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Northshield ILoI dated 2018-02-22

Greetings unto Honourable Lord Iohannes Glenfidanus, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield February Internal Letter. Comments are due by March 20, 2018.

1: Brice Davidson -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2016, via Northshield.

Gules, a bend sinister wavy argent, an open book and a quill Or

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-02-22 19:57:45
Suggested blazon: Gules, a bend sinister wavy argent between an open book and a quill Or.

Possible conflict:
Eórann Maguire. The following device associated with this name was registered in October of 2000 (via Trimaris):
Gules, a bend sinister wavy argent between two quatrefoils Or.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-24 19:22:56
Concur with that reblazon.

I believe Eórann is indeed a conflict, with only 1 DC for type. (A very different result than any modern estimation of adequate difference, but this is one place where the explaining herald must carry out the College's educational function.)

I think Gules, a bend sinister wavy between an open book and a quill Or is clear of all conflict, but I'm frequently rubbish on such searches.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 13:59:44
This is a quill pen. A quill is a feather with all its vanes stripped off, used as a spool for thread. The bend sinister would profit with the wavy lines being drawn with a shorter wavelength and a greater amplitude. No conflicts found. Agree with Magnus' blazon tweak.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-26 11:42:38
Except it needs to be

Gules, a bend sinister wavy argent between an open book and a pen Or

as you note. (Apologies for missing that before.)

Konrad Mailander (Goldstreitkolb) at 2018-02-27 08:32:42
Due to the unevenness of the drawing of the bend I did not think "bend wavy sinister" when I looked at this. I saw a "stream throughout bendwise sinister" at first, though lacking internal details.

Now that may partly be because I recently looked at the Pic Dic entry on Stream for a different submission.

http://mistholme.com/dictionary/stream/

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-27 18:26:31
Looking at it with my head tilted, I do see that the bend is indeed a bit uneven--which would be a Good Thing if a stream were intended. Whether it's enough of a Bad Thing to worry about for a bend, I don't know. It's certainly in line with the unsophistication of the submission as a whole.


2: Daine Forrester -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Daine Found in Family Search:

Daine Boolard, M, Date 06 Jan 1593, Place London,England, Batch # M03210-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKG2-W5S)

Forrester Found in Family Search:

Sarath Forrester, F, Date 12 May 1606, Place London, England, Batch B02101-8 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRF4-XZV)

Name Comments:

Christian Jorgensen af Hilsonger at 2018-02-23 02:20:43
Docs check out. No conflict found

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2018-02-23 18:47:51
I think it says David, not Daine (snippet attached).

For completeness, I also checked the surname cite, and it's correct. (It has Forrister for the dad, but Forrester for the daughter. And yes, it says Sarath, not Sarah: compare Elizabeth a few lines down.)

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-24 19:26:11
You may well be right about <David>, but if so it's a fourth version of final D along with the three on "married" in the same snippet.

Fortunately Ragged Staff has (below) found a workaround.

Seraphina Delphino (Ragged Staff) at 2018-02-23 23:00:56
Daine is a surname in "16th Century Gloucestershire Names" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/late16.html Daine has 1 documented instance as a surname.

Precedent allows for surnames to be used as given names in late period English.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:00:14
Docs check out.


3: Eldgrímr Ulfkarl -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Eldgrímr is a masculine given name found in Geirr Bassi on p 9

Ulfkarl is a constructed Norse descriptive byname using the following elements as found in the Vikinganswerlady.com:

<Ulf-> as in Ulfgeirr (see Úlfarr: The first element Úlf- is identical to Old Icelandic úlfr, "wolf".)(http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml#u)

<Karl> found in Geirr Bassi on p 12

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 20:49:37
I believe this will need the form Eldgrímr úlfr karl. SENA allows "...double bynames in Old Norse are permitted if both can reasonably describe the same person."
Viking Answer Lady Webpage
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml
s.n. Úlfarr- The first element Úlf- is identical to Old Icelandic úlfr, "wolf".
s.n. Karl- Found both as a personal name and as a by-name in Old Danish, Old Swedish, and OW.Norse as Karl. From the OW.Norse noun karl "free man."

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-01 21:59:29
Or <Eldgrímr Úlfr Karl> if preferred.

But don't we have to say where <Úlfr> is attested as a byname? It might be the first occurrence in the O&A.

(Interestingly, <Úlfkarl> looks to have a much better chance as a constructed given name, given the number of attested names with <Úlf-> as a prototheme and others with <-karl> as a deuterotheme.)

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 22:20:27
Thyræ úlfr This name was registered in January of 2006 (via the Outlands).

And commentary for the February 2011 registered Eiríkr úlfr Þorisson.
http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=15518

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-02 02:47:44
Not commentary, headmatter, visible to all (including me). Thank you!

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 23:11:23
Ulfkarl as a byname looks to mean wolf free man. That either makes no sense or is a claim to be a supernatural creature. If you want to create a new Old Norse given name, I direct you to the Viking Answer Lady who frequents LoI commentary. Gunnvor can tell you what can be done with it.


4: Emerenciana Ariaenssen -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for Holland.

Emerenciana is a Dutch feminine given name found in "Names from Antwerp, 1443-1561" by Sara L. Uckelman and Kym Banoczi (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/dutch/plaiser.html)

Ariaenssen is a surname found in Family Search:

Lijntien, Father - Gerrit Ariaenssen, 29 Apr 1620, Christening, NETHERLANDS, Batch C90173-4 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1HG-346)

Name Comments:

Christian Jorgensen af Hilsonger at 2018-02-23 02:28:02
docs checked. no conflict found

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:00:38
Docs check out.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 20:02:40
Emerenciana is dated to 1541 in the cited source.


5: Eyfriðr Matthiasdóttir -New Name & New Device

Sable, between a coney sejant and a closed book palewise argent a pale pily-barry purpure and argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Eyfriðr is a Norse feminine given name found on the Viking Answer Lady website at (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#e)

"For the first element Ey- see above (Eybjorg). For the second element -fríðr see above (Áfríðr). A short-form of names in Fríð-, -fríðr is Fríða."

Eybjorg - "The first element Ey- (or before a vowel, Eyj-) is of uncertain origin but may derive from *auja, "fortune, gift." The Cleasby-Vigfusson dictionary states that while the second element -ey may be related to the word for island, from Primitive Scandinavian *awió, when it appears as the first element Ey- or Eyj- then the word comes from a different root."

Áfríðr - "The second element -fríðr is from the OW.Norse adjective fríðr "beautiful" in the original sense of "beloved" and related to the OW.Norse verb frjá "to love". This name is found in Old Swedish as Afridh. Runic forms include the nominative forms afiriþ, afriþ, afriþ, af×riþ, (a)friþr, ifriþ, ifriþr and the accusative form afriþi. A short form of names in Fríð-, -fríðr is Fríða."

Matthiasdóttir is a Norse patronymic. Submitter indicated it means Mattew's daughter according to the Viking Answer Lady website.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:01:25
Given name checks out. I find nothing closer than Matheus at the cited website.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 19:56:04
The given name is at the source cited under s.n. Eyfríðr.

Matheus is listed in Geirr Bassi page 13. Matheusdóttir is the form of this patronymic we register to mean Matthew's daughter.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-01 21:49:17
So <Eyfríðr Matheusdóttir> or <Eyfriðr Matheusdottir>.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 22:26:52
Yes one of those forms. Matthias should be English.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-03-19 16:23:08
Submitter is satisfied with a change to <Eyfríðr Matheusdóttir>

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-03-04 00:30:25
Lind col. 768 sn. Mathías seems to be saying that the earlier genitive case didn't add an extra s, but in later records the name became Mathíasar.
Mathias, genitive, Norway, 1338
Matþeas, genitive, Norway, 1346
Matthias, genitive, Norway, 1496.

The normalised Old Norse form of the patronymic would therefore be "Ma_thíasdóttir."

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-02-22 23:54:37
I'd go with: Sable, a pale per pale indented throughout argent and purpure between a coney sejant and a closed book palewise argent.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-24 19:37:01
Maister Iago's reblazon is clear, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

We have so far registered pily(-)barry only for fields, and that only 5 times, but I don't find it inappropriate for an ordinary.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-24 19:30:11
Of course the primary charge should be butch and bold. But does anybody else think this submission has gone just beyond registerability with how small its secondary charges are?

Or that a redraw should at least be suggested to the submitter?

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-02-26 15:16:23
I had that question myself when the submission came in. I wanted to hear what others had to say.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-02-28 06:24:16
The size of the secondaries should be fine. Consider the coneys in this submission which only garnered an artist's note: https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=76436

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-28 08:22:35
I cannot equate incurring an artist's note with "fine"; "passable", but not "fine".

I believe the submitter should be offered the chance to improve the emblazon before it hits her permanent file.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-02 14:47:08
Does this submission have a unified arrangement rules problem?
Is this ruling an isolated case? I don't find it referenced in LoARs since that date.
[July 2016 LoAR, R-Ansteorra]
Grainne inghean ui Mordha. Device. Per bend vert and argent, a threaded needle bendwise argent and a rabbit sejant proper.
This device is returned for violating SENA A3D2c, Unity of Posture and Orientation, which states "The charges within a charge group should be in either identical postures/orientations or an arrangement that includes posture/orientation" The charges here are not in a unified arrangement, as their orientations must be blazoned independently with the needle being bendwise and the rabbit in its default palewise orientation.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:02:33
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon, though I'd say that the pale is indented throughout purpure and argent.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-02-26 15:28:40
If we go with 'pily-barry' it would be based on the top tincture, so 'purpure and argent'; but if we treat it as 'per pale indented' the first tincture should be the one against the dexter side, so 'argent and purpure'.


6: Lars Wolf Blut -New Name Change From Holding Name

OSCAR NOTE: the old name was registered in October of 2007, via Northshield.

Old Item: Lars of Nordskogen, to be released.
Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

SENA Appendix A permits double given names for German naming

Scandinavian and German are compatible language groups according to SENA Appendic C

Lars 15th c Norway - St Gabriel Report 2532 (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/2532.txt)

Wolf "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497" by Sara L. Uckelman (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/nurnberg1497.html)

Wolff 5

Wolff 2

Wolf 1

Wolffel 1

Wollff 1

Blut "German Names from Rottweil, Baden-Württemberg, 1441" by Sara L. Uckelman (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/rottweilsur.html)

"Blu[v]t" - Transcribed for a v written on top of a u.

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:02:52
Docs check out.

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-02-25 20:07:09
On what is the statement "Transcribed for a v written on top of a u" based? And, how does it document removing the "v"?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-26 13:44:47
At http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/rottweil1441.html, from which the cited paper links (at "list of surnames"), "A letter in brackets indicates one which was superscripted above the previous letter", or (private communication from the author via FaceBook today, 2018-02-26) "an early form of umlauting." The headmatter here confusingly calls that "written on top of".

The author, Aryanhwy Sans Repose, says further, "It's u with a v over it, not u-umlaut, though you could probably argue for the umlaut as a later development. The form with no diacritic is not supported."

Given that our system can't cope with "u with a v over it", <Blüt> is arguable but <Blut> is undocumented. [Later: Make that "undocumented from that source". See below for other data.]

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-03-19 16:20:54
Submitter is satisfied with <Blüt> as an alternative to <Blut>.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 18:48:43
Lars and Wolf are given names in the source. Blut is a surname.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-01 21:46:05
No, Blu[v]t is a surname there. See above for what Sans Repose recommends doing about that.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 22:55:16
Well not exactly... see s.n. Blut dates it to 1349 in Brechenmacher Volume 1 page 166.

See also [October 2007 LoAR A-Atenveldt]
Johann Wolf Blut. Name change from Johann Blut.
You might let him know that the surname Blut is from Middle High German bluot, `flower' (Brechenmacher, I:166).

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-03-19 16:10:20
A slight correction on Johann Wolf Blut: This name was registered in June of 1995 (via Atenveldt).


7: Luca McGregere -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Lewis MacGregor(1/1976)

Azure, a sheaf of arrows and on a chief embattled Or two coneys and a compass rose azure

Submitter desires a masculine name.

The source for both name elements is "Names from 13th Century Scottish Parliamentary Records" by Alys Mackyntoich (Alissa Pyrich)(http://heraldry.sca.org/names/Namesfrom13thCenturyScottishParliamentaryRecords.html)

Luca is a masculine given name dated to 1248

Modernized Form - Luke

Form Found in the Records - Luca

Years Found - 1248

McGregere is a Gaelic-origin byname

Modernized Form - MacGregor

Form Found in the Records - McGreghere, <McGregere>

Years Found - 1293

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:03:15
Docs check out.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 18:20:45
The name has to be expanded to MacGregere as scribal abbreviation Mc- expands to Mac- for registration per the September 2013 Cover Letter. No conflict found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-03-01 21:45:11
So <Luca MacGregere>.

(Interestingly, "elements registered via the legal name allowance are exempt" from such expansion: http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/05/08-05lar.html s.n. Godfrey McKnight.)

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 23:00:53
Yes I know the Legal Name Allowance is Rules as Written and I cite it if that is what the submitter wants. This doesn't keep me from secretly wishing some evil despot would spray it with something banned by international treaties.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 23:01:58
That appears to be the spelling needed for registration.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-02-23 00:01:33
A default sheaf has 3 items, and we should specify the relative positions of the charges on the chief. We should also give the posture of the coneys - Mistholme says sejant is the default, but it's not listed in the Glossary of Terms and recent practice has been to blazon the posture.

Reblazon: Azure, a sheaf of five arrows and on a chief embattled Or a compass rose between two coneys sejant azure.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-24 19:50:25
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2015/05/15-05lar.html#16,Aelis de la Rose: "Please advise the submitter that while the rays of a compass rose may overlap the outer ring, they should not extend beyond it, with the exception of the northmark."

Presumably the submission would incur no worse than a similar artist's note, but perhaps a redraw can be obtained before the XLoI, correcting the bottom ray and perhaps slightly enlarging the charge?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-25 14:03:42
Agree with Iago's blazon. No conflicts found.


8: Mathghamhain mac Douglase -New Name

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Mathghamhain - Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) nominative form found in Index of Names in Irish Annals: Mathgamain / Mathghamhain by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) (https://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Mathgamain.shtml)

Douglase - is found in "Surnames of Scotland" by Black, p 218, s.n. Douglas

"q.v. Dawgleiss 1540, Dogles 1633, Douglace 1504, <Douglase> 1429, . . . "

SENA Appendix C: Early Modern Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic are in the same naming group. Both can be mixed with English

mac = son of

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-02-23 06:36:58
But you cannot mix Gaelic mac with Scots Douglase in the same name phrase.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-02-23 19:42:28
With Douglase having been identified as a surname in its own rights in 1429, adding the `son of' to it wouldn't be appropriate at all would it? I'm asking for clarification purposes.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-02-24 15:32:16
What I find indicates Douglas is an English given name and a Scots locative byname. No evidence of the use of Douglas as a given name in Gaelic was found. You need that evidence to use mac with it as a Gaelic or Anglicized Gaelic byname.

I would expect some spelling of Douglaseson to be the form using the English given name with a marked patronymic meaning son of Douglase.

If the mac is dropped, the byname could be considered an unmarked locative in Scots or unmarked patronymic in English.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-03-19 16:18:21
Submitter is going to ponder the surname before resubmitting, when he gets home from Ireland.


9: Sesilia Bjornardottir -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Norse) most important.
Culture (Norse) most important.

All name elements are found in Geirr Bassi

Sesilia is a feminine given name found on page 14

Bjornardottir is a patronymic using Bjorn (pg 8) and patronymic construction form described on pg 18.

Name Comments:

Conrad von Zollern [Tiramisu HI] (Conrad von Zollern) at 2018-02-27 19:15:27
No conflicts found. I have no issues with this name's elements, construction or documentation. Sesilia has been registered previously, but I find no Bjornardottir previously registered. Shouldn't this be the more common (and previously registered) Bjornsdottir?

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-03-01 17:56:41
Bjǫrn + dóttir forms Bjarnardóttir. The father's name goes to the genitive spelling to make a patronymic in Old Norse.

Bjornsdottir is late period Swedish. No conflict found.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-03-04 00:37:48
Does the submitter want Bjarnardóttir or Bjornsdottir? Like Magnus noted, they're two different time periods, and it would be possible to document the byname in Norway, meaning the name would still be Norse, but not Old Norse.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2018-03-19 16:16:42
Submitter would accept Bjornsdotttir.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-03-19 17:26:52
OK! How about...

Lind col. 187 sn. Cecilia
Secilia, Iceland, 1477
Sescilia, Iceland, 1479
Cesilie, Norway, genitive case, 1427
Sessiliu, Iceland, genitive case, 1397
I think that'd give us an interpolated "Sesilia"?

And for Biorns-
asæ biornsdotter, and
torgunno biorns dottor, (dative case) 1465
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=17393&s=n&str=Biorns%dot%)
Asaa Biorns d. 1422
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=12829&s=n&str=Biorns%dot%)

Gunder Bjørnsen, 1545
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=17744&s=n&str=Bj%rns%)
Gunar Bjørnsen og Berthe Bjørns Datter, 1570 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=17986&s=n&str=Bj%rns%)

That might be enough for Bjorns-, certainly it would be enough for Bjørns- in the 16th century.

and -dottir:
Sigrid Nilsz dottir, 1541
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=8936&s=n&str=%dottir)
Gwnbiørg andersdottir, 1522 (accusative, I think?)
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=17579&s=n&str=%dottir)
maritte nilss dottir, 1542
(http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=17707&s=n&str=%dottir)


Thus ends the February Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 7 Names, 1 Name Change and 3 Devices. There are a total of 11 items submitted on this letter.

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