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Outlands LoI dated 2012-03-31

From the Office of Rampart Herald

Baron Randal Carrick (Randall Jackson)

rampart@outlandsheralds.org



Unto the Sovereigns and members of the College of Arms of the Society, does Randal Carrick, Rampart Herald send his greetings. What follows is the March 2012 Letter of Intent for the Kingdom of the Outlands. I would like to thank the following heralds for providing commentary for this letter: Mistress Francesca de Pavia, Ray-de-Soleil Pursuivant, Master Louis-Philippe Mitouard, Catspaw Herald Extraordinary; THL Eric Morrison, Hawk's Hollow Pursuivant; Lady Leonor Ruiz de Lison; Lord Andrew von Otelingen; Lady Katelin de Irlande; Lady Khalidah bint Yayah, Castle Herald; Faelan O' Laghlan, Readstan Pursuivant; Ines Alfon, Blanch Tiger Herald; Lady Shoshanah Simkhah bas Ruven; Aryanhwy merch Catmael; Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada, Aldyrne Herald; Tostig Logiosophia, Eclipse Herald; Gunnvor silfraharr; Andreas von Meißen, Nautilus Herald; Alys Mackyntoich, Eastern Crown Herald; Modar Neznanich, (Interim) Gold Falcon Herald; Lady Pipa Sparkes; Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant; Lord Einarr Grimsson, Gold Falcon Herald emeritus; Ursula Georges, Green Staff Herald; and Gawain of Miskbridge, Green Anchor Herald.



It is my intent to register this March the following items from the Outlands College of Heralds:

This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

1: Caerthe, Barony of - Resub Order Name

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in January of 1973, via Laurel

Order of the Green Tree of Caerthe

Meaning most important.

Submitter's previous submission, Order of the Sapling of Caerthe, was returned on the June 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/06/09-06lar.html) stating:

This is returned for lack of documentation that it follows patterns of period order names. The only possible meta-pattern from the August 2005 Cover Letter that this order name could follow is the heraldic charge meta-pattern: "orders named for heraldic charges or for items that, while not found in period as heraldic charges, may be used as heraldic charges." While there are some very early registration of saplings in SCA armory, there have been none since Laurel ruled on the March 1994 Cover Letter that baby flora are not generally registerable. A sapling is a baby tree, and hence falls under this stricture, so this order name is not registerable under the heraldic charge meta-pattern.

Submitter's previous submission, Order of the Arbor of Caerthe, was returned on the September 2011 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-08-lop/1109-lor.html) stating:

RETURNED for lack of documentation of the order name construction. Submitter should consult Medieval Secular Order Names by Juliana de Luna (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/new/) and document each element of the name accordingly before re-submitting.

Naming practice per article, 'Medieval Secular Order Names' by Juliana de Luna, Siren Herald 2008-2009. Specific usage as "Color + Charge" [eg. Order of the Golden Tree from France (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/Fraternal_Knightly_Organizations.shtml)]. (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/index.shtml)

Submitter has made changes in accordance with the suggestions from September 2011's LoR.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

2: Conrad von Zollern - New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2002, via the Outlands

Per saltire Or and argent, a stag trippant contourny regardant within an orle vert

This submission is to be associated with Oshere Ceoluhtes suna

Submitter's primary name was registered on the March 2002 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/03/02-03lar.html) via the Outlands.

Submitter's alternate name was sent up to Laurel on the October 2011 LoI (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-09-lop/1110-loi.html).

Submitter's previous badge, (Fieldless) A lion rampant sable, was returned on the June 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2009-05-lop/0906-lor.html) stating:

RETURNED for multiple conflicts: Buchanan of that Ilk "Or, a lion rampant sable." (12/94, Laurel); Flanders. "Or, a lion rampant sable." (12/94, Laurel)

Submitter's previous badge, Per saltire Or and argent, a stag's head erased vert was returned on the October 2011 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-09-lop/1110-lor.html) stating:

RETURNED for conflict with Geoffrey Biedermann (Feb. 2000 via Ansteorra) "Argent, a stag's head erased vert". There is only 1 CD for the change to the field.

Submitter has cleared the stated conflict by altering the primary charge.

Submitter wishes to retain old badge(s).


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

3: Conrad von Zollern - New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2002, via the Outlands

Per chevron sable and argent, in pale a demi-sun issuant from the line of divison Or and an hourglass sable

This submission is to be associated with Justin Timme

Submitter's primary name was registered on the March 2002 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/03/02-03lar.html) via the Outlands. Submitter's alternate name was registered on the October 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/10/09-10lar.html) via the Outlands.

Previous Badge, Per chevron sable and argent, in pale a demi-sun issuant from the line of division Or, and an hourglass sable, was returned on the Oct. 2011 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-09-lop/1110-lor.html) stating:

Commenters raised questions about the depiction of the hourglass, noting that it appears to be tipped forward, giving it somewhat of a trian aspect. From the September 2010 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/09/10-09lar.html) "This device is returned because the hourglass is depicted in trian aspect. Having a three-dimensional appearance has long been grounds for return. While certain charges (wedges of cheese, dice, etc.) require trian aspect to be recognizable, the hourglass is not among them."

Submitter has cleared the stated conflict by 'flattening' the hourglass image.

Submitter wishes to retain old badge(s).

Correction (2012-Apr-21 22:04:55): Not sure why this now says 'New Badge' as it is a resubmission.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

4: Eleanor of Penn Forest - New Name & New Device

Per pale wavy purpure and argent, a skull and a staff of Asclepius contourny counterchanged

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for 13th-15th Century English.
Meaning (The submitter is from Pennsylvania and is trying to mimic this association) most important.

[Eleanor] - Feminine Given Name in A Dictionary of English Surnames by Talan Gwyneck (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/reaneyAG.html)

[Penn Forest] - No documentation provided but submitter states '[there are] many examples of registered names that are similar [in construction], i.e. Kynan of Wyre Forest.'

While submitter provides no valid documentation,

Aryanhwy merch Catmael at 2012-02-19 02:34:18

On the other hand, Watts has s.n. Braithwaite <Braithwait in Inglewod forest> 1350; s.n. Bere, <Foresta de Ber'> 1237; s.n. Bowland, <foresta de Bouland> 1343, 1423, <the forest of Bolland> 1583; s.n. Brewood, <foresta de Brewuda> 1187. So there are some examples.

Because submitter requests authenticity, we are submitting the name as-is, so that Laurel can determine if the Watts examples can justify Penn Forest, or if the name needs to be changed to something along the lines of "Pennwode".


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

5: Ellinor Rose Sanbourne - New Name

No changes.
Spelling ('Ellinor') most important.

[Double given names] - Double given names are documented as having been used in late period England in Africa filia Kennocii (Sharon L. Krossa)'s article titled "Concerning Double Given Names Before 1600." (http://medievalscotland.org/problem/practices/middle)

[Ellinor] - English given name documented in Aryanhwy merh Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman)'s article titled "English Given Names from16th and Early 17th C Marriage Records: Ellinor" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/parishes/ellinor.html)

[Rose] - English given name documented in Talan Gwynek, Fause Losenge Herald Extraordinary (Brian M. Scott)'s article titled "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames ~ Rose" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Rose)

[Sanbourne] - The IGI extracted records show one "Agnes Sanbourne" married on 28 April, > 1605, at St. Botolph, Aldgate in London (Batch M000803). The IGI extracted records are part of the LDS databases. JPG image of record is attached.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

6: Guy Herbert of Roteland - New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 11th-12th Century English.
Culture (11th-12th Century English) most important.

[Guy] - Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names by Elizabeth G. Withycombe, pg. 143

'Masculine Given Names Found in the 1296 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Rutland' by Karen Larsdatter (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/Rutland/given-masc-alpha.htm)

also, "English Names found in Brass Enscriptions" by Julian Goodwyn (Janell K. Lovelace) cites a single dated instance of this spelling from 1435 in Suffolk on the page http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/brasses/men.html

[Herbert] - Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names by Elizabeth G. Withycombe, pg. 150

[Rutland]'Masculine Given Names Found in the 1296 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Rutland' by Karen Larsdatter (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/Rutland/given-masc-alpha.htm)

Originally submitted as Guy Herbert of Rutland, the name was changed at Kingdom to acommodate submitter's request for authenticity, based on the following comment:

Watts p. 514 s.n. Rutland Water has <Roteland> dated to the 12th cen. and to 1138, 1086. Watts does not list a spelling with a 'u' until at least the 14th cen


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

7: Hrefna Cyrredsdottir - New Name & New Device

Quarterly sable and argent, a heart counterchanged

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for 12th-13th Century Norse (Viking).

[Hrefna] - 'Old Norse Women's Names' from Viking Answer Lady Webpage (http://vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#h)

[Cyrredsdottir] - No documentation provided but the submitter writes 'Cyrred is my father even though he's Welsh. If it can't be "Cyrredsdorrir", please change to "Torinsdottir".'

Several options were suggested to meet submitter's authenticity request, all involving switching the patronymic from Cyrred to Torin. We have elected to send the name up as-is, and note that Cyrred of Ashwood (reg. 9/1992 via the Outlands) is submitter's biological father, and submitter should thus be entitled to grandfather the use of the name, even if it is not registerable currently.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

8: Lijsbet vande Visschereye - New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 2006, via the Outlands

(Fieldless) a lion erminois

Submitter's previous badge, (Fieldless), a lion rampant Or ermine azure langued and armed azure, was returned on the Janurary 2006 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2005-12-lop/0601-lor.html) stating:

Commenters indicate that the ermine spots are too small to allow their tincture to be identifiable. They tend to look sable in the images and paperwork. This is a violation of RfS VIII.3 which states "Elements must be used in a design so as to preserve their individual identifiability" and further explains "Identifiable elements may be rendered unidentifiable by significant reduction in size…" In this case it is effectively impossible to determine the tincture of the spots. Badge returned for rework.

The reason for the original return was that the ermine spots were not identifiably azure. Changing the tincture to erminois removes this issue. We will leave it to Wreath to determine if the spots are still too small for registration.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

9: Máel Mide ingen Domhnaill - New Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Outlands LoI of November 28, 2011 as submitted.

Per bend vert and sable, a bend between a dragonfly bendwise sinister and a deer hoofprint bendwise argent

Submitter's name was sent up to Laurel on the November 2011 LoI (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-10-lop/1111-loi.html).

Submitter's previous device, Quarterly vert and sable, a dragonfly and a deer hoof print argent, was returned on the November 2011 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-10-lop/1111-lor.html) stating:

This device is Returned for appearance of Marshalling per RfS XI.3.a: "a. Such fields may be used with identical charges over the entire field, or with complex lines of partition or charges overall that were not used for marshalling in period heraldry." (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/rfs.html#11.3) This device does not meet that requirement.

Submitter changes the field division to clear the issue.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

10: Pipa de Blakemere - Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2011, via the Outlands

Per bend argent and sable, a natural panther rampant sable and a cross fleury argent, within a bordure embattled per bend purpure and argent

Submitter's name was registered on the November 2011 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/11/11-11lar.html) via the Outlands.

Submitter's previous device, Per bend argent and sable, an ounce rampant sable incensed argent and a cross flory argent, a bordure embattled per bend purpure and argent, was returned on the November 2011 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/11/11-11lar.html) stating:

This device is returned for a redraw, for violating section VII.7.a of the Rules for Submissions which requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." Blazoned on the Letter of Intent as a panther, this is neither an English-style panther, which has spots, nor a Continental panther, which is typically horned and has eagle's forefeet. A panther's incensing would also issue from both the mouth and ears, instead of just the mouth as depicted here. We have therefore reblazoned it as an ounce, which is a mane-less lion. However, the incensed flames here are argent on an argent field, giving no contrast at all. While in some cases small details of a charge may have poor or no contrast with the field, the overall charge must still be identifiable, and in this case we feel a return for a redraw is best.

The device was redrawn and reblazoned with a natural panther.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

11: Quintin d'Acre - New Name & New Device

Azure, a crab within a bordure argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

[Quintin] - 'An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris' by Scott Catledge (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/paris.html#Q)

[d'Acre] - 'An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris' by Scott Catledge (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/paris.html#jewish)


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

12: Seamus O Mourane - New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Spelling (spelling of given name, Seamus) most important.

Submitter's previous name, Seamus O'Mourne, was returned on the September 2010 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2010-08-lop/1009-lor.html) stating:

RETURNED for lack of documentation of the surname. MacLysaght is considered among the "Name Sources to Avoid" in the College of Arms Administrative Handbook (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/admin.html#APPENDIXF). The documentation shows "Mourne" to be the name of a mountain, while the article "O'" is almost exclusively used in conjunction with family names. Commenters noted that "O Mourane" would be an acceptably documentable name (http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/Woulfe/)." Submitter cleared the issue by using the suggestion given in the September 2010 LoR.

[Seamus] - listed in <OC&M>, p. 163. 

[O Mourane] - <Woulfe>, p. 618.

For additional documentation for this name, Alys Mackyntoich (Eastern Crown designate) at 2012-02-12 18:01:06 noted:

<O Mourane> is an italicized form found in Woulfe p. 618 s.n. Ó Moghráin. That it is an italicized form indicates that it's 16th/17th cen. Anglicized Irish.

<Seamus> is an Early Modern Irish Gaelic masculine given name found in "Index of Given Names in Irish Annals" by Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Seamus.shtml) with Annals dates of 1398, 1405, 1448, 1463, 1467, 1484, 1486, 1502, 1511, 1519, 1567, 1581, 1608

Gaelic + Anglicized Irish is a Step from Period Practice.


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

13: Shoshanah Simkhah bas Ruven - New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in December of 2010, via the Outlands

Per fess vert and argent, a loaf of bread bendwise sinisterOr and a cauldron sable


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

14: Vvillequin d' Maquereau - New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Culture (13th Century France) most important.

[Vvillequin] - 'An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris' by Scott Catledge (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/paris.html#V)

[Maquereau] - 'French Names from Two Thirteenth Century Chronicles' by Josh Mittleman (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/crusades/)

Correction (2012-Apr-18 16:04:46): Apologies - This submission was supposed to be pended at Kingdom for a month, but somehow made it onto this letter. Please disregard. (there would have been a _lot_ more documentation if I had intended to send this up)


This item was on the 06-2012 LoAR

15: Yasamin al-Hadiyya - New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2010, via Drachenwald

Purpure, a senmurv within eight octofoils in annulo Or

Submitter's previous device, Purpure, a senmurv within eight octofoils in annulo Or, was returned on the November 2011 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2011-10-lop/1111-lor.html) stating:

Returned for conflict with Bahram the Resplendent (2/83, An Tir): Sable, a senmurv within an annulet of roundels Or. There is one CD for the change of color of the field, but there is no visual difference for roundels versus the octofoils as drawn.

The octofoils were redrawn to give more of a visual difference from roundels.


Respectfully submitted,

Baron Randal Carrick, Rampart Herald

Kingdom of the Outlands

rampart@outlandsheralds.org


OSCAR counts 7 New Names, 6 New Devices and 3 New Badges. These 16 items are chargeable, Laurel should receive $48 for them. OSCAR counts 1 Resub Order Name and 1 Resub Device. These 2 items are not chargeable. There are a total of 18 items submitted on this letter.

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