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Ansteorra Kingdom ILoI dated 2018-03-09

Greetings! I'm helping out Asterisk as we all prepare to head to War! Any mistakes in the internal submission process are mine. For those attending Gulf Wars - we look forward to meeting/seeing you and getting your commentary when we return! For those not able to attend, we appreciate your commentary as well!

1: Ansteorra, Kingdom of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in of at some point, .

(Fieldless) A Hand of Fatima within and conjoined to a cornice sable.

This submission is to be associated with Ansteorran Middle Eastern Studies Guild

Badge Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-03-09 13:13:49
Based on past registrations, the cornice needs more detail. We also capitalize 'Fatima', but not 'hand'.

Reblazon: (Fieldless) A hand of Fatima within and conjoined to a four lobed quadrate cornice sable.

Konstantia Kaloethina (Greek Fire) at 2018-03-17 13:44:41
I disagree. This is the same cornice that was used in several other registrations. I believe it is fine for registration, but I leave that for Wreath to decide.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-03-17 13:48:30
Sorry, I wasn't clear: the blazon needs more detail about the cornice.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 19:54:11
At https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=83773, at 2018-03-04 18:18:02, Lions Heart posted:

The question of how the Hand of Fatima was depicted, in period (in particular, this sort of depiction), was the subject of a Laurel LoPaD, dated 11/30/17. The overall LoPaD can be found at:
https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=4902
and the particular discussion at:
https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=81671

The discussion was long and rigorous; I will not try to reduce it here. Given that that LoPaD has been decided by now (see https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=137), I think it would be wise to pend this until that decision has been published (which will be in a couple of months).

If you go and read the linked discussion, you will see that it is a bit difficult to predict what the ruling will be; that's why I suggest waiting.
I do not have access to that discussion, but I'm willing to accept Lions Heart's evaluation. Bordure Herald will of course make her own decision.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-03-10 18:16:29
Thank you for posting the cross-reference. :-)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-11 01:21:34
I couldn't see how it was confidential, so I made bold to do so.

Alisone McCay (Star) at 2018-03-16 14:15:01
The kingdom will pend this badge for now due to knowledge of a decision regarding the display being decided at Laurel.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:23:30
No conflicts found.


2: Ansteorra, Kingdom of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in of at some point, .

Or, a seme of semiminumas sable.

This submission is to be associated with Ansteorran Musician's Guild

Attached please find an example of the note printed in 1602.

Definition of semiminum can also be found:

In most modern manuals of mensural notation, the semiminim is generally defined as follows: it is a note value worth half of a minim, it is a discrete, independent note value able to participate actively in rhythmic notation, it generally is written in black notation as *symbol* and it is always called a semiminim.

Please see ChII, The Semiminim: Issues of Terminology p52

Theoregical Treatments of the Semiminim in a Changing Notational World c1315-c1440

https://www.diamm.ac.uk/documents/141/Cook-Diss.pdf

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1792/2018-03-08/15-37-11_Page_from_le_gratie_d'amore.png
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1792/2018-03-08/15-37-12_simiminim.PNG

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 20:18:46
I believe, for the reasons stated below, that the blazon will become

Or, semy of musical notes sable

although the submitted documentation should perhaps be forwarded to show that the emblazon uses one period form of musical notes.

The source adduced declares in its Abstract that "My intensive survey of the extant theoretical literature from the earliest days of the Ars Nova through c. 1440 reveals how the conceptualization and codification of notation occurred in different places according to different fundamental principles, resulting not in one semiminim but a plethora of related small note values." And, "The central theme of my research is to show how and why the theoretical conceptualization of these myriad small note values is key to understanding the continual merging of these local preferences into a more amalgamated style of notation by the mid-fifteenth century." This seems to establish that no single glyph represents "semiminumas" (which is not, by the way, the plural found in the source, where the standard "semiminims" appears). That fact argues against, not for, our Sovereigns registering a charge so named.

Incidentally, there is a typo as well as an author's name and other data missing from the citation. I propose:


Karen M. Cook, "Theoretical Treatments of the Semiminim in a Changing Notational World c. 1315-c. 1440", dissertation, Duke University, 2012. https://www.diamm.ac.uk/documents/141/Cook-Diss.pdf


(I am resisting a reflex to make it "unpublished dissertation", which strikes me as inappropriate in the age of the 'Net.) [See reply for why this reflex is accurate after all.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-03-10 05:47:47
Off-topic comment:

The thesis/dissertation is, technically, still unpublished. It's something to do with hair-splitting over having a thesis available in an online repository vs. published by a company that produces books or academic articles.
(I am currently dealing with the opposite problem, that bits of my thesis have been published-by-publishers, so there's going to be an embargo on my thesis being freely available in an online repository, which is why I know the answer... sort of.)

Thomas de Groet at 2018-03-17 13:15:11
I disagree completely with the reblazon suggestion. The reblazon would not be reproducible as the original emblazon.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-17 13:29:14
The emblazon would be among multiple possibilities from my proposed--and I suspect unavoidable--reblazon. But if it is preferred to let our Sovereigns make the decision, then either the term in the submitted blazon must be documented, or the documented term should be used:

Or, semy of semiminims sable

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:23:59
"Semy" is an adjective. No conflicts found.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-02 16:42:36
The blazon needs work. There is no way to determine the value of this note without either a date (century) or a time signature. Notes as symbols divorced from a staff and the other defining characteristics of musical notation, are completely abstract. That being said, I don't believe this design is registerable, as it contains only abstract symbols (SENA, GP.2.).

Assuming this flies past GP.2., it still has problems. Image #1 is pretty good, though it comes from Wikipedia (mensural notation). Due to the fluid nature of time signatures, the same symbol could be double or half its value from one manuscript or printing to the next. A solid, stemmed, flagged musical note is most often a semi-minim ONLY in the 14th century. In the 15th and 16th, this is a fusa (and later, it's a quaver). A semy of semiminima could also be depicted using our standard musical note (sans flag), or a voided, flagged musical note.

If THIS picture is important to people, the only way to get it reliably is to blazon this as Or, a semy of flagged musical notes sable. That is the only way that you will get this picture, and only this picture. I will point out that this is NOT a period charge, so Mistholme/PicDic is your only go-to source for the accepted depiction. (The notes in the prick-songbook of the Worshipful Company of Parish Clerks, 1582, our only example of musical notes in period heraldic usage, are square notation neume notes, and have no stems. Image #2 is an altar cloth of 1601.)

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-04-02 16:45:22
as a note: Submitters want the flag and do not care how we end up blazoning it.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-02 17:10:11
I also see that "It was upheld as recently as Nov. 2011, "quavers and other musical notes are considered symbols, but not abstract symbols" (Titus Atrius Magnus)." in the registration of Rebecka Wallis (East, 4/2012). That's a complete mistake, but until it's changed, that should be enough.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-04-02 19:31:23
I agree our terminology is unfortunate, but the distinction reflects the long-standing principle, currently stated at http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#GP2A, that "Another category that may not be registered is an armorial design consisting only of abstract charges [symbols] such as letters, runes, Arabic script, astrological symbols, and the like. Such a registration might prevent someone from using a form of their name or monogram." Whereas registering musical notes in a heraldic arrangement prevents no one from notating a tune.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-02 17:23:19
To underscore my point about reproducibility, the only piece of armory blazoned as a semiminim on OSCAR with a drawing is here: http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=505

They are plain musical notes, no flags.

https://oscar.sca.org/emblazons/AEthelmearc/2008-09/CL-AE114-Helene.jpg

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-02 17:50:53
The cited paper can be had more easily from here: https://dukespace.lib.duke.edu/dspace/handle/10161/6174

And I quote from the abstract: "My intensive survey of the extant theoretical literature from the earliest days of the Ars Nova through c. 1440 reveals how the conceptualization and codification of notation occurred in different places according to different fundamental principles, resulting not in one semiminim but a plethora of related small note values. These phenomena were dynamic and unstable, and a close study of them helps to clarify a range of historical issues." I.e., there is not one good definition for a semiminim, let alone one clear symbol.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-04-02 19:32:52
I am pleased to see Mistress Adelaide agreeing with my analysis above, and am sure she will also concur in my proposed blazon there, viz.,

Or, semy of semiminims sable

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-09 15:09:41
No, exactly the opposite. As I suspected, and Bordure confirmed, they WANT the flags. A blazon of semiminims will not guarantee them the flags, so it is better to explicitly blazon them as 'flagged musical notes'. I suspect that what we will come to at some point is musical note, voided musical note, and flagged musical note for the three most common stemmed note symbols. That treats them as heraldic symbols, not musical ones, which is what they are. "Give me a staff and a time signature, and I'll tell you what kind of note it is" is the pre-Baroque musicologist's version of "If you'll tell me what language fiddle-de-dee is, I'll tell you the French for it!"

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-04-09 17:07:34
My apologies for failing to follow. So you propose:

Or, semy of flagged musical notes sable

We can certainly try that!

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-04-02 19:36:25
However, the dukespace link she cites leads only to the abstract; the link in the headmatter provides the entire dissertation.


3: Ansteorra, Kingdom of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in of at some point, .

Or, on a mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable, in saltire a needle inverted argent and a lace bobbin Or, and a bordure sable.

This submission is to be associated with Ansteorran Lace Makers Guild

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 20:23:15
With minor adjustments for readability and current O&A usage:

Or, on a mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable in saltire a needle inverted argent and a lace bobbin Or, a bordure sable

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:24:19
No conflicts found.


4: Loch Soilleir, Barony of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 1992, via Ansteorra.

(Fieldless) A sea-serpent in annulo head to chief and vorant of its own tail per fess wavy vert and argent.

This submission is to be associated with Former Landed Nobility

Note that this is the charge on their baronial device.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1792/2018-03-08/16-07-31_Loch_Soilleir_Device.png

Badge Comments:

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-03-11 06:22:22
While this charge is on their baronial device, the line of division is extremely difficult to identify without the rest of the device.

Madoc Arundel (Garnet) at 2018-03-13 08:29:36
I do not see the wavy at all.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-13 19:55:01
It's conveniently emphasized in the line drawing, waving the opposite sign from their registered device.

Madoc Arundel (Garnet) at 2018-03-13 20:01:45
Yeah... I don't think there is enough of a "wave" in the thin line of the serpent to actually call that wavy. It only works on their device because the motif carries the whole width of the shield.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:24:38
No conflicts found.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-03-20 12:34:29
more along these lines, or should I make the waves more frequent within the body?

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2018-04-02 16:53:17
I would remove the wavy entirely. Given the relative width of the serpent body and the probable wave length of an underlying wavy division, the serpent is as likely as not to simply be divided in a nearly straight line. It's certainly not visually significant enough to provide a difference, not that it's needed, and it just gives people something to shoot at. Remove the "wavy" from the blazon, and it should pass without comment.


5: Loch Soilleir, Barony of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 1992, via Ansteorra.

Per bend azure and gules, a mullet and a base engrailed argent.

This submission is to be associated with Loch Soilleir Encampment

Badge Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:24:56
No conflicts found.


6: Loch Soilleir, Barony of -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 1992, via Ansteorra.

Vert, a fess wavy and overall a sea serpent in annulo head to chief and vorant of its own tail argent.

This submission is to be associated with Baronial Guard

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 20:28:58
I would be astonished to find overall charges in period heraldry of the same tincture as what they surmount. Tellingly, Parker writes:

Surmounted by: a term used when a bearing is placed over another of a different tincture.
(Yes, I've brought this up a couple of times before, but for various reasons the question has never reached our Sovereigns.)

[Much later:] My argument above may be true, but unless our Sovereigns were moved by it to seek overturning a clear precedent--which seems to me unlikely in this case--it is irrelevant, as conceded in my own response to this post.

Madoc Arundel (Garnet) at 2018-03-13 08:32:33
Concur. It's much the same as a charge sharing tincture with part of the field, which - while permitted when it does not hinder identification - has fairly stringent judgment calls in the past. There is a resubmission on another letter that had been previously returned because the bend sinister was up against the same tincture on a checky field. It had been returned for redraw to get the edges touching checks of the opposing tincture.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-03-13 10:04:26
From SENA A3B4aCharges that are touching, either sustained or maintained, do not have to have good contrast with each other, though they must retain identifiability ... This is also true of overall charges and the charge or charges they overlie.
I believe that so much of the charge overlies the fess that identifiability is hampered.

Thomas de Groet at 2018-03-17 13:33:42
Not so. Consider from the Florentine armorial available scanned from the Bayerische StaatsBibliothek the following devices:

Bonarli and Bonciani http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00001424/images/index.html?id=00001424&groesser=&fip=193. 174.98.30&no=&seite=83

Buongiovanni http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00001424/images/index.html?id=00001424&groesser=&fip=193. 174.98.30&no=&seite=93

Capo in Sacchi http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00001424/images/index.html?id=00001424&groesser=&fip=193. 174.98.30&no=&seite=103

Feducci http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00001424/images/index.html?id=00001424&groesser=&fip=193. 174.98.30&no=&seite=137

If you need more examples, I can provide.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-03-17 15:42:51
The problem with most of the examples is that the overall charge is not a complex animate charge, but an ordinary.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-17 18:54:37
My apologies. I should have been wary enough to say "core-style period heraldry", knowing that the late-period Italians have different standards.

In any case, only Bonarli among the examples has an overall charge of the same tincture as what it surmounts--and that only half.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-19 19:41:04
I had not consulted (but should have) http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A3B4b, called to our attention by Sable Crane below, nor had I searched out the examples he adduces of Basil Dragonstrike's and the Caidan Academy of Archers's registrations, nor Bordure's of Mabre Gardiner's, clearly establishing that for the College an overall charge may be of precisely the same tincture as the charge it overlies.

I have accordingly edited my comment to which this replies. And I add my concurring belief that the fess and sea-serpent here are both clearly identifiable, all that is required by the precedent.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:26:05
Agree with Gerard that a charge should not overlie another of the same tincture. Perhaps one of the charges could be changed to Or. Don't see any conflicts with those.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-03-19 14:39:58
I disagree that identifiability is at issue. SENA permits overall charges to share tincture with the charges they overlie. SENA A3B4b states: "Similarly, when a primary charge and an overall charge that overlies it share a tincture or have poor contrast (which will generally be true), the identity of the primary charge and the overall charge must remain clear." The parts that make the serpent identifiable are the head and tail. These parts are almost completely on the field. The parts that make a fess wavy identifiable are the wavy lines at top and bottom of the fess. Those are clearly seen on either side of the serpent and within the void created by the serpent.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-03-19 14:45:08
Consider http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=65357

* Mabre Gardiner. Badge. (Fieldless) A crescent inverted surmounted by an arrow fracted in chevron inverted argent.

The only comment on the September 2016 LOAR was: Please advise the submitter to draw the arrow larger.

http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/09/16-09lar.html

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-03-19 16:09:13
Also:

Basil Dragonstrike. Badge. (Fieldless) A cutlass and overall a skull argent.
"The degree of overlap between these two charges is acceptable as both maintain their identifiability. As noted in the September 2006 registration of Sondra van Schiedam's badge:
Several commenters recommended returning this badge for using an overall charge on a fieldless badge. We routinely allow overall charges on fieldless badges where the area of intersection is small, which is not the case in this submission. However, the November 1992 Cover Letter, where the current standard for acceptability of such overall charges was set, Laurel stated:
I've therefore decided not to implement a comprehensive ban on fieldless badges with overall charges. I will be returning cases where the underlying charge is rendered unidentifiable, per Rule VIII.3; this will include the most egregious cases of overall charges (e.g. A pheon surmounted by a hawk's head). But this can be done as an interpretation of the current Rules, and needn't involve a new policy. In cases where identifiability is maintained -- where one of the charges is a long, slender object, and the area of intersection small -- overall charges will still be permitted in fieldless badges.
The primary concern is identifiability. The charges in this badge maintain their identifiability, though the area of overlap is larger than we normally allow, and thus the badge is registerable.
Similarly, the charges in this badge maintain their identifiability and are therefore registerable."
(http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/01/08-01lar.html)
(http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=4618)

and

Caid, Kingdom of. Badge for Caidan Academy of Archers. (Fieldless) Four crescents conjoined in saltire horns outward and overall two arrows in saltire argent.
"Caidan Academy of Archers is a generic identifier."
(http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/12/08-12lar.html)
(http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=7412)

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-03-19 20:08:25
There is also the problem of conflict....
Vilhelm Torbiornsson
The following device associated with this name was registered in September of 2014 (via Drachenwald):
Vert, a fess urdy argent.
1 DC for the addition of the overall charge. No difference granted between urdy and wavy.


7: Sofia Speranza -Resub Name & Resub Device

Purpure, three suns argent eclipsed sable between two chevronels and three roses argent.

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Culture (Venice, late period) most important.

Sofia: Present in the List of names from La Virgine (Academy of St Gabriel, Late Period Italian Women's Names: Venice - http://medievalscotland.org/jes/Nuns/Venice.shtml)

Speranza: Present in the list of names of the tax census of Florence, 1427 (Academy of St Gabriel, Italian Names from Florence 1427, Alphabetical patronymic list - https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ferrante/catasto/pater.txt)

Item was previously returned due to old forms.

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-03-11 08:01:17
Docs check out, no conflicts. Lovely name!

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-03-11 09:52:34
I've got the patronym nailed down to Venice, but in the 15th century. The `Alla Chiesa di S. Marina' section, PDF p. 375, col. 2 lists `sier Zuan Speranza' in Googlebook `Delle inscrizione Veneziane di Emmanuele Antonio Cicogna, vol. 6, 1853. See the two images. https://books.google.com/books?id=Dl4ir7fjzesC

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:26:34
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-03-09 13:21:37
I would lean towards considering this a chevron voided instead of two chevronels, with a blazon something like:

Purpure, on a chevron voided between three roses three suns argent eclipsed sable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 21:14:26
Do we allow charges on voided ordinaries? I'm finding minimal evidence of within/on a (chevron/fess/pale/pall/bend/bend sinister) voided in the O&A, namely, Gwenfrewi yr Arabus's device (Aug 1979), Azure, within a pale voided, a plate and a wolf passant, all between in chief two estoiles of four straight and four wavy points, all argent and Sabrina the Insouciant's, (Aug 1979), Argent, within a bend sinister voided azure, between two forget-me-nots proper three hearts bendwise gules. Has three decades altered our standard here?

Not entirely on point, but the closest precedent I could find, was http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/01/15-01lar.html#74, Paitin Todd, Azure, on a cross of Toulouse five musical notes Or:

This device submission was pended on the August 2014 Letter of Acceptances and Returns for more research to find whether there is period evidence of such a framing of charges by voided crosses. As no such evidence was found, this device must be returned per SENA A1.
(As I had to confirm, a cross of Toulouse is voided by definition.)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:27:05
Agree that the chevronels ought to be thicker. Doing that will require that both the roses and the suns to be made smaller. No conflicts found.

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-03-23 15:26:53
Closer to this?

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-23 19:20:13
That's too far in the opposite direction for my comfort; I'd make them half or two-thirds that thick, making them twice or thrice the submitted width, and allowing the suns to grow. (And/or to be edged in white, because the current black disappears into the field. I believe this is a permitted interpretation of a line drawing.) Consider the registered device of Músa-Sunnifa, image below from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=71301, accepted without comment. (See also the history in the headmatter there.)

And having looked at how our Sovereigns blazoned that, I propose reblazoning here:

Purpure, in chevron three suns argent eclipsed sable between two chevronels, all between three roses argent

1: Image 1


8: Zahira de la Sara -Resub Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in October of 2012, via the Outlands.

Per chevron azure and argent, three suns or and a natural sea turtle vert.

former submission returned for revision due to a blazonability issue.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-09 20:46:51
The registered "full" form of the name is <Zāhira de la Sara>, but I believe that gives OSCAR problems.

This would seem to be a New Device from Laurel's perspective although a re-resubmission to the Kingdom: https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=65126, https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=77366, and that doesn't count what happened in the Outlands (where her name started), if anything. I have no idea of the proper labeling for this situation. [LATER: I am told by Edelweis, Drachenwald's Submission Herald, that "Kingdom returns are marked 'new' when resubmitting. Only Laurel returns are marked 'resub'". So this remains New for purposes of the College.]

(I do commend submitter for her persistence, and believe this version is registerable.)

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-10 02:43:42
Do the three suns need to be blazoned one and two and bring up SENA Unity of Arrangement issues? Or will the per chevron division provide an escape from the Unity of SENA?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-11 01:02:36
Blast, we missed that, twice! Yes, that's the required blazon, and yes, it's a problem. In evidence, http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/11/17-11lar.html#244, adding the words emphasized (by me) below to the blazon of Dagrún Bjarnardóttir's returned device from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=79272, first image below: Per chevron rayonny azure and Or, three mullets of seven points one and two argent and a brown bear rampant proper maintaining a spear gules.

One fix is to put the suns in fess, like those in Ana de Vuallachia's returned device at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=76866, second image below, which did not incur a Unity complaint, but was returned

for blurring the distinction between charge groups. While charges on either side of a field division are typically co-primary, and while three charges above a per chevron line of division are in fess by default, the relative size between the tree and the escarbuncles is significant enough that they appear to be primary and secondary. Upon resubmission, the submitter is advised to make the line of division shallower, and increase the size and thickness of the escarbuncles. [Emphasis added.]
I believe lining up submitter's suns in fess with very little enlargement will finally make this idea registerable. (The line of division is already about as shallow as necessary, but could be made slightly more so.) The blazon would remain unchanged from that submitted.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-11 03:26:03
Then the submitter will know the bliss of Unity that SENA brings ;)

Elena Wyth (Bordure) at 2018-03-23 15:02:02
So, along these lines?

Does this end up catching the same charge group issue?

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-23 18:56:51
Thank you very much!

I think the size disparity in the black and white may be INsignificant enough to pass, but I don't like to require submitter to bet on it.

Had I the skill, I would be more comfortable making the division yet shallower (while being careful to observe the Rule on Chevrons) so the tortoise became just a little smaller, and making the suns' outer edges Or rather than sable. (This is, I believe, an allowed difference between the two versions.) The edges now blend into the azure field, so that those in the line drawing look larger.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-03-18 16:27:25
No conflicts found.


In service,

Elena Wyth

Bordure


OSCAR counts 1 Name, 2 Devices and 6 Badges. There are a total of 9 items submitted on this letter.

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