a silent "n". Tristan would have either a schwa or soft "a" sound with a prounounced "n". Furthermore, the removal of the article "de" further changes the look and sound.

TO CLEAR THE CONFLICT the locative "of Manchester" has been added. This follows form as noted in SENA Appendix A "English/Welsh".

of Manchester

Manchester was a city in England as shown in John Speed's extant map: http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/oldmap/speed/speed.jpg.

The previous submission, Tristan Grey, was returned on the October 2014 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2014/10/14-10lar.html) with the following: {Unfortunately, this name conflicts with the registered Triston de Grey. The given name is identical in pronunciation in English, and PN3C2 of SENA excludes articles and prepositions like de from counting towards a substantial change.

The argument was made in commentary that this name could be documented as a wholly Spanish name, so the Spanish Tristan which would be different in sound from the French or English Triston. Just as we can't blazon our way out of an armory conflict, we can't redocument a name out of one. As Tristan Grey can be documented as both a French-English and Spanish name, both pronunciations need to be considered.

As the submitter does not allow the creation of a holding name, the armory must be returned as well.}

Consulting Herald: Jethro Stille


Thus ends the January 2015 Letter of Presentation.

In Service,

Gauvain Eisenbein

Castle Herald


OSCAR counts 8 Names and 5 Devices. There are a total of 13 items submitted on this letter.

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