SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

Ansteorra ILoI dated 2018-01-31

Greetings from Asterisk. Enjoyed meeting some of you at Round Table

1: Ingriðr Bjørnsdottir -New Name & New Device

Per pale embattled argent and gules, a bear rampant sable and a tree blasted argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language (Norse) most important.
Culture (10th - 14th Century) most important.

Ingriðr - is a feminine Old Norse given name. Geirr Bassi attests two instances of the accented form Ingriðr pg 12

Ingifriðr, Ingiriðr, Ingriðr found in the Viking Answer Lady - Old Norse Womens names - (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml)

Ingrid found in Withycombe, pg 162 - "Ingrid is a feminine Old Norse name"

Bjørnsdottir - Bjorn - From OW.Norse bjorn, which in turn derives from Primitive Scandinavian "bernuR, bear". An extremely common name in West Scandinavia, originally derived from a by-name meaning "bear". Viking Answer Lady (Http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml)


/>

Bjorn - Geirr Bassi pg 8: 42 instances of the name used in Scandinavia. Bjorn can be found in the Academy of St Gabriel report 2935

(http://www.panix.com/s-gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?2935+0)

dottir - meaning daughter of of Bjorn (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensnames.shtml#b) s.n. <Bjorn>

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:06:23
Looks OK.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-02-03 03:16:48
Does the submitter want Ingriðr or Ingrid (in the documentation)?

Lind col. 638 sn. Ingiriðr
Ingrid_, Ingeridh_, Norway, 1454.
Inghridr, Inghridhr, Iceland, 1432

As the submitter has specified 10-14th century Norse, I should point out the following dated forms:
Ingiriðh_, Norway, 1364 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=3914&s=n&str=%ngiri%)
Ingiridh_, Norway, 1393 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=543&s=n&str=%ngiri%h)
Ingiridh_, Norway, 1390, 1398 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=2780&s=n&str=%ngiri%h http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=2830&s=n&str=%ngiri%h)
Ingeriid_, Norway, 1340 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=8295&s=n&str=%ngeriid%)

Not Norse, but still Scandinavian, there is in SMP sn. Ingridh
(http://arkiv.sprakochfolkminnen.se/Display.aspx?form=smp-sok&item=/Nordiskt/Variationsnamn/Kvinnonam n/Ingridh/ingridh.pdf)
Ingridhe, 1404 (again, too late for the submitter's time period of interest)
and lots of examples of Latin Ingridis.

Lind col. 145 sn. Biǫrn has for examples in the genitive case:
Biørns, Norway, 1368 (checking Lind's source, it appears in the patronymic of Lafrinze Biørnsson http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=6832&s=n&str=Bi%C3%83%C2%B8rn s%)

The February 2016 LoAR sn. Sarra Olafsdottir
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/02/16-02lar.html#229
"In addition, ffride wlffsdotter documented the -dottir spelling using Diplomatarium Norvegicum. Therefore, this name can be registered."
(So, hopefully, I don't need to re-document -dottir patronymics in Norwegian again.)

Which gives us a few options for a lovely 14th c. Norwegian name, sadly none of them precisely match the submitter's spelling:
Ingiriðh_ Biørnsdottir
Ingiridh_ Biørnsdottir
Ingeriid_ Biørnsdottir

If she's willing to be more flexible on the time period, then there is also:
Ingrid_ Biørnsdottir
Inghridr Biørnsdottir
Inghridhr Biørnsdottir

And if the submitter is OK with mixing Norse with Swedish:
Ingridhe Biørnsdottir
Ingridis Biørnsdottir.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-02-01 08:23:29
The tree has enough root showing that we should make this: Per pale embattled argent and gules, a bear rampant sable and a tree blasted and eradicated argent.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:07:05
Strongly agree that the tree is blasted and eradicated. No conflicts found.


2: Kilian MacRaith -Resub Appeal of Kingdom Return of Device

OSCAR thinks the name is registered as Kilian Macraith in January of 2005, via Ansteorra.

Quarterly argent and vert, a Celtic cross counterchanged between two tortoises vert

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:07:22
No conflicts found.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-02-01 20:24:38
This appears as a simple resubmission, rather than an appeal or resubmitted appeal. The reason for return has been fixed.
[April 2017 LoAR, R-Ansteorra] Kilian Macraith. Device. Quarterly argent and vert, a Celtic cross counterchanged between two tortoises vert.
This device is returned for violating SENA A2C1 which states that "Elements must be drawn in their period forms." This depiction of a Celtic cross with thin untapered arms does not match the ones we are currently registering and as such would need to be documented to be registerable. The submitter provided an image of a 10th century cross with reduced tapering of the arms. However, it does not match the submitted depiction. There is some visible tapering of the longer arm and all arms are significantly wider than the annulet portion.

1: Image 1

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2018-02-02 15:19:46
Previous submission can be seen at:
https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=71050

Thus, this is a resubmission; it is not an appeal because the emblazon has been changed.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-04 22:00:35
Fixes the cause for return and much improves the size of the secondary charges.


3: Llewellyn Brydydd -New Name & New Device

Azure, a gauntlet fesswise grasping a drawstring bag argent

No major changes.
Language (Welsh) most important.
Culture (16th Century) most important.

http://www.panix.com/.../public-bin/showfinal.cgi/2254.txt leuan lloyd brydydd dated to 1406

Llewellyn in "Late Sixteenth Century Welsh names" by Talan Gwynek

https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/talanWelsh16.html

Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru http://welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html has (s.v. "prydydd"), 1547 WS [A Dictionary in Englyshe and Welshe, ed William Salesbury, 1547], prydydd, a ryme maker. Amongst citations going from the 12/13C through to 1803. It also says: Fe'i ceir fel epithet, e.e. Meilyr Brydydd, leuan Brydydd, Hir. Cf. hefyd Prydydd y Moch, y Prydydd Bychan. [It is found as an epithet, e.g. Meilyr Brydydd (Maelir the Poet), leuan Brydydd Hir (leuan the Long Poet). Cf. also Prydydd y Moch (The Pig's Poet), y Prydydd Bychan, (the Little Poet)]

The "Brydydd" portion is the most important to the name. Thank you

Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:10:07
Docs check out.

Coblaith Muimnech at 2018-02-03 01:58:03
Every Academy of Saint Gabriel Report has a persistent URL that appears right at the top. The one for the report cited for "Brydydd" in the submission is http://www.s-gabriel.org/2254. Unlike the link included in the summary, it should always lead to the report.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-02-06 03:50:47
Academy of St. Gabriel reports are no photocopy needed but a summary is required for the name element submitted with its reference. "The last element in your name, <y Prydydd> means "the poet, the composer". The word <prydydd> was pronounced PR@-d@dh, where dh represents the sound of <th> in <this>. We have found several examples of this byname in period Welsh names:…Ieuan lloyd brydydd (1406) [4]…Welsh occupational bynames normally do _not_ include the definite article <y> when they directly follow the given name of the person they describe; but usually do include it when they are used without the given name… Reference [4] Roberts, Glyn, "The Anglesey Submissions of 1406" in _Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies_, vol. XV pp.39-60."

Device Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:10:19
No conflicts found.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-02-08 17:36:25
I will admit that the bag shape is a little.... suggestive.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-08 21:15:22
Given that "by the balls" is well-known in current usage, an explicit statement about the suggestion seems to me worth including when sending this up.

Of course submitter may not intend the allusion and prefer to redraw. A more prominent drawstring--and/or showing both ends of it--would help reduce the current anatomical clarity.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2018-02-08 21:19:50
I can confirm that the bag itself is directly from the Pic Dic and is based on a period image. If the anatomical allusion was intention, I do have to give them kudos as it made me chuckle. It could just as easily be seen as the Futurama meme "just take my money!".


4: Llewellyn Brydydd -New Alternate Name

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Hakon Gunnarsson Inn Grai

No major changes.
Language (Norse) most important.
Culture (The) most important.

Hakon - Geirr Bassi, p 11

Gunnarr - Geirr bassi, p10

-sson, dropping one "r" adding the suffix <-sson> to create a Patronimic, p17

Inn Grai - Geirr Bassi, p22

Alternate Name Comments:

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-02-01 15:10:29
Looks OK.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-02-04 22:05:55
We register "inn" lowercase, so <Hakon Gunnarsson inn Grai>.



OSCAR counts 2 Names, 1 Alternate Name and 3 Devices. There are a total of 6 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos