SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

East ILoI dated 2012-08-04

To the Heralds of the East and the Knowne Worlde, greetings and every good thing.

This letter includes all of the submission received between July 5, 2012 and the date of this letter. Please enjoy this relatively short letter, because the deluge of Pennsic submissions starts commentary next month. As always, my greatest thanks and appreciations to everyone who provides commentary.

When commenting, please keep in mind the continuing issues with Eastern Crown's scanner that tend to render greens as teals. If a submission is not colored with Crayola markers, I will mention it.

Commentary on this letter closes on September 10, 2012.

Your servant,

Alys Eastern Crown

1: Aildreda de Tamworthe -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2006, via the East

Per chevron argent and azure, three estoiles counterchanged

Consulting herald: Alys Mackyntoich

The identical device was returned on the July 2006 LoAR for conflict with Enid of Crickhollow's device, Per chevron argent and azure, two mullets of six greater and six lesser points and a swan naiant counterchanged, with a single CD for changes to the primary charges. Under the RfS, there was a significant, but not substantial (X.2), difference between mullets of six greater and six lesser points and estoiles.

Enid of Crickhollow has filed a blanket letter of permission to conflict which appears on the 6/30/2012 Ansteorra LoI (http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=23601). The letter grants permission for armory that is one countable step away from Enid's, which Aildreda's is, even under SENA.


2: Anlon Find mac Robartaigh -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in June of 2002, via Æthelmearc

(Fieldless) Three chevronels couped and braced azure

Consulting herald: Anlon Find mac Robartaigh


3: Caer Adamant, Shire of -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 1991, via the East

Azure, a pale vert fimbriated Or

Consulting herald: Lillia de Vaux

The identical badge was previously submitted and returned on the April 2010 LoAR for conflict with Cherie des Jardins, Azure, on a pale Or three crescents azure, and with the flag of Barbados, Azure, on a pale Or a trident head sable. With the changed treatment of tertiary charges under S.E.N.A., these conflicts no longer exist.


4: Cima bat Avraham -New Name & New Device

Argent, a horse rampant azure and a bordure counter-compony azure and Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Italian/Hebrew) most important.
Culture (Italian/Hebrew) most important.

Consulting herald: Abdullah ibn Harun

Cima is found in "Jewish Women's Names in 13th to 15th Century Navarre," by Julie Stampnitzky (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/navarra.html) with this spelling dated to 1286, 1305, 1312, 1328, 1334, 1340, 1341, 1342, 1351, 1370, 1377.

bat Avraham is from Eleazar ha-Levi's "A Jewish Memory Book: Nuremburg, 1349" (KWHSS Proceedings 2004).


5: Ernst Nuss von Kitzengen -New Heraldic Title

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Coach Herald

The submitter was created a Herald Extraordinary by the Brigantia Principal Herald of the East and the Crown of the East on June 30, 2012.

This heraldic title follows the pattern [surname] + [title] found in RfS III.2.iii.b and in S.E.N.A. NPN1.C.2.e.

Coach is an English surname found in the IGI Parish Records (extracts):

John Coach Male Marriage 14 Jan 1609 Saint Giles Cripplegate, London, London ,England Batch: M022431

Marye Coach Female Christening 08 Sep 1605 Landrake, Cornwall, England Batch: C052841

Rychard Coach Male Christening 31 Dec 1626 Thurmaston, Leicester, England Batch: P011291

Note that the submitter has a name correction in process to Ernst Nuss von Kitzingen.


6: Evan Hardrada -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 1993, via the East

Per pale gules and argent, a drakkar counterchanged and in chief two ravens close argent and sable

Consulting herald: Harold von Auerbach


7: Hans Herkomer -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 2012, via the East

Per bend sinister azure and sable, three mullets and a horse rampant argent

Consulting herald: Alana O'Keeve

The submitter's original device submission was returned on the October 2, 2011 East Kingdom LoD for conflict with Sasha Vladimir Obolénskij (06/1991, West)Per bend sinister azure and sable, a mullet of four points bendwise, elongated to dexter chief argent. Under the RfS, there was one CD for changing the number of primary charges.

This device is being resubmitted under S.E.N.A. A.5.E.3, which provides "Change of Number of the Primary Charge Group: A new submission which substantially changes the number of charges in the primary charge group from a protected piece of armory does not conflict with it." Since Sasha's armory has a single primary charge and the submitted armory has four primary charges, it appears to be clear of conflict.


8: Jean Oste de Murat -New Name & New Device

Azure, a chevron argent between two fleurs de lys and in pale a shrimp and two swords in saltire Or

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Client requests authenticity for French, late 15th century.

Consulting herald: Godfroy de Falaise

Jean appears as a masculine given name in "Names from Choisy, France, 1475-1478" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/choisy.html).

Oste appears as a byname dated to 1588 in "Flemish Names from Bruges" by Luana de Grood (http://www.s-gabriel.org/docs/bruges/byname-list3.html).

Jean Oste appears as a full name dated to c. 1345-46 at p. 313 of "Inventaire des Archives de la Ville de Bruges" (1873) and dated to 1339 and 1345 at p. 363 of "Annales de la Société d'Émulation pour l'Étude de l'Histoire & des Antiquités de la Flandre (1875). Photocopies of the relevant pages were provided.

Murat appears as a place name dated to 1239 at p. 457 of "Histoire Generale de Languedoc" (1737). Photocopies were provided. In addition, Arnaut de Murat appears dated to 1584 at p. 99 of "Les presidens au mortier du parlement de Paris , leurs emplois, charges, qualitez, armes, blasons et genealogies, depuis l'an 1331 jusques à present"(http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5597190m/f728.image), published in 1647.

While the name appears to be registerable as submitted, assistance from commenters is requested to make it authentic for the requested time and place.

Note that the use of two fleurs de lys Or on an azure field is not presumptive of the arms of France. By precendent:

There is no pretense problem with the use of two Or fleurs-de-lys on an azure field or charge. The strictures against the use of three or more Or fleurs-de-lys on an azure design element is due to the period practice of French augmentations that used the arms of France on an armorial element such as a charge or field. These augmentations were found using the ancient form of the French arms, Azure semy-de-lys Or, or the modern form, Azure, three fleurs-de-lys Or. An azure design element with only one or two Or fleurs de lys does not presume on these period augmentations. Per the LoAR of June 1995 p.13: "...It is thus the use of three or more fleurs-de-lys Or on azure which is restricted; not a single gold fleur on a blue field." [Davi d'Orléans, 07/2003, A-Caid]


9: Joscelin le esqurel -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2010, via the East

(Fieldless) A squirrel courant sable

Consulting herald: Joscelin le esqurel

The submitter currently has a registered device (September of 2011 via the East): Quarterly purpure and sable, three squirrels courant in annulo Or, and a registered badge (April of 2010 via the East): (Fieldless) On an acorn sable a squirrel Or. If this badge is registered, the submitter wishes to release his existing badge, (Fieldless) On an acorn sable a squirrel Or


10: Joscelin le esqurel -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2010, via the East

(Fieldless) A squirrel courant purpure

Consulting herald: Joscelin le esqurel

The submitter currently has a registered device (September of 2011 via the East): Quarterly purpure and sable, three squirrels courant in annulo Or, and a registered badge (April of 2010 via the East): (Fieldless) On an acorn sable a squirrel Or. If this badge is registered, the submitter wishes to release his existing badge, (Fieldless) On an acorn sable a squirrel Or


11: Joscelin le esqurel -New Badge Change

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2010, via the East

(Fieldless) A squirrel courant Or

Old Item: (Fieldess) On an acorn sable, a squirrel Or, to be released.

Consulting herald: Joscelin le esqurel

The submitter currently has a registered device (September of 2011 via the East): Quarterly purpure and sable, three squirrels courant in annulo Or, and a registered badge (April of 2010 via the East): (Fieldless) On an acorn sable a squirrel Or.


12: Kari Stormeye -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 1993, via the East

(Fieldless) A bear sejant erect ermine maintaining in its sinister paw a drinking horn Or

Consulting herald: Harold von Auerbach

The submitter has a registered device (October 1994 via the East): Per chevron ermine and sable, three griffins segreant counterchanged.

The submission is intended to be Fieldless, but was not submitted on a Fieldless badge form.


13: Neave MacGugyne -New Name

Submitter has no desire as to gender.

Consulting herald: Alys Mackyntoich

Neave is a late 16th cen./early 17th cen. English surname found in the IGI Parish Records:

Elizabeth Neave Female Christening 06 Dec 1590 All Saints, Icklingham, Suffolk, England Batch: C062552

Margaret Neave Female Christening 08 Sep 1548 Conington, Cambridge, England Batch: C130382

Thamar Neave Female Christening 15 May 1614 St. Michaels, Withyham, Sussex, England Batch: C152012

(and others)

By precedent, such surnames can be used as given names. [Alton of Grimfells, 04/2010, A-East]

Connor M'Gugyne appears in the Fiants of Elizabeth I dated to 1602-03, found in "Report of the Deputy keeper of the public records in Ireland, Volume 17, Parts 1885-1888" (http://books.google.com/books?id=_lURAQAAMAAJ) at p. 122. Because the College of Heralds does not register scribal abbreviations, the abbreviation M' expands to Mac.


14: Oleksandr Brazhnyk -New Name & New Device

Per fess Or and sable, an eagle displayed gules and an egg Or charged with a mullet of four greater and four lesser points gules

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 15th-16th cen. Zaphorian Cossack (Ukrainian).
Culture (Zaphorian Cossack (Ukrainian)) most important.
Meaning (last name meaning) most important.

Consulting herald: Honour Grenehart

Oleksandr is found in Paul Wickenden of Thanet, "A Dictionary of Period Russian Names" (http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/) s.n. Aleksandr with the submitted spelling dated to 1266.

Brazhnyk is found in Jiro, Jaroslav, Ph.D. 2004 "Naydavnishy register of Ukrainian Cossacks, 1581" ISBN 966-95841-6-7 (www.mymail.ru/community/zaporoje/1C52BD9D91B729CE.html). The article is a register of Ukrainian (Zaphorizian) Cossacks from 1581, written entirely in Russian. The submitter also enclosed a copy of Fedorkiw, Luba. 1977. Ukrainian Surnames in Canada, Master's Thesis, University of Manitoba (http://hdl.handle.net/1993/2500), which lists Brazhnyk and gives the definition "brewer."

In addition to the documentation provided by the submitter, "Occupational Bynames in Medieval Russia" by Paul Wickenden of Thanet (http://www.goldschp.net/archive/jobnames.html) gives Brazhnikov (dated to 1534) as an occupational byname meaning "brewer."


15: Sarra atte Brouk -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in May of 2012, via the East

Per saltire sable and purpure, a sheep statant contourny argent.

Consulting herald: Alana O'Keeve

The submitter's original device, Per saltire sable and purpure, a sheep statant argent, was returned on the January 2, 2012 Eastern LoD for conflict with Chlurain, Clan (reblazoned Nov. 2010, Atenveldt), Per fess gules and Or, a sheep passant argent, maintaining under its sinister foreleg a tub sable. Under the RfS, there was one CD for the field, but nothing for the removal of the maintained tub.

The orientation of the sheep has been changed to add a second difference.

This device would conflict with the badge of Alesone Gray of Cranlegh, Lozengy vert and Or, a sheep passant contourny argent marked sable enflamed gules and gorged of a coronet Or with four pearls argent, forwarded to Society on the East's July 9, 2012 LoD, assuming Alesone's badge is registered. An image of Alesone's device is below. Eastern Crown is pursuing permission to conflict.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=449/2012-07-28/18-01-09_AlesoneColor.JPG


16: Silver Rylle, Shire of -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 1988, via the East

Azure, on a pale wavy argent two roses proper

Consulting herald: Guy Lourance

The original badge submission, (Fieldless) A pale wavy couped argent was returend on the August 2010 LoAR for lack of identifiability. This substantial redesign makes the pale clearly identifiable.


17: Ulric von der Insel -New Heraldic Title

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 1991, via the East

Schwarzer Turm Herald

Language (unspecified) most important.
Culture (unspecified) most important.

Consulting herald: Ulric von der Insel

The submitter was created a Herald Extraordinary by the Brigantia Principal Herald and the Crown of the East on June 23, 2012.

This title is based on the pattern of heraldic titles based on charges found in "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" by Juliana de Luna (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/heraldic_titles_by_type.shtml). The examples given in the article include several instances of [color] + [object] in English, including:

Blaunche Senglier Pursuivant (c. 1547-8)

Blanch Lyon Pursuivant (1537)

Blanch Rose Pursuivant (1542)

Bluemantle pursuivant (1472 onwards)

Juliana's article contains no evidence of the [color] + [object] pattern in German, but we are hoping commenters can provide documentation. Juliana's article does provide support for heraldic titles based on place names in German, in the event that "Schwarz Turm" or something close to it can be found or constructed as a German place name.

Submitted as Schwarz Turm, which the submitter asserted is German for "Black Tower," no support for this assertion was provided. Further research indicates that the correct modern German for "Black Tower" is Schwarzer Turm and the name has been changed accordingly.


18: William Graham of Bhakail -New Name Change From Holding Name

OSCAR NOTE: 'Old Item' should contain the former primary name. The form that is there is not a registered name.

Old Item: William of Gleann nam Feorag Dhuibhe, to be released.
Submitter desires a masculine name.

Consulting herald: Alys Mackyntoich

The submitter's original name submission, William Graham, was returned on the April 2006 LoAR (R-East) for conflict with the evangelist, Billy Graham. The LoAR states:

[Billy Graham] has his own article in Britannica Online. Billy Graham is arguably as well known worldwide as other religious figures like the Dalai Lama or the Pope. This name conflicts with both the popular form of the name, Billy Graham and the full form, as names and their diminutives are not different for terms of conflict.

His armory has been registered under the holding name William of Gleann nam Feorag Dhuibhe.

Even under S.E.N.A., William Graham remains a conflict with Billy Graham. PN4.D states "For individuals important enough to protect, we protect all forms in which their name was known, including in other languages. . ." To clear the conflict, the submitter has opted to add the locative of Bhakail.

William appears in "Late Sixteenth Century English Given Names" by Talan Gwynek (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/eng16/eng16alpha.html).

Graham appears as a surname in Bardsley p. 410 s.n. Hutchins dated to 1586.

Bhakail, Barony of was registered in July of 1974.


19: Yue Biya -Resub Name & Resub Device

Per pale azure and purpure, two cockatoos respectant and in chief a plate between an increscent and a decrescent argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Spelling (preserve Biya) most important.

Consulting heralds: Alys and Lillia

Her original name submission, Biya the Jurchen, was returned on the April 25, 2011 Eastern LoD (http://ech.eastkingdom.org/ILoIs/2011/2011-03/2011-03-LoD.html) for the following reasons:

This name is being returned because the submission did not meet the requirements of RfS I.1, Compatibility. It failed to establish that Western Europeans had significant, direct contact with this particular culture prior to 1600. We found no evidence that Europeans knew of the Jurchen or Manchu - by any name - in period, although there was contact in the gray period after the foundation of the Qing Dynasty. A Persian historian, Mohammed En-Nesawi (1269) supposedly mentioned the fall of "Djerdja Khitāy" [Jurchen Cathay] [see K.A. Wittfogel, "General Introduction", In: Transactions, American Philosophical Society, vol. 36, Part 1, 1946, http://books.google.com/books?id=g08LAAAAIAAJ], but a footnote to this part of the book identifies this people as the "Tchourtché ou Niou-tchi, peuple qui habitait le bassin de l'Amour" [see Mohammed En-Nesawi, Histoire du Sultan Djelal Ed-Din Mankobirti, O. Houdas, ed., 1895; http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/arabe/nesawi/sultan.htm]. I also found no evidence that this book was ever known by Europeans in period. Although we know that Europeans had contact with Persians, the Ming Dynasty, and the Mongols, and the Jurchen had contact with at least one Persian, the Ming Dynasty, and the Mongols, evidence of secondary contact has not been accepted in the past:

This shows evidence of one European in Korea in the last decade of the 16th C, one slave trader who purchased five slaves, and some interaction between the one European in Korea and native Koreans. There is no evidence of Koreans in Europe prior to 1600, no evidence of regular trade, religious missions (larger than one individual), settlements, invasion, or other types of contact that we examine to determine whether cultures might have influenced each other. While there is evidence that Korea and Japan had substantial contact, and that Japan and Europe had sufficient contact to show some cultural trade, substantial contact between two non-European cultures (even when one has substantial contact with European cultures) is not sufficient evidence to allow registration of names from a culture with no evidence of substantial direct contact itself with European cultures [Yang SuGyong, 08/2007, Æthelmearc].

This was also discussed recently on the 11/2010 Cover Letter:

To register a personal name from a non-European culture, you need to present evidence that the culture in question had contact with Europe and Europeans before 1600. But before you get too concerned about presenting that evidence, take a look through LoARs to see if we've registered other names from that culture. If we've registered a name from that culture recently, don't worry too much about proving that contact again. However, there are many cultures that have not been shown to be registerable. A discussion of the kinds of evidence one might present is given in the January 2003 Cover Letter, dealing with Tibetan names. Note that second-hand contact (contact with a group of people who had contact with Europe) is not sufficient. In the case of India, we often look to the late-period Portuguese coastal possessions as evidence for contact. History books are generally necessary to argue for these points, as websites created by private individuals often include poorly sourced information and cannot be trusted.

The documentation didn't show that the examples used to justify the name Biya were found in period, or that biya was a period word. It was documented as a word in Manchu, which is derived from, but not the same as Jurchen [see Herbert Franke, "Notes on Some Jurchen Words in Chinese Orthography", in: Roy Andrew Miller, Karl Heinrich Menges, and Nelly Naumann, eds., Language and literature: Japanese and the other Altaic languages (http://books.google.com/books?id=3oGLez4d-ncC, pp. 51-65)]. The submitter may wish to know that the word is found in the Jurchen language as well as Manchu. The Divan of Gada'i (http://books.google.com/books?id=u1Q5fMqnWbEC, p. 35) implies that the word is found in Sino-Jurchen glossaries from the Ming Dynasty, and indicates that biya is based on a Chinese phonetic rendering of the Jurchen word for 'moon'. Thus, it appears to be a valid transcription and translation. The author cites a book by Gisaburo Kiyose, A study of the Jurchen language and script: Reconstruction and decipherment, which is in turn based on research on Jurchen manuscripts from c. 1500 [see John King Fairbank and Denis Crispin Twitchett, The Cambridge History of China, (Vol. 3, Vol. 6, p. 688; http://books.google.com/books?id=iN9Tdfdap5MC)]. Whether this word is also found in the earlier language, Old Jurchen, could not be determined. The submitter should be aware that most sources on the Jurchen language are in Chinese, so the romanizations are derived from modern standard Mandarin transcriptions; they may not reflect the original Jurchen pronunciations. A longer discussion on transcribing Jurchen into Chinese is found in Franke (op. cit.).

This resubmission presents an entirely Chinese name. Using the documentation provided by Lillia Eastern Crown in her return, Biya is a Chinese phonetic rendering of the Jurchen word for moon which can be dated to c. 1500. The pattern of naming women after things in nature can be found in "Period Chinese Names" by Yin Mei Li (http://www.ida.net/users/valerie_lee/Octofoil/ChineseNames/). Examples include:

Chao Yün - Morning Clouds

Chin Lien - Golden Lotus

Chin Luan - Golden Bells

Ching Lan - Beautiful Orchid

Hsiu Ying - Elegant Flower

In addition, a female character in the Chinese epic Hin P'ing Mei, written in the late 16th cen. is known as "Little Moon"; another character in the same story is known as "Moon Maiden" or "Moon Lady." (http://www.ida.net/users/valerie_lee/Octofoil/ChineseNames/)

Yüeh (Wade-Giles translation) or Yue (Hanyu Pinyin translation) is a Chinese family name. Yin Mei Li's article gives an example of a person bearing this family name dated to 1350 (http://www.ida.net/users/valerie_lee/Octofoil/ChineseNames/). There was a Chinese general named Yüeh Fei or Yue Fei who lived 1103-1142. "Yue Fei." Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. Encyclopædia Britannica Inc., 2012. Web. 31 Jul. 2012. (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/654628/Yue-Fei).

Her device was also returned on the April 2011 LoD for lack of a name submission to attach to it. The motif of "a roundel between an increscent and a decrescent" is a Step from Period Practice under Appendix G of SENA (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#AppendixG) but registerable as long as there are no other SFPPs in the armory.


[Bardsley] Bardsley, Charles. A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames.

Eleazar ha-Levi, "A Jewish Memory Book: Nuremburg, 1349" (KWHSS Proceedings 2004).


OSCAR counts 5 Names, 1 Name Change, 2 Heraldic Titles, 8 Devices, 6 Badges and 1 Badge Change. There are a total of 23 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos