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Ansteorra Kingdom ILoI dated 2018-06-10

Good day. There are a lot of submissions for a non-war month!

1: Áine ingen Oitir -New Name & New Device

Per saltire sable and azure, in pale two otters statant and in fess two triskelions of spirals argent

Áine - Middle Irish Gaelic (c900-c1200)

https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aine.shtml?fref=gc

Oitir - ccc(1127-1134) Section 53/N/do ansat Lochlannaig in baile fein ann.i. Lulach & Amhlaibh & Lagmann & Turcaill & Gulla Ciarain mac Henruc un t-senrigh & Oitir

https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/annalIndex/masculine/Torcailli.shtml?fref=gc

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-04 15:40:02
Link to surname has a typo. Proper link: https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Torcaill.shtml

Naming pattern follows Appendix A for Old/Middle Gaelic.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 00:21:56
I do not think there are any conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 14:58:40
Docs seem to check out.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:22:06
There's a Step from Period Practice for the triskelion of spirals, but that appears to be the only one.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 14:58:58
No conflicts found.


2: Alisoun de Lisle -New Name

Alisoun - "Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1H-D29

de Lisle - http://heraldry.sca.prg/names/french/paris1423surnames.html

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 04:59:00
Alisoun - Info for submitted doc, Alisoun Caskie, christened 23 Apr 1615, KELSO, ROXBURGH, SCOTLAND, Batch # C11793-2, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1H-D29. Accessed 6/9/2018.
An earlier FamilySearch name Alisoun Andersoun, christened 04 Jul 1587, ANSTRUTHER WESTER, FIFE, SCOTLAND, Batch # C11403-2. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTNH-Y91. Accessed 6/9/2018

de Lisle - Fleshing out the docs, French Surnames from Paris, 1421, 1423 & 1438 by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Friedemann) indeed shows de Lisle dated to1423. The url is http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 14:59:21
Docs check out.


3: Barony of Northkeep -New Heraldic Title

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Sable Tower Persuivant

Title of pattern "Tincture + Charge"

Use of sable rather than black allowed because of Northkeep being a sub-unit of Ansteorra

Heraldic Title Comments:

Thomas de Groet at 2018-06-04 05:31:16
Please correct spelling: "Sable Tower Pursuivant"

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:14:34
Did you have more documentation for this, like the citation for the naming convention? We'll need it to send up, so if you want to help me be lazy, that'd be awesome. :)

Thomas de Groet at 2018-06-04 20:41:16
http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitles/heraldic_titles_by_type.shtml

Linked from SENA Appendix E to Juliana de Luna's "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance."

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-04 15:49:19
April 2012 cover letter included a ruling allowing heraldic colors to be used in order names and heraldic titles. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/04/12-04cl.html

No conflicts found.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-06-04 21:10:00
Documentation for the Sable and Tower Sable: The April 2012 Cover Letter states: "[W]e are hereby allowing the use of heraldic color terms in order names as well as the everyday terms." Sable is the heraldic color name for black.

Tower: The Oxford English Dictionary s.v. tower, n.1. states the modern spelling of the word was used from the fifteenth century onward.

I find no conflicts.

The group can't use black tower pursuivant because it is registered to the East. I find no conflicts

Eirik Halfdanarson (Sable Roundel) at 2018-06-09 09:45:40
Just to be clear, we do not do conflict checking by translation so this does not conflict with

Black Tower This heraldic title was registered to East, Kingdom of the in May of 1981 (via Laurel)


4: Brúnn Dagr -New Name & New Device

Argent, a wolf's head caressed sable and in chief three mullets of eight interlocking mascles vert

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.
Spelling most important.

Brúnn - given name found in Geirr Bassi pg 9

Dagr - by name found in Geirr Bassi pg 9

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-05 18:40:30
To the best of my searching ability, I find no conflicts.

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:35:40
Oy. I was unable to identify the charges in chief. They also appear to be an undocumented arrangement of 24 charges.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 15:06:09
The mullets of eight interlocking mascles appear to be a SFPP http://mistholme.com/dictionary/mullet/

But I also agree, they are not very identifiable.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:24:13
Yep, they're neither drawn nor coloured correctly.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-05 18:16:42
The line drawings appear to be messy photocopies of Mistholme's model, so that adding vert cannot work. I think we'll need to see them done correctly before we know whether they're identifiable at this size.

Juetta Copin at 2018-06-10 09:05:12
I thought they were flowers.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:25:59
As much as I love 'caressed', let's try:

Argent, a wolf's head cabossed sable and in chief three mullets of eight interlocking mascles vert.

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:32:39
I have issues as well with the identifiability of the charges in chief and also if they are interlocking mascles, should there not be two colors. And if this is true, do they not violate metal on metal (argent field and argent mascles)?

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:16:09
They do not need to be two colors, there are several examples of this being registered as one color.

Additionally, if it did need to be of alternating color/metal, they'd end up being neutral for contrast.

Eirik Halfdanarson (Sable Roundel) at 2018-06-09 09:49:02
I agree with the identfiablity issues of the mullets.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:00:42
No conflicts found. I too find the secondary charges drawn and colored so badly that they are unrecognizable.


5: Calvin Tittle -New Device

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Per pall argent, vert and azure fangs issuant from sinister and a tiger rampant argent

Name associated with this device was submitted in May 2018 letter

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:29:31
Per pall argent, vert, and azure, three wolves' teeth issuant from dexter and a natural tiger rampant argent.

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:34:54
There could be some identifiability issues with the tiger as is, unless the stripes are colored in some form.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-05 18:41:11
They're sable to my eye.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-07 16:11:58
How funny. They do read sable on screen, but when I click the large picture, they're just lines and read as such on the color corrected version. I think the stripes should be more pronounced, but is that artist's note or a reason for redraw? I'm leaning towards redraw.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 20:24:42
Now I've been primed by seeing the large version, at least the ones on the back read as outlines in the thumbnail too for me. I urge recoloring.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-05 18:45:36
There is a step from period practice for the use of a natural tiger, but there appears to be no such step involving these wolves' teeth.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:01:29
Agree with Iago's blazon, save that the beast is distinguished from the heraldic monster simply by spelling the former with an "i", while the latter is spelled with a "y". No conflicts found.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-10 16:24:16
Though that might be true in theory it definitely is not in practice. We always preface 'tiger' with either 'natural' or 'Bengal' in our recent blazons.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:03:17
We've made the distinction that way eight times by my count, versus some hundred using natural (mostly), Bengal, Siberian, Manchurian, sabre-toothed, white, etc. And those few have been reduced in number by two reblazons. Isabel d'Auron's device, when registered in May 1997, was Gules, a tiger rampant Or marked sable maintaining in its dexter forepaw a trumpet palewise, on a chief Or three fleurs-de-lys azure and was reblazoned in Feb 2009 as Gules, a natural tiger rampant Or marked sable maintaining a straight trumpet, on a chief Or three fleurs-de-lys azure. The other is Tatiana Nikonovna Besprozvannyja's, which ended up as a badge with a natural tiger passant reguardant argent striped sable.

The survivors are a tiger's jambe, a tiger's skull, a tiger's pawprint (is that one different from a tyger's?), an Amur tiger's head with a Linnaean subspecies designation, a winged sea-tiger with an O&A note warning that it's "a winged Bengal sea-tiger, not a sea-tyger", and Robert Scheller der Lasterhaft's device (Mar 1981), Gules, a tiger rampant argent, striped sable, which has those stripes for an extra clue.

If we modify Maister Iago's blazon at all, it should be to

Per pall argent, vert, and azure, three wolves' teeth issuant from dexter and a natural tiger rampant argent striped sable

assuming the stripes get colored in.


6: Catarine Gunne -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Caitrin O'Maughan(11/1993), Caitrina inghean Eoin (4/2016), Caitriona Jenne (2/1992), Caterina Gioacchini (4/1997), Catrina Gunn (9/1998), Catriona McNee (9/1992)

Per chevron argent and azure, two thistles proper and a lion Or

Caterine - 1360 [Hill, 358] http://heraldry.sca.org/names/scottishfem.html

Gunne - Gunson 1278 http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyAG.html

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-04 16:04:07
"Gunne" as presented in the given documentation appears to be a given name. The submitter can easily get "Gunn" as a surname though. However I am worried about "Catrina Gunn" as a conflict. If the "a" following the "t" in the submitted name is pronounced, it should be fine, though.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 14:48:29
As the second paragraph of http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C states, "Names may be different in sound under one standard and appearance under another standard." I believe that is required here.

You note, Sable Crane, and I agree, that for the submitted <Catarine Gunne> against the registered <Catrina Gunn> (9/1998), even if for modern speakers the final letters of the given names (A and E) may be pronounced identically as schwa, /ə/; and even supposing the final E in the submitted byname is silent; the medial A in the submission makes a difference in sound between the two under PN.3.C.2, "Substantial Change to One Syllable": "The addition or removal of a syllable makes two names substantially different in sound." Even though the syllable is spelled with a single character.

But that element by itself does not qualify for spelling under the same rule, since "the change in spelling (including addition or removal of letters) must affect at least two letters in that syllable to be substantial."

For spelling, aka appearance, we have instead to invoke PN.3.C.1, "Changes to Two Syllables", citing both the added A in the given name and the added E in the byname. (They are not adjacent, so two letters are sufficient.)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 15:00:33
You're right about the R&W citation being useless for the surname, Sable Crane. Submitter should instead cite

Gunne: Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, "An Index to the 1332 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Lincolnshire, England:Sorted by Byname:(G)", https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/LincLSR/BynG.html, Adam <Gunne>, William <Gunne>.
The very end of Appendix H at the very end of our Admin Handbook, http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html, says what's in the St. Gabriel Archive is no-photocopy, but my link above isn't under that directory. Does it count anyway, or do we need to attach a screen grab or two?

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-07 16:07:39
Thanks for sorting this out, Gerard.

Probably need a screen grab then. But here's the Medieval Scotland link for good measure: http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/LincLSR/BynG.shtml

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-10 20:41:35
From Laurel: Updates to Appendix H of the Administrative Handbook (1/2018 Cover Letter) says that "Articles found at http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/ (articles by Mistress Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada)" don't need photocopies as long as the URL is given. "An Index to the 1332 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Lincolnshire, England:Sorted by Byname:(G)" shows Adam and William Gunne. http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/LincLSR/BynG.shtml

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 14:23:41
There's a typo in the given name line of headmatter. The cited source, Talan Gwynek, "A List of Feminine Personal Names Found in Scottish Records" supports the submitted form, <Catarine>, which is what should be shown (not <Caterine>)--and it wouldn't hurt to include the article's author and title.

[Ignore the following; see my surname comment above.] And while I'm at it, the source for the byname should also be shown, as simply R&W.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 15:14:03
I believe that there are no other potential conflicts for <Catarine Gunne>.

Technical: I checked for ^[KV]at combined with bynames beginning G[aeiouwy] and/or ending [aeiouwy]+n+e $ and [aeiouwy]+n+ $ to catch what I think are all the possibilities.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:02:14
The header spells the given name "Catarine", while the text spells it 'Caterine". Which one does the client want? Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Steve of Tirnewydd at 2018-06-11 18:07:00
No conflicts found


7: Emma O'Ruairc -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound (O'Rourke / O'Ruairc) most important.

Emma - http://www.gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/.cgi?Emma

O'Ruairc - https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/woulfe/sortedbygaelicrout_r.shtml

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-04 16:14:16
Fixed link for given name: https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Emma

Fixed link for surname: https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/Woulfe/SortedByGaelicRoot_R.shtml

Docs check out. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 15:27:16
I find no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:04:20
Docs check out except that the surname is spelled Ó Ruairc. Thanks to Sable Crane for the url corrections.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:19:59
That's in the Header Form column. The document's form in the left-hand column is without the accent, <O Ruairc>. But the "Possible Normalization" section says that "other examples from the Patent Rolls of James I found in Ewen show the formats Mc[Root] and O'[Root]."

So it looks like the version as submitted is acceptable.


8: Esteban de Cádiz -New Name

Esteban - http://heraldry.sca.org/names/spanish/male-given-alpha.html

de Cádiz - Location in Spain

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2018-05-23/20-59-59_Esteban_de_Cadiz_name_doc_1.jpg

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 09:38:26
Esteban - dated to 1560, 1574 in the given name documentation, 16th Century Spanish Names, Masculine given names, sorted alphabetically by Elsbeth Anne Roth (Kathy Van Stone) http://heraldry.sca.org/names/spanish/fem-given-alpha.html

de Cadiz - 9: Dionisio Sebastian de Cadiz - New Name comments from Gleann Abhann LoI - 2014-06-30. In comments by Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2014-07-06 15:17:49 mentions "1595 <Don Rodrigo Ponce de Leõ Marques de Cadiz>, <San Sebastian>, Pedro de Medina. Primera y Segunda Parte de las Grandezas y Cosas Notables de España. Juan Gracian. 1595. pp. 38, 101, 108, 156. http://books.google.com/books?id=f5qtYd2_1JUC&pg=RA3-PA108-IA5". Cadiz is all throughout the book. See image of the name Gunnvor gave.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 15:50:32
For a few instances with the accent on the A of <Cádiz>, as submitted, we can use Alberto Larco Herrera, Anales de Cabildo : Ciudad de Trujillo*, 1598, https://books.google.com/books?id=UZpQAAAAYAAJ. Image below is from p. 51.
------------------------------
* Author and title from enlarging Google's title page as confirmed by https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011818241.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:23:34
I find no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:05:01
Looks good.


9: Ferdinand de Cádiz -New Name

Ferdinand - "The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" pg 117 by E,G, Withycombe. "The Oxford Dictonary of Saints" pg 176 by David Hugh Farmer

de Cádiz - location in Spain

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 09:41:10
Ferdinand - I don't have Withycombe.
SENA, Appendix C: Regional Naming Groups and Their Mixes, English/Welsh, 1100-1600 allows only Dutch, French, Gaelic. Iberian, 1100-1600 allows Arabic,French, Italian.

de Cadiz - 9: Dionisio Sebastian de Cadiz - New Name comments from Gleann Abhann LoI - 2014-06-30. In comments by Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2014-07-06 15:17:49 mentions "1595 <Don Rodrigo Ponce de Leõ Marques de Cadiz>, <San Sebastian>, Pedro de Medina. Primera y Segunda Parte de las Grandezas y Cosas Notables de España. Juan Gracian. 1595. pp. 38, 101, 108, 156. http://books.google.com/books?id=f5qtYd2_1JUC&pg=RA3-PA108-IA5". Cadiz is all throughout the book. See image of the name Gunnvor gave.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 15:51:23
For a few instances with the accent on the A of <Cádiz>, as submitted, we can use Alberto Larco Herrera, Anales de Cabildo : Ciudad de Trujillo*, 1598, https://books.google.com/books?id=UZpQAAAAYAAJ. Image below is from p. 51.
------------------------------
* Author and title from enlarging Google's title page as confirmed by https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011818241.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:07:12
The Spanish equivalent of English <Ferdinand> is <Fernando>, <Hernando>, <Fernan>, or <Hernan> (modernly <Fernán> and <Hernán>, which I suppose has been the pronunciation all along). Let's go with the first as the least change. There are 4 pages of article choices if we enter fernando in the last field at http://morsulus.org. So maybe

Fernando: S.L. Uckelman. "Ferdinand". In S.L. Uckelman, ed., The Dictionary of Medieval Names from European Sources, Edition 2017, no. 1. http://dmnes.org/2017/1/name/Ferdinand, under Spain, Spanish: 1376 Fernando, 1567 Fernando.
I'm not seeing this as no-photocopy, though.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 21:52:24
It's no photocopy per http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/01/18-01cl.html#2, "From Laurel: Updates to Appendix H of the Administrative Handbook", if the access date is stated. So add "accessed 6/10/18".

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:24:47
I find no conflicts for <Fernando de Cádiz>--which is not what's submitted, but I think that it or some other all-Spanish name should be submitted.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:05:41
The client doesn't specify what language(s) he wants. I'm inclined to go with Gerard's suggestion for making it all-Spanish, if that's OK with the client.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:24:37
I should have said explicitly that SENA Appendix C doesn't let Spanish combine with English. And the only period <Ferdinand>s that FamilySearch finds in Spain are from the Find A Grave Index.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:28:34
Of course <Ferdinand of Cadiz> is a possibility; but I'm assuming submitter is with <Esteban> and <Isabel> elsewhere in this LoI.


10: Gabriel of Maccuswell -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in March of 2001, via the East.

(Fieldless) A pile argent, three pellets in pale

Badge Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:36:16
This isn't actually a pile. This is just a triangle throughout. Unfortunately, you can't really have something throughout on a fieldless badge. It's also worth noting that you can't have a non-couped pile on a fieldless badge...

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:49:32
If those alternatives are closed to us, we might blazon

(Fieldless) On a triangle inverted argent three pellets in pale

But I'm finding an early precedent, http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1993/03/lar.html s.n. Dragonsspine, Barony of. (fieldless) On a triangle inverted Or, a dragon's head cabossed purpure, that declares

If a charge can be considered a medium for heraldic display, it may not bear a tertiary in a fieldless badge: such a design is interpretable as a display of arms, with the tertiary as a primary. ... In this case, the triangle inverted must be considered such a medium, comparable to the escutcheon, lozenge, or roundel. It may be considered either an early-style shield (Neubecker's Heraldry: Sources, Symbols and Meanings, p.76), or a lance-pennon.
This submission is therefore returnable, the same as a roundel would be. Moreover, treated as a triangular shield displaying Argent, three pellets in pale the submission conflicts with Gunnar Sigurdsson's device (Jul 2007), Argent, in pale three golpes, with only a DC for the tincture difference.

(Tangent: Is the difference between Argent, three pellets in pale and Angela Calici's device (Jun 2015), Argent, in pale three suns sable, a full SC, as I think?)

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:37:14
I am looking at this and I see the middle of a clowns outfit, especially in the last picture.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:24:49
I disagree. I see a triangle and 3 pellets. if it were on a gules field and torteau, perhaps closer visually, but eh. Too much of a stretch.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:34:15
Pierrot sometimes wears three big black pompoms in pale, especially modernly.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:25:19
The last picture is only to check colors (they keep telling me).

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:06:20
This is not a pile. Perhaps it could be blazoned as chausse, but don't think that will work on a fieldless badge.


11: Gemma Long Stride Cadwyn -New Name & New Device

Gules, a cross sable fimbriated and overall a horse's head argent marked sable

Gemma - The name occurs once in an Aussie Roll for 1218 pg 127, "The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" by E.G. Withycombe

Long Stride - SCA member Walter Thomas Longstride is father

Cadwyn - Christian Cadwyn: "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X

*** signed letter from her father granting permission to use name ***

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-04 16:20:40
The registered surname for her father is "Long Stride." It was registered as a constructed double surname. "Long Stride Cadwyn" would make this a triple surname.

"Gemma Cadwyn" and "Gemma Long Stride" both would work and appear free from conflict.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-06-05 17:29:47
Agreed. Use of the Grandfather Clause does not give one a "free pass" on (new) style problems.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-06-04 21:19:06
Please make sure the submitter uses this letter
Letter Documenting Legal Relationship for the Existing Registration Allowance

I, [Legal name], known in the SCA as [Society name], do attest that [Legal name of submitter], known in the SCA as [Society name of submitter], is my legal [SELECT ONE: father / mother / wife / husband / son / daughter / brother / sister]. I understand that this letter cannot be withdrawn once [Legal name of submitter]'s name or armory is registered.

[Date] [Signature of [Legal name]]

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-09 12:50:46
Assuming it's needed.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 04:28:35
Cadwyn - From the supplied url Christian Cadwyn, christened 20 Mar 1580, CREDITON, DEVON, ENGLAND, Batch # C05074-1. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X. Accessed 6/9/2018

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:07:00
Others have already said what I would have about the three surnames.

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:38:29
The horse seems to be barely overall.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 17:03:48
Mentally dividing the emblazon into quarters (with the origin being the center point of the cross), I'm getting at most 50% on the field for the top two quarters, but significantly less for the bottom two. Which does not add up to "a significant portion on the field".

In the just-issued LoAR, http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/04/18-04lar.html#35, Vilhjálmr Þursasprengir, the proposed Gules, a pile sable fimbriated argent and overall a badger rampant Or marked sable, image below from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=82615, was returned as barely overall, and the discussion noted that "there is no more space for the badger to grow; it is right up against the edge of the shield. The badger is so large that it ends up obscuring the pile, hindering identifiability, which is also grounds for return."

However, if this cross's arms were narrowed to perhaps half their current width, I believe it would still be identifiable, and the head would then not be barely overall. We should urge submitter to try it.

1: Image 1

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:32:55
The sable 'markings' here appear to just be shading, so shouldn't be blazoned.

Gules, a cross sable fimbriated and overall a horse's head argent.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:26:45
I agree. The shading is a little heavy-handed, but doesn't need to be blazoned as markings.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 16:51:44
I think we need to mention the more-or-less smooth line at the neck:

Gules, a cross sable fimbriated and overall a horse's head couped argent

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 17:08:41
Another problem.

I believe the submission's fimbriation is so narrow that it will be returned, as was the case for the images below, all with fimbriation not much if at all narrower than here. They were respectively for:

Apolonia Zawadzka, from http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=70908. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/02/17-02lar.html#204 declared, "As the fimbriation is so thin that it looks like a lighter outline line, we have the appearance of a gules fess on a vert field."

Ewander Maclachlan, https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=6392. On http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/08/08-08lar.html, "The 'fimbriation' in this device is too thin to be considered such."

Lucrezia Colze, https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=52609. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/07/15-07lar.html#62, "the fimbriation is too thin and can be easily interpreted as a relatively thick drawing line, introducing a metal on metal issue."

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 17:10:38
There is a step from period practice for the use of a fimbriated ordinary with an overall charge, but that appears to be the only one here.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-07 15:49:57
I found no conflicts.

As such, it seems that we should tell the submitter to redraw with a more narrow cross and wider fimbriation for submission. Then all issues are resolved (provided my search was accurate). Is that correct?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 20:15:59
I believe so. (You might call the SFPP "an issue", but it doesn't affect registration, just incurs an obligatory note from Laurel.)

What say you all?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 20:17:29
Umm, unless that slightly wavy "couped" line is going to cause a problem? Making it evenly curved would be an excellent idea.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:07:59
Don't see how one can call the head barely overall; it almost completely covers the cross. Agree that the fimbriation is too narrow, but it's probably registerable. Also agree that the overgenerous shading could be throttled back a bit. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:39:13
Under our rules, how much of the cross it covers is irrelevant (except if it impairs identifiability). The criterion under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixID is that "An overall charge must have a significant portion on the field"--in this case, how much it covers that isn't the cross.


12: Gouen atte Fyrthe -New Name & New Device

Ermine chevron garb Or, two battle axe Or azure field

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for 14th century.
Language most important.
Spelling most important.

Gouen - Yorkshire subsidy rolls 1379

atte Fyrthe - Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames" revised edition pg 169

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2018-05-30/20-27-35_Gouen_atte_Fyrthe_name_doc_1.jpg

Name Comments:

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 15:07:10
This (and device) appear to be a duplication from the previous ILOI) https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=5154#7

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 08:10:06
"Yorkshire Given Names from 1379" by Talan Gwynek. Gouen is found once. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/yorkshire.html

What is said about the name: date? I didn't find `atte Fyrthe' in my copy of 3rd ed. of R&W, p. 169, s.n. Firth, et al. There are several "atte" names: Robert atte Verthe 1205, Nicholas atte Ferthe 1296, Nicholas atte Frithe 1275, Thomas atte Vrythe 1333, Richard atte Frethe 1377, John atte Frizte 1327, Robert atte Ferghe 1327, John atte Ferkche 1332.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 18:07:11
We need to say

atte Fyrthe - R&W s.n. Firth, etc., list both firthe and ferthe as variants of the noun before citing surnames Robert atte Ferthe 1295 and Nicholas atte Verthe 1296 as examples. That seems to make atte Firthe plausible, and "the <i/y> switch is standard in Middle English" (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/01/09-01lar.html s.n. Richard Attekirck the Rabbit).
Not explicitly making the argument is a likely route to "the cited documentation does not support ..."

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:08:36
Given name doc checks out. No longer have R&W to check on the surname.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 17:45:53
See above.

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:38:52
Unfortunately, the chevron here appears to be unbalanced and too low.

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:39:41
I agree with Sea Stag regarding the chevron. Also, the ermine "spots" are not completely identifiable as drawn

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 16:45:12
After all the discussion at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=5154#7, a new point!

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:27:15
As stated above, this is a duplication of an item on the May letter.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:09:31
The colored and the b&w should be identical in outline. These obviously are not. The chevron should be moved up to divide the field into roughly equal halves. We don't register bleu celeste, so this should be tinctured azure as in the OSCAR version. Agree that the ermine spots are too small to be identifiable, and they seem to be drawn upside down. Most of these issues were brought up on the previous submission.


13: Helena Clare von Sigen -New Name & New Device

Bendy argent and vert, a pine tree and in dexter chief a mullet sable

Helena - Helena 5 http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/nurnberg1497.html

Clare - Clare 1379 http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyAG.html

von Sigen - von Signen https://www.ellipsis.cx/~iliana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-10 05:09:03
A German example of Clare, 1385, 1387, is found in "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia by Talan Gwynek", Women's Names. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/bahlow_v.htm

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:34:27
Those stripes seem to me to vary quite significantly in width.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:29:02
I think the tree needs to be significantly bigger and higher and the mullet slightly smaller.

I also agree on the shape width issues.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-06-05 17:36:22
FRom SENA, Appendix J:

Designs with One or Two Charge Groups On the Field that We Don't Allow (barring evidence that they were used in period):

A design with charges only "in sinister chief and in central base" and variants (like "in chief and dexter base")
While this isn't blazoned with the tree in base, it certainly is emblazoned that way. I'm afraid this should therefore be returned.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-06 17:19:16
You're right. The emblazon needs to match the blazon, with the tree at most slightly below the vertical center of the shield.

And I too see the uneven widths of the white stripes as a problem, though perhaps worth only an artist's note.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:10:13
The pine tree is couped. If it were moved up a bit and the size of the mullet were reduced, this should work. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 18:16:59
Concur. So, when adjusted (if that element's not changed):

Bendy argent and vert, a pine tree couped and in dexter chief a mullet sable


14: Helena Clare von Sigen -New Alternate Name

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Elina Ulfsdottir

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

Elina, Eilina - Christian, Helen. This name appears in Landamabok for Elina, daughter of King Burislav in Chaper 63 GB pp9

http://www.vikinganswerlady,.com/onwomennames.shtml

Ulfr - Found in Old Danish as Ulf (found as byname). Occurs in Old Swedish as Olf, Ulf, and as the byname Ulv. Found in OW Norse in the form of Ulfr, both as a personal name and a byname from OW Norse Ulfr, "wolf" GB p 15 sn. Ulfr becomes Ulfs, and with the addition of patronymic marker, in the byname is Ulfsdóttir http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/onmensnames.shtml

Alternate Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-07 15:24:55
Fixed link for Elina: http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml

Docs check out.

Closest conflict I found was "Helena Hrolfsdottir," which is clear. Though I'd appreciate a second set of eyes on it.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 20:12:28
Not all that close. Changes in first, second, and fourth syllables for http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C1, sound and spelling.

For that matter, substantial change--initial consonant clusters and vowels--under PN3C2 between /ulfs/ and /hrolfs/ for sound, and for three letters. (Note that we linguists are perfectly happy to call the absence of any consonants a cluster.)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:10:48
Looks good.


15: Henry Wolfhart -New Name & New Device

Per bend sable and vert, a wolf's head cabossed and three wolf's teeth issuant from dexter argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Henry - https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/agincourt/

Wolfhart - https://www.ellipsis.cx/~iliana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 21:13:32
Closest is <Heinrich Wolfhart> (Oct 1984), which I suspect would have conflicted under the RfS, but is clear under SENA's sound-and-spelling-only approach by changes to both syllables of the given names.

No actual conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 22:04:45
The given name documentation would need to cite article title and preferably authors, and state the evidence adduced. Thus:

Henry - Arval Benicoeur and Talan Gwynek, "A List of 15th Century English Men's Names" by Arval Benicoeur and Talan Gwynek, https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/agincourt/, Henry 23, instances.
So does the surname documentation, with a corrected URL (minus an intrusive I):
Wolfhart - Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Surnames N - Z", http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html, 3 instances of Wolfhart from Nürnberg
Unfortunately, all this crashes, even though by only a few years, against the rock that at https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/02/15-02cl.html#2 the College permits "English-German Lingual Mixes" only "in the context of the 16th and early 17th centuries"

So scratch all of the above (except as perhaps useful examples of how to do citations) and instead use the following for an all-German name.
Henry - <Henry> Brinckman (Male), christened 1646, Katholisch [Kirche], Billerbeck, Westfallen, Prussia, C98229-1, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPT8-85S
and/or fully in-period but French Huguenot
Henry - <Henry> Le Vec (Male), christened 17 Oct 1592, Franzoesisch Reformierte, Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Baden, C93283-1, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N83N-D13, and identically including the same batch number, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5N1-H6X
also shown as
<Henry> Le Vec (Male), christened 17 Oct 1592, Huguenot, Frankenthal, Pfalz, Bavaria, C99924-1, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKLF-WRZ
(Heidelberg and Frankenthal are not identical but both are in the Pfalz/Baden area)
and
Wolfhart - Magdalena <Wolfhart> christened 19 Jan 1589, Ulm, Württemberg, Germany, C00441-7, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NC74-BBW
Again, don't use the crossed-out items above; they don't combine under either Appendix A or the 2015 Cover Letter.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:11:22
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:47:16
The wolf's head isn't cabossed but it also doesn't fit our erasure requirements.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:34:32
So, it looks like they took the art from the Traceable Art Project for wolf's head erased affronty, and shortened the erasures because of space.

http://heraldicart.org/wolf/wolfs-head-erased-affronty.pdf

versus Cabossed

http://heraldicart.org/wolf/wolfs-head-cabossed.pdf

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Sigrith Vigdisardaater at 2018-06-05 00:21:54
It appears to be Viking Answer Lady's cabossed wolf head: http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/Stars/Heraldry_SVG_Images/Wolfs_Head_Cabossed.svg

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 20:59:23
I believe it's from the Traceable Art before I induced a long overdue change recently.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-08 07:30:21
Regardless of where it's from, it's not cabossed and the erasures are too small to be valid. :-)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 16:28:15
So even if not submitter's fault, submitter's responsibility. Yes, of course.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-08 17:19:20
It can be fixed. The rabbit hole of "where did it come from" though is less useful.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:12:01
Agree that the head is halfway between caboshed and erased. It needs to be redrawn as clearly one or the other. No conflicts found.


16: House of Feithheimr -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(Fieldless) A Celtic dragon with orthala tail representing family

Santiago de mond Verda - submitter

Badge Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-04 14:50:57
This house name doesn't appear to be registered. Also, we've never registered a Celtic dragon. The dragon here looks more like a serpent as it has no legs or wings.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:40:43
Submitter is Santiago de Monte Verde and this item would be registered to him.

If this were registerable, it could be associated with the Household - which he'd need to register if he wanted that association.

I do not see this as a registerable design.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-06-04 21:24:57
In order for the badge to be associated with a household name, the household name must be registered.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-05 17:46:54
yeah, that's what I was clumsily trying to say. I plan on getting with them about the issues on this one.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-06-05 17:40:48
The blazon makes no sense, the emblazon is of a non-heraldic object, the submitter misspelled his own name, and the household isn't registered.

This is just crying out for an admin. return.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-05 17:46:37
In fairness to Asterisk, the submitter neglected to complete that part of the forms.

The herald for this group is new, and issues will be addressed.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-05 18:00:05
While there are issues with the submission itself, I do think the herald did a great job drawing the badge despite it not being registrable. It's clear and distinct and they tried very hard to submit what the client wanted; it's just a matter of squaring the submitter's desires with what the College will accept.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-05 22:11:10
Basil, your comment may be factually accurate, but your your choice of words leaves a lot to be desired. A lot. This should be a place for education. You are often quite helpful, but this comment is unnecessarily rude. Please keep your commentary constructive.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 22:34:44
The blazon makes perfect sense; it's just not in acceptable form. (Assuming the whole badge and/or the household name, not just the rune, represents family.) Moreover, I think this can be wholly heraldic as

(Fieldless) A wingless legless wyvern embowed, tail nowed in the form of an orthala rune

We've had wyverns both wingless and legless registered in the OSCAR era, though not both privations together at any time. Incidentally, if consistency in rune names were a priority (which it clearly has not been for our Sovereigns), we could say an odal rune.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-08 07:31:57
A legless and wingless wyvern is a serpent and this is not an acceptable posture.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 16:30:59
Call it

(Fieldless) A dragon-headed serpent, tail nowed in the form of an orthala rune [EDIT: , argent!]

then. I don't understand what's wrong with its posture. It's not forming a recognizable modern question mark, for which submissions have been returned.

Vémundr at 2018-06-08 16:42:47
Missed the tincture there:

(Fieldless) A dragon-headed serpent argent, tail nowed in the form of an orthala rune

I think this works blazoned that way, for whatever that's worth.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-06-08 17:29:25
When you look at serpent postures, it's not erect as that would have the neck much less arched and the tail going down rather than curled into the question mark point. It's not glissant, involved, in annulo, or nowed. If the tail is nowed into a orthala rune, then the end should be approximately the same length as the beginning of the rune and not with a notch on the tip. In the end, this is a wonderful piece of Nordic art, but it's very non-heraldic.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 18:48:58
I don't know that the notch is relevant. Noting those points on posture I hadn't, but should have, thought about, we could try

(Fieldless) A dragon-headed serpent erect embowed argent, head bowed, tail nowed in the form of an orthala rune

Which is a number of words saying, perhaps, "not in a very heraldic posture but still describable".

Consultation on making it more nearly standard might well be desirable, but I think it's at least doubtful now.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:13:26
Agree that the household name must be registered with this badge. Don't know what a Celtic dragon is supposed to look like, but this is not a heraldic dragon or wyvern. Agree that this is not a heraldic posture in any case. Also, what's with the scales being absent from the tail?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 18:52:39
The scales are absent from the tail in more than one modern "Celtic dragon" so called, e.g., at https://dawnsdressdiary.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/viking-costume-inspiration-embellishment/, first image below, where Dawn says it's a Deviant Art image, stolen all over the Net. (It's marked "AEH 2011", apparently Arnt Erik Hedman, https://vikingtattoo.deviantart.com/.) Or see the second image, by roblfc1892 at https://roblfc1892.deviantart.com/art/celtic-dragon-2-78215859.

Which of course does nothing to make it more heraldic, but I believe that element could be ignored as "an artistic detail".

Green Anchor (and others): Could you accept the emblazon as a serpent, blazoned as I have just above, or is that pushing things too far?

1: Image 1 2: Image 2


17: Isabel de Cádiz -New Name

Isabel - http://heraldry.sca.org/names/portuguese.html

de Cádiz - location in Spain

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 09:50:47
Isabel - The link didn't work for me. There is "Portuguese Names 1350-1450" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith) where `Isabell' is found once, but the article later on says, ` Isabell is also spelled Isabel, Issebel, Issabell, and Issabel'. http://heraldry.sca.org/names/portuguese.htm.
Isabel is also found in 16th Century Spanish Names, Feminine given names, sorted by frequency by Elsbeth Anne Roth (Kathy Van Stone) http://heraldry.sca.org/names/spanish/fem-given-freq.html

de Cadiz - 9: Dionisio Sebastian de Cadiz - New Name comments from Gleann Abhann LoI - 2014-06-30. In comments by Gunnvor silfraharr (Orle) at 2014-07-06 15:17:49 mentions "1595 <Don Rodrigo Ponce de Leõ Marques de Cadiz>, <San Sebastian>, Pedro de Medina. Primera y Segunda Parte de las Grandezas y Cosas Notables de España. Juan Gracian. 1595. pp. 38, 101, 108, 156. http://books.google.com/books?id=f5qtYd2_1JUC&pg=RA3-PA108-IA5". Cadiz is all throughout the book. See image of the name Gunnvor gave.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 22:36:55
For a few instances with the accent on the A of <Cádiz>, as submitted, we can use Alberto Larco Herrera, Anales de Cabildo : Ciudad de Trujillo*, 1598, https://books.google.com/books?id=UZpQAAAAYAAJ. Image below is from p. 51.
------------------------------
* Author and title from enlarging Google's title page as confirmed by https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011818241.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 23:15:20
Minimally clear of <Isabelle de Calais> (Sept 2010) by substantial difference of one syllable, http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C2, even if we pronounce the S on <Calais> and ignore the E on <Isabelle>, which I suspect is an ahistoric combination anyway. All the cases of <(YI)(zs)ab(ie)au> are at least that clear under the same rule.

I find no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:13:48
Looks OK.


18: Jehanne Wolfhart -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Jane Milford(11/2009)

Per bend azure and Or, a harp and triquetra knot counter charged

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Jehanne - http://heraldry,sca,org/names/latefrenchfem.html

Wolfhart - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~iliana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html

Elfrida Scholastica Eliensis gave permission to submitter for her armory "Per bend azure and Or, a harp and triquetra knot counter charge" to look similar to, but not identical to her armory "Per bend azure and Or, a range of three organ pipes and a Wake knot counterchanged". Elfrida understands that this permission cannot be withdrawn once submitter's armory is registered

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 23:42:07
I find no conflicts.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:42:25
The charge in base is just a 'triquetra'. Fixing that plus 'counter charged' gives:

Per bend azure and Or, a harp and triquetra counterchanged.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 23:18:00
One more word, I think,

Per bend azure and Or, a harp and a triquetra counterchanged

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:14:06
No conflicts found.


19: Lisette D'Amour -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Lockwood Manor(6/2004)

Argent, a peacock proper and on a chief azure three apples Or

Lisette - 1528(3) http://heraldry.sca.org/names/latefrenchfem.html

D'Amour - Netherlands Marriages, 1565-1892 Charles D'Armour and Agathe Villems, 28 Nov 1620 http://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FNC8-F83:12December2014

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 23:55:27
I find no conflicts.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 05:13:34
Lisette - From the url supplied, Lisette is dated to 1528 found in Late Period Feminine Names from the South of France by Talan Gwynek (Brian M. Scott)

D'Amour - the supplied url (without the date) shows Batch # M90125-4. Accessed 6/9/2018. http://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FNC8-F83

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:14:48
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-07 23:29:35
From http://heraldry.sca.org/coagloss.html#proper, a peacock proper is "Mostly blue and green with 'eyes' in the tail". I see very little green at proper viewing distance, and in the color version the green and black eyes disappear. I do not know if this will incur worse than an artist's note, if that. However, I urge pointing out to submitter (or her artist) that Or can be used to make the eyes pop into view.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:16:02
No conflicts found. Agree with Gerard's comments about the way this has been drawn.


20: Madelina Katerina Cadwyn -New Name & New Device

Per chevron Or and azure, a crescent purpure a crescent gules and a tyger rampant Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (English) most important.
Culture (England 1400-1550) most important.

Madelina - 1221(w) "Feminine Given Names un DES, part 3" http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyHZ.html

Katerina - 1208 Viaterin; 1275 Catlin; 1299 (S: Wulfwine); 1327 Bellman; 1332 (S.Eastorhild); 14xiii; 1379 Rastrick; 1428(w); 1480 Jaggar; 1497 Soothill http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyHZ.html

Cadwyn - Christian Cadwyn 20 March 1580 "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X:30December2014.ChristianCadwyn

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 04:31:23
Cadwyn - From FamilySearh Christian Cadwyn, christened in CREDITON, DEVON, ENGLAND, Batch # C05074-1. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X. Accessed 6/9/2018

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:16:25
Docs check out.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-15 06:36:32
I haven't been able to find an example of Madelina from the 15th & 16th centuries to meet her request. Others may have more luck.

Device Comments:

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:44:48
The tyger seems to look like a lion to me. If this is so, we will have identifiability issues down the line

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:44:21
this looks close enough to the tygers as found in the Traceable Art Project that it should probably be fine. The biggest difference I'm seeing is the nose pointing down versus straight out.

http://heraldicart.org/tyger/

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 00:00:08
Some of the nose-horns there point down, too. Which is how the paragraph at the beginning of that page describes them. Anyway, this is the one from http://mistholme.com/dictionary/tyger/.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:17:17
If the partition line were lowered to divide the field more nearly in half, the coprimary charges could be drawn more nearly equal in size. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 18:56:19
Couldn't lower it under current directives, but could flatten it to that end.


21: Melanie of Greywood -New Name & New Device

Vert, a chevron ermine between two ships and an Irish wolfhound argent

Melanie - "The Oxford Dictionary of Saints" by David Hugh Farmer pg 336

"The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" by E.G. Withycombe pg 216

Graywood - The Shire of Greywood SCA Ansteorra Shire located in Lufkin, Huntington, and Nacogdoches, Texas

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-07 15:17:04
I have neither of the given name books. FamilySearch has Melanie Beare, marriage: 9 June 1594, Clyst Hydon, Devon, England. (Batch) Number M05068-1. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N25K-BM3. Accessed 6/7/2018

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:18:07
Don't have Farmer or Withycombe any more.

Device Comments:

Corbin de Huntyngfeld (Arbalest) at 2018-06-04 19:46:24
Just a tweak on the blazon:

vert, a chevron ermine, two ships chief and an Irish wolfhound rampant argent

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:46:36
I disagree and think the form of the original blazon was correct - but we do need to add rampant to the wolfhound.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 00:24:39
So

Vert, a chevron ermine between two ships and an Irish wolfhound rampant argent

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 01:11:52
There is a step from period practice for the use of any specific breed of dog that's not found in period blazons.

Those that are clearly include the simple dog along with talbot and greyhound. http://mistholme.com/dictionary/dog/ adds the alaunt, "a short-eared mastiff", which Parker thought was iffy, as definitely period. Mastiff itself is very frequent with us and seems to trigger no comment, though at least one was reblazoned a talbot, and the same for the plain ancient hound (including the chance of becoming a talbot).

Assuming for argument that the others mentioned in Fox-Davies's Complete Guide Ch. XII are period, we could add bloodhounds and a type of those called sleuth-hounds--both terms are period in general if not heraldic usage, according to the OED. But that work says fox-hound is 18th c.

Parker adds the leverer (French also levrier, levron) as very early, which is a synonym for 'greyhound', and perhaps the ratch-hound, another hunting dog, that shows up a bit after our gray period in the OED:

1680 G. Mackenzie Sci. Herauldry i. xix. 57 A Ratch hound current, betwixt three hunting-horns Sable.
which coat Parker assigns to Forrester of Dundee.

Parker seems to say that both spaniels and terriers are modern.

That's all--and as I indicate, maybe more than all.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:19:00
No conflicts found. The dexter ship has not been colored in completely around the mizzenmast. I see no indication in the RfS or the PicDic that there is a default posture for dogs, so this needs to be specified as rampant.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 18:59:18
Apologies for getting over-fascinated by the breed issue.

Vert, a chevron ermine between two ships and an Irish wolfhound rampant argent

Can we add color, or get it added, on the dexter ship?


22: Merrick Rowe -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Moire Gray(3/2013), Morriss Greir (4/2011)

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Merrick - "England Marriages, 1538-1973" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5K9-P4D:10December2014

Rowe - England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLNP-LTW:6December2014

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 04:19:20
Merrick - From the submitted FamilySearch url Merrick White, married 01 Oct 1637, Saint Matthew, Friday Street, London, London,England. Batch # M00150-1. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5K9-P4D

Submitted FamilySearch url for Rowe, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLNP-LTW shows Page Not Found. When adding the ":6December2014" I get An Error Has Occurred message.
Anthonye Rowe, buried 17 Sep 1559, St. Botolph Aldgate, London, England. Batch # B02101-3. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRX4-WW1. Both accessed 6/9/2018

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:19:16
Docs check out.


23: Miles Gregory Cadwyn -New Name & New Device

Or, a bend cotised gules and overall a lynx's head couped contourney sable marked argent

Miles - pg 219 "The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" by E.G. Withycombe Miles: Conventry Mysteries 15th Century

Gregory - pg 139 "The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" by E.G. Withycombe Gregory:HR 1273, CI 1387

Cadwyn - Christian Cadwyn: "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-08 04:39:20
Miles & Gregory - SENA, Appendix A, English/Welsh, says double given names appear Late. I am under the impression it means 16th century.
DMNES, Miles, Early Modern English, 1540 Miles StAnthonlin p. 1; 1541 Miles ibid. p. 3; 1543 Miles ibid. p. 4; 1549 Miles ibid. p. 7; 1589 Miles SaxhamSf p. 4, StAnthonlin p. 33; 1592 Miles SaxhamSf p. 4. http://dmnes.org/2017/1/name/Miles

DMNES Gregory, Early Modern English, 1530 Gregory LIWill-III p. 15; 1542 Gregory DEmar-vol1 p. 78, RegIng p. 2; 1543 Gregory BarnstapleBap p. 3; 1557 Gregory bruton-vol1 p. 28; 1569 Gregory BEmar-vol2 p. 30; 1583 Gregory StAnthonlin p. 30; 1584 Gregory DEmar-vol2 p. 10, StAnthonlin p. 31; 1586 Gregory DEmar-vol2 p. 12; 1587 Gregory ibid. p. 13; 1590 Gregory ibid. p. 21; 1595 Gregory StAnthonlin p. 37; 1596 Gregory DEmar-vol2 p. 35. http://dmnes.org/2017/1/name/Gregory. Both accessed 6/8/2018.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 17:01:42
I find no conflicts.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 04:31:58
Cadwyn - From the supplied url Christian Cadwyn, christened 20 Mar 1580, CREDITON, DEVON, ENGLAND, Batch # C05074-1. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X. Accessed 6/9/2018

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:20:11
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:46:05
The space between the cotises and the bend should be Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 19:47:31
Do we think that space will be wide enough?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:20:47
"contourny" The double outlining in the b&w emblazon is confusing. The field should show between the bend and the cotisses, so that space needs to be changed to Or. No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 19:02:17
That double outlining permitted adding internal detailing on the ear and neck in the color version. I'm willing to let it remain in the b&w to enable that good result, but the artist should be informed that it could be removed from the b&w elsewhere as unneeeded without triggering a complaint that the two versions don't match.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 19:03:08
For cut&paste:

Or, a bend cotised gules and overall a lynx's head couped contourny sable marked argent


24: Munokhoi Kiyad -New Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Ansteorra LoI of November 25, 2016 as submitted.

Or, a three headed naga glissant within a orle sable

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 17:24:25
As noted for the defining instance from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=60224, there is a step from period practice for the naga as a non-European charge, but I can't imagine there's a second step to trip on here.

I find the emblazon similar enough to that instance to be acceptable, and different enough to be laudable. But I suspect the College would be happier to see a source--preferably period, and if possible heraldic--for this rendition. My best find for the head shape with any attribution is below, from https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-wat-xieng-maun-templeluang-prabang-laos-oldest-temple-from-1500s-k ings-124516530.html, captioned "Wat Xieng Maun temple Luang Prabang Laos - oldest temple from 1500s. Kings funeral hearse with Naga".

I searched with naga indochina to minimize the Western fantasy images.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 17:26:07
Needs one more letter for prestige-dialect grammar:

Or, a three headed naga glissant within an orle sable

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 19:52:53
Submitter's name was corrected to <Munokhoi Kiyan> for registration at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/02/17-02lar.html#36.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:21:21
No conflicts found.


25: Roland Longstaff -New Name & New Device

Per bend sinister azure and Or, a dragon rampant contourney and a cross formy countercharged

Roland - "The Concise Dictionary of English Christian Names" by E.G. Withycombe. Old German Hrodland, compound of hrothi "fame" and landa "land". As the name of most famous of the peers of Charlemagne, Roland was a favourite in the Middle Ages and was introduced unto England by the Normans.

Longstaff - "English Births and Christenings, 1838-1975 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVXB-F1Q:6December2014

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 10:19:58
Longstaff - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVXB-F1Q is for Martha Longstaff, mother, Christening Date:28 Sep 1814, Batch # I00718-2. January LOAR 2014, From Pelican: Acceptable Batches for FamilySearch Historical Records "A name submission this month relied on a B batch record at FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi). This batch had previously not been ruled acceptable as sole documentation for a name element. We are correcting this omission: B batches from the indexed records at FamilySearch are now acceptable as documentation. Otherwise, the information in the September 2012 Cover Letter is still valid: In general batches beginning with C, J, K, M (except M17 and M18), or P are acceptable. If you use another batch, please address why you believe it to be a period spelling of the name. For example, I batches are taken from indices created at various points in the past. Thus, some names in this batch are normalized, and earlier indexes may reflect out of date scholarship. When citing an IGI record be sure to include the batch number."

There is Robert Longstaff, christened 01 May 1567, batch # P00060-1. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N58J-8M3 Accessed 6/6/2018

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 20:24:42
Documentation for given name shows no date. Heavily cribbing (and shortening) from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=16580 for Roland Wodeman and https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=3084 for Roland fitzWilliam de Montaillou gives:

Roland - Header entry in Withycombe (3rd ed., p. 256) though not dated in body. But R&W s.n. Rowland shows the desired spelling in a surname, Nicholas <Roland> 1303.
The first sentence is perhaps not enough, and R&W's evidence is too long before the surname's date provided by Lady Maridonna. For usage contemporary with that surname, I offer
<Roland> Browne (Male), christened 04 Jan 1588, Fishtoft, Lincoln, England, C02826-2, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYKV-59J
(Her Robert <Longstaff> was in Great Stainton, Durham, England, so we're in the same country.)

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-09 03:51:05
Thanks for supplying the location info for Longstaff.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 20:42:06
I find no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:21:48
Docs check out. Don't have Withycombe, but Family Search has a ton of Rolands from late period England.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-06-04 17:48:48
Fixing a couple typos:

Per bend sinister azure and Or, a dragon rampant contourny and a cross formy counterchanged.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-06-05 17:43:13
The cross, having been squeezed into its area, has gotten tilted, and thus its orientation blurs the distinction between palewise and bendwise sinister.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:22:22
"contourny" No conflicts found. I'd draw the cross a smidgeon smaller so that can be upright instead of tilted.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 19:05:31
Maister Iago caught the misspelling above. And when it's made upright the cross could alternatively be moved down a smidgeon without becoming smaller.


26: Thomas Westleigh -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Thomas de Lacy(2/2002), Thomas du Lac (6/1989)

Argent, a fox rampant vert and on a chief vert two rapiers in saltire argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

Thomas - E.G. Withycombe pg 266

Westleigh - https://familysearch.org/search/record/resulys?count=20+query=%2batch_number%3ACO5210-1

Family Search batch C05210-1 Westleigh as a locative

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-06 10:34:51
For Westleigh: Jone Berrye, christened 12 July 1567, Westleigh by Bideford, Devon, England. Batch # C05210-1. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N567-6YV Accessed 6/6/2018

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-06-07 10:20:51
R&W, s.n. "Wesley, Westley, Westly...From Westleigh (Devon, Lancs), Westley Waterless (Cambs), or Westley (Suffolk)." No spelling of Westleigh was given, though.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 21:03:53
Closest by sound, being clear by only substantial difference in one syllable, is <Thomas Loxley> May 2014.

I find no conflicts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:23:27
Docs check out thanks to Maridonna's comments.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:23:58
The first "vert" is superfluous and should be omitted. The rapiers are inverted: "Argent, a fox rampant and on a chief vert two rapiers inverted in saltire argent." No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 19:06:33
Concur with reblazon.


27: Úlfr Smidsson -New Name & New Device

Gules, a saltire sable fimbriated Or and overall a wolf rampant argent

Úlfr - 21 ooLVr http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/name/norse/landnamabok.html

Smidsson - Smiðr GB p 14 s.n. http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 19:40:21
The given name documentation should include author, article name, and correct URL to read

Úlfr - Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "Viking Names found in Landnámabók, http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html. <Úlfr>, 21 instances.
(The headmatter has an S missing from the URL, and its "ooLVr" is a mistranscription of the author's pronunciation indication, OOLVr, which can be omitted.) That article gives no specific date for <Úlfr>, but the language is classified as Old Norse.

The byname documentation offered is also for Old Norse, perhaps best offered as follows, using the information actually in the source (cribbing shamelessly from the three previously proposed <Smiðsson>s in the OSCAR era and abbreviating as allowed by http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html#APPENDIXH):
Smiðsson - Smiðr in Geirr Bassi, p. 14, as a given name. Patronymic formed per p. 17 there.
That is, if submitter wants a wholly Old Norse name, he must submit <Úlfr Smiðsson>.

(If submitter really prefers the centuries-later <Smidsson>--i.e., the submission does not merely reflect his current unfamiliarity with Old Norse letters--he should see Mistress ffride's documentation at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=85029 and note it is less than a half-millenium younger than his given name though in what is considered a daughter language.)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:25:10
It's more accurate to translate an edth with "th" rather than "d".

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 19:07:08
It's wrong to transcribe it with a D.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 22:14:27
I find no conflicts for either <Úlfr Smiðsson> or the dubious <Úlfr Smidsson>. Submitter should of course make an informed choice.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 19:00:19
Please see my illustrated screed about too-thin fimbriation, either above in this letter at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=5196&dsn=86477#11, Gemma Long Stride Cadwyn, or at https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=86276, at your convenience.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 19:01:12
There is a step from period practice for using an overall charge with a fimbriated ordinary, but that's the only one I see here.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:25:49
No conflicts found. Would like to see the fimbriation just a bit thicker.


28: Ulrich von Tolstat -New Name & New Device

Gules, a chevron sable fimbriated argent between a mullet argent a mullet Or and a wolf rampant Or

Ulrich - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnamesnurnn=z.html

von Tolstat - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnamesnurnn=z.html

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 22:40:00
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2018/01/18-01cl.html#2, "From Laurel: Updates to Appendix H of the Administrative Handbook", adds Countess Aryanhwy's website to the no-photocopy sources. That decree goes on to state, "Note that a full summary of the information contained in these sources is still required. Citing only the URL where a name element appears, and nothing more, creates a great deal of extra work for commenters and for Pelican. The Letter of Intent should include the full name of the source and a summary of what the source says about the name element."

So, with a corrected URL (they don't use equal signs), the first would be:

Ulrich - Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Surnames N - Z," http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html, Ulrich 3 times, all in Nürnberg
Except there's no dispensation allowing surnames to be used as given names in 15th-c. German. So scratch that and instead use, say,
Ulrich - Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497", http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/nurnberg1497.html, masculine given name, as <Ulrich> 79 times in Nürnberg, 65 in surrounding cities
For the byname,
von Tolstat - Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Surnames N - Z," http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnamesnurnn-z.html, von Tolstat once in Nürnberg
Only the last two indented paragraphs above need be used in the headmatter.

Device Comments:

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-06-04 20:51:12
potential reblazon? Gules, a chevron sable fimbriated between a mullet argent, a mullet, and a wolf rampant Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-08 21:11:41
Because this is not how tinctures generally pattern, there's probably no good blazon that neither makes the recipient puzzle nor repeats "Or"--if not both. Yours,

Gules, a chevron sable fimbriated between a mullet argent, a mullet, and a wolf rampant Or

probably has the virtue of maximum brevity. That submitted has better processability, but I think would be improved with commas as

Gules, a chevron sable fimbriated argent between a mullet argent, a mullet Or, and a wolf rampant Or

or else

Gules, a chevron sable fimbriated argent between a mullet argent, another Or, and a wolf rampant Or

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:28:19
No conflicts found. Bordure's blazon is right on.


29: Wiwaz Krákr -New Name & New Device

Per saltire sable and gules, three drinking horns fretted in triangle between two ravens addorsed Or

Wiwaz - https://en.wikipedia,org/wiki/tune_stone

https://en.wikipedia,org/wiki/rundata

https://www.runenprojekt.uni=keil.de/abfragen/standard/deutung2_eng.asp?findno+32port=

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/record/009007427

Krákr - https://www.vikinganswerlady,com/ONMensnames.shtml

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2018-05-29/20-05-51_Wiwaz_Krakr_name_doc_1.jpg

Name Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-06-05 17:48:58
Every single link has an error. I was able to figure the correct URLs for wikipedia and vikinganswerlady, but not the other two.

Wiwaz is very early; is Krákr within 500 years?

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-06-09 05:43:25
My worry is if the name elements are within 500 years, too.

Lexikon över urnordiska personnamn by Lena Peterson (http://www.sprakochfolkminnen.se/download/18.5e02b54a144bbda8e9b1c11/1398151044347/urnordiska-person namn.pdf) also has:
sn. Wiwaz(?)

Tilnavne i den islandske oldlitteratur by Finnur Jónsson has, in part:
(http://heimskringla.no/wiki/Tilnavne_som_er_hæntede_fra_naturens_rige) sn. krákr
Þorleifr Ldn., Nj. X. `Ravn'.
[Þorleifr krákr, Landnámabók, Njálssaga, 10th century. 'Raven']
Implies that the byname is too late, if the runestone is circa 300 CE (as per https://snl.no/Tunesteinen).

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 23:02:51
Headmatter's image #1 says the <Wiwaz> is proto-Norse (though attested--I didn't think we ever used "proto" for attested languages). To fix the temporal incompatibility, how about we suggest he use the Old Norse shown in that image, <Véfúss>, picking one or more sources listed at https://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml#v.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-06-07 15:15:42
Links to inscriptions of the runes: http://www.runenprojekt.uni-kiel.de/abfragen/wortmaterial3_eng.asp?wklasse=PN&wordno=411

http://www.runenprojekt.uni-kiel.de/abfragen/wortmaterial3_eng.asp?wklasse=PN&wordno=936

Not quite what the original link was, but that's what I could trace.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 22:55:55
And those that Lions Heart worked out are presumably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/rune_stone, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundata, and https://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensnames.shtml#k.

A Google search on inurl:hathitrust wiwaz finds nothing.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:28:56
Finally found enough of the references to document both names.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 23:23:11
I find no conflicts for either <Wiwaz Krákr> or my proposed <Véfúss Krákr>.

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:29:14
No conflicts found.


30: Worgan Madoc -New Name

Worgan - "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPJY-98L:30December2014

Anthony Worgan 03Feb 1566

Madoc - "England Marriages 1538-1973" https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL8Z-N8N:10December2014

Name Comments:

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2018-06-08 07:26:06
(1) Remove the colon and date from the end of the FS links to get them to work.

(2) Image of baptismal register attached. I leave it to those better versed in period hands to figure out whether it really says Worgan and Wattys or if it's actually Morgan and Mattys.

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 23:37:26
So we need to cite

Worgan, late-period English surname used as given name - Anthony <Worgan>, christened 09 Jan 1566, Saint Nicholas, Gloucester, Gloucester, England, C03611-2, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPJY-98L
That has an accepted batch #, which I would have thought implies the College trusts the transcription. And
Thomas <Madoc>, married Agnes Hawkyns, 09 Nov 1544, Awre with Blakeney, Gloucester, England, M02330-2, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL8Z-N8N
Nice, I suppose, that they're both in the same county.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-06-10 15:29:49
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-06-10 23:48:14
I find no conflicts for <Worgan Madoc>.



OSCAR counts 24 Names, 1 Alternate Name, 1 Heraldic Title, 19 Devices and 2 Badges. There are a total of 47 items submitted on this letter.

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