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Middle ILoI dated 2012-08-13

Middle Kingdom ILoI dated 2012-08-13

Greetings unto THL Kriemhilt von Ebersberg, Dragon Herald, Meister Konrad Mailander, Rouge Scarpe Herald, and the commenting members of the Midrealm College of Heralds; from Lady Hiordis Ragnarsdottir, Escutcheon Herald.

Herein please find submissions received in July 2012. Unless noted, clients will accept a holding name.

All comments are due to Rouge Scarpe and Dragon by September 15, 2012.

1: Danté Conciapelli da Firenze -New Name & New Device

Vert a fox sejant gardant Or in chief argent three harps vert.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning (tanner or leatherworker) most important.

<Danté> "occurred 25 times" [Italian Names from the Online Tratte of Office Holders 1286-1532,]

<Conciapelli> "occurred 1 time", [Masculine Names from Thirteenth Century Pisa: Men's Bynames in Alphabetical Order]

<da Firenze> "locative, 'from Florence'", [Fourteenth Century Venetian Personal Names,]

2: Denis de Wahulle -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2009, via the Middle

[Fieldless] On a unicorn rampant purpure a heart Or.

3: Nadežda ze Zastrizl -Resub Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Per bend rayonny sable and gules in bend sinister two cat paw prints argent.

This was returned on the August 2011 ILoAR. []

Rouge Scarpe writes: "Device is returned for having multiple Steps from Period Practice (SFPP), armory is registerable with one SFPP but two or more are cause for return. Also the bevilled bend was drawn incorrectly which is a reason for return. Related precedents:

[returning Per chevron enhanced argent and sable, two pawprints and a wolf's head cabossed counterchanged.] The paw prints are one weirdness, and the per chevron enhanced is another. (Morgan Blaidd Du, 7/96 p. 19)

[a pawprint vs a cat's pawprint] ...we do not grant difference between types of pawprint. (Radbot Gunter, 10/94 p. 13)

"The use of charges on a field with a bend bevilled is a step from period practice." [Kilian MacAd, LoAR 04/2010, East-A]

This unfortunately was virtually the same reasons for return as the previous submission. The submitter needs to eliminate at least one of the two steps from period practice in her redesign. If she decides to keep the bend bevilled or per bend bevilled of the previous submission she should reference the 08/1992 LoAR Cover Letter to make sure it is drawn correctly. If she would like to keep the pawprints they should be blazoned as "cat's pawprints" instead of "cat prints""

4: Nadežda ze Zastrizl -New Correction of Name Change

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Old Item: Nadežda ze Zastrzizl, to be released.

When this was intered into the LoI it was accidently misspelled, it was intended to be sent up as <Nadežda ze Zastrizl>. Since changes had been made to the given name and article in Kingdom the change to the byname was not noticed as being out of the ordinary since it was also one of the forms recommended in the Internal commentary.

The submitter would prefer the spelling <Zastrizl> over the registered spelling.

Documentation and Commentary from original submission:

<ze Zastrizl>


All this page actually tells us is that there is a Czech place whose modern name is <Zástřizly>. According to <>, the first documentary mention of the place is from 1349, when it was in the possession of the family <Zástřizl>. <> goes further and says that the lords were <Artleb> and <Bozek ze

Zástřizl>. Neither gives references, but with some work I was able to track down the mention in question. It's in the Tabulae Terrae Moraviae, in Die Landtafel des Markgrafthumes Mähren, P. Ritter von Chlumecky, Joseph Chytil, Carl Demuth, and A. Ritter von Wolfskron, <>, p.6, nr. 142:

Artleb de Zastrziel vnit se cum Borcone fratre suo cum

omnibus que habent vbicumque.

<Borcone> is the Latin oblique case of <Borco>; in the index entry for <Borco> on p. iv the name is identified as <Bořek>, a pet form of <Bořivoj>; <Bozek> in the German Wikipedia article is apparently an error for <Bořek>. (<Artleb> is a borrowing of German <Hartlieb>.)

On p. 29 (nr. 591) and p. 77 (nr. 369) of the same source we find the name as <de Zastrzil> 1358, 1373, and on p. 55 (nr. 1118) as <de Zastrzl> 1368. A document of 1402 in Codex Diplomaticus et Epistolaris Moraviæ, Vincenz Brandl, ed., Brünn, 1897, has <de Zastrzizl> twice. <>

All of these are in Latin contexts. A German inscription of 1582 has <von Zastrzizl>. <>

The same spelling without the preposition occurs in a German language document of 1612, which mentions a <frau Bohuschin Zastrzizl>; she is identified in a footnote in modern Czech othography as <Bohunka Morkovská ze Zástřizl>.

<>, p. 48.

It would be nice, however, to have a form from a period Czech language document. It's not difficult to find any number of respectable sites showing that <ze Zástřizl> is the modern Czech form of the byname (e.g., the reference to a <Smil ze Zástřizl> living in 1435 at <>, and to a <Jaroslav ze Zástřizl> living in 1547 at <>).

However, Czech orthography has undergone major changes over time, so it's not safe to assume that this form is appropriate.

Since the name in question is known only from the 14th century and later, I'll ignore the very small amount of earlier written Czech. In the 14th century the sounds of Czech that weren't found in Latin were represented by digraphs (pairs of letters), much the way English uses <sh>, <ch>, and <th>. The specific system was similar to that of modern Polish, though by no means identical.

In what follows I'll write <c^>, <e^>, <r^>, <s^>, and <z^> for Da'ud notation č, ě, ř, š, and ž (i.e., for <c>, <e>, <r>, <s>, and <z> with háchek/caron), and I'll write <S> for long-s. There were many inconsistencies, but the following table shows the general pattern for the earlier and later 14th century: the first column gives the modern spellings, and the other two give the usual 14th century spellings.





s---------zz-----------s, S, SS





e^--------ie, ye-------ie, ye

r^--------rs, rS, rz---rz, rs, rS

s^--------SS-----------SS, s, S

z^--------s, S---------z

[ignore the ---- I had to put those in to get Talan's table to be readable.]

Long vowels were not marked at that time, so <Zastrzizl> is exactly what we might expect in the later 14th century. The spellings <Zastrziel>, <Zastrzil>, and <Zastrzl> correspond to modern <Zástr^iel>, <Zástr^il>, and <Zástr^l>.

Early in the 15th century someone, probably Jan Hus, suggested using diacritics instead of digraphs, marking long vowels with an acute accent (as is done today) and marking the so-called 'soft' consonants with an overdot (instead of

the modern háchek/caron). I'm not sure just when during the next two centuries the háchek replaced the overdot, and even as late as 1600 there were some fairly consistent differences from modern Czech spelling. Moreover, as you

might expect, the digraphic system didn't disappear overnight: a Czech language example from 1580 can be seen at <>, with <Proczka Starssyho ze Zastrzyzl>, with <cz>, <ss>, and <rz> for modern <c^>, <s^>, and <r^>, respectively. However, in the preceding and following documents, also from 1580, the name is spelled <z Zástr^izl> and <z Zástr^ízl>.

If the name <Nadezhda> was used, we might reasonably expect to see it as <Nadiezda> or <Nadyezda>, or perhaps <Nadiesda> or <Nadyesda> in the early 14th century.

If the combination is allowed (and that's properly Pelican's decision), I recommend using <Nadiezda> or <Nadyezda> for the forename and <ze Zastrzizl> or <z(e) Zástr^izl> for the surname.

5: Sazia de Sarro -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.

<Sazia> "occured once, 1339-1340", [Names from Périgueux, 1339-1340]

<Sarro> "Soror Agnissona de Sarro, 1351 pg 179", [Names from Aosta, 1337 and 1351]

6: Toly Woodsman -New Name & New Device

Perchevron argent and azure two tree stumps eradicated and in base an oak leaf within an ivy vine in annulo counterchanged.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning (Woodsman, Lumberjack) most important.

<Toly> 1273, under Bartholomew [Withycombe]

<Woodsman> English occupation

7: Xander Umbscheiden -New Name & New Device

Per pale sable and gules a polypus counterchanged.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No changes.

<Xander> IGI Extracted Records:
Xander Riem Male Christening 18 Jul 1580 Grossachenheim. Wurttemberg.Germany Batch C91733-1
Xander Widemmayer Male Christening 03 May 1585 Grossachenheim. Wurttemberg.Germany Batch C91733-1
Xander Kresler Male Christening 04 Nov 1569 Ulm, Wurtemburg.Germany Batch C02686-0

<Umbscheiden> IGI Extracted Records:
Lotharius Umbscheiden Male Christening 25 May 1607 LIEBFRAUEN KATHOLISCH, KOBLENZ STADT, RHEINLAND, PRUSSIA Frederico Umbscheiden Margrethae Batch C97097-1
Nicolaus Vmbscheiden Male Christening 17 Feb 1609 LIEBFRAUEN KATHOLISCH, KOBLENZ STADT, RHEINLAND, PRUSSIA Frederico Umbscheiden Margrethae Batch C97097-1
Veronica Umbescheiden Female Christening 04 Nov 1610 LIEBFRAUEN KATHOLISCH, KOBLENZ STADT, RHEINLAND, PRUSSIA Friderico Umbscheiden Margrethae Batch C97097-1
Christophorus Umbscheiden Male Christening 1604 ROEMISCH- AKTHOLISCHE, BERNKASTEL, RHEINLAND, PRUSSIA Umbscheiden (Mother's name) Batch C99436-1

Submitter provided three examples of counterchanged sable and gules devices from the Siebmacher Wappenbuch: plates 161, Die Zimmer; plate 162, V: Berbisdorf; and plate 182, V: Radenhavsen.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:

In Service,

Lady Hiordis Ragnarsdottir


THL Kriemhilt von Ebersberg

mka Sabine Lessing-Tyson

Rouge Scarpe:

Master Konrad Mailander

mka Dale Niederhauser


Lady Hiordis Ragnarsdottir

mka Skye Savage

OSCAR counts 4 Names, 4 Devices, 1 Badge and 1 Correction of Name Change. There are a total of 10 items submitted on this letter.

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