SCA Laurel Sovereign of Arms
Online System for Commentary and Response

Site News
LoIs
KLoIs
SENA
Prec
AH
Track
Sub Status

Name:

Password:

Create Account

MAIL ME my password.



SEARCH:

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]

Ansteorra ILoI dated 2018-01-07

I hope you have a joyous New Year

1: Aelia Zaridina Maliasene -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in July of 2016, via Ansteorra.

A celtic cross per bend sinister azure and argent

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 18:55:21
No conflict found. Celtic is capitalized.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 20:40:10
Mistholme shows an equal-armed Celtic cross here: http://mistholme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cross_celtic_equal.jpg. So is this an accepted cross?
Also, we need to state fieldless.
Suggested blazon: <Fieldless> an equal-armed Celtic cross per bend sinister azure and argent.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-07 20:55:31
We use round not angle brackets for '(Fieldless)', we capitalize the first letter of the blazon, and 'sinister' is missing from your blazon, so:

(Fieldless) An equal-armed Celtic cross per bend sinister azure and argent.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 21:02:44
Angle brackets can be interpreted as HTML codes that make OSCAR do new and interesting and unwanted things.

Celtic crosses can be Latin or equal armed.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-12 20:01:35
And on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2007/02/07-02lar.html s.n. Berenice of Coldedernhale we are told, "Whether or not the arms of an equal-armed Celtic cross are drawn potent is artistic license."

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:02:28
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's reblazon.


2: Aibhilín inghean Uí Briain -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Aífe Fael ingen Brénainn(7/2001)

Vert, a wolf statant guardant and on a chief embattled argent 3 palewise battleaxes sable

Sound most important.

Following websites were found while researching on St. Gabriel's site:

Aibhilín: http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aibhilin.shtml

Briain: http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Brian.shtml

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 21:00:14
Links work and documentation check. However, construction is not documented. Some notes on construction of women's names can be found here: http://heraldry.sca.org/names/resources/irishgaelic.html.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 21:09:23
It is a Gaelic Clan affiliation byname found in SENA under Appendix A: Patterns That Do Not Need Further Documentation by Language Group.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-09 15:22:58
Index of Names in Irish Annals: Aibhilín, Eibhilín by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aibhilin.shtml
Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) form: Aibhilín

Quick and Easy Gaelic Names by Sharon L. Krossa
http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/
The standard way to form a name using an Irish clan affiliation byname for women is:
<single given name> inghean Uí <eponymous clan ancestor's name (in genitive case & always lenited unless starting with a vowel)>

Index of Names in Irish Annals: Brian by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Brian.shtml
Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) genitive form: Briain

And adding the needed lenition gives Aibhilín inghean Uí Bhriain.

Closest found was Eibhlin ni Bhriain registered in January of 1993 (via the East).

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:03:00
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 21:14:58
I found a lot of close calls, but it looks clear to me.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-07 23:57:34
We spell out numbers, and the orientation should come after the axes.

Reblazon: Vert, a wolf statant guardant and on a chief embattled argent three battleaxes sable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-12 20:05:03
Except that palewise is default when there's three on a chief, and therefore disappears, right?

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-09 02:47:53
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:03:45
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's reblazon.


3: Cullen Kincaid -New Name & New Device

Per pale sable and argent, a chess rook counter changed

Submitter desires a masculine name.

The names of Cullen and Kincaid have all been documented on FamilySearch.org. Documents attached. Cullen is English and Kincaid is Scottish, and according to SENA, those cultures can be mixed.

There is more evidence of Cullen as a last name, but with the surname-as-given allowance of late period names, I believe it should suffice.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/18-17-46_Cullin_Kincaid_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/18-17-49_Cullin_Kincaid_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/18-17-50_Cullin_Kincaid_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/18-17-52_Cullin_Kincaid_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/18-17-54_Cullin_Kincaid_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-09 04:17:49
It helps to summarise what familysearch.org says about the names. Eg.

Elizabethe Cullen, married 1576, Yarmouth, Norfolk, England. Batch no. M15305-1
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXBY-TJ6)

James Kincaid, married 1587, Stirling, Scotland. Batch no. M11490-2
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYW8-V61)

The September 2012 Cover Letter notes:
"In general, family names documented in sixteenth century England may be used to create given names, even if they are of Scottish or Gaelic origin."
(http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/09/12-09cl.html)

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-09 15:30:57
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:04:08
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 21:55:58
Do chess pieces conflict with each other? If so, there's a conflict with Daniel de Neuf-Claire: "Per pale sable and argent, a single-headed chess knight counterchanged."
It may help that the the knight is single headed instead of double headed.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-08 00:08:28
We'll need an SC to clear this. Luckily, there's precedent (pre-SENA, but it should hopefully still apply):

[Considering 'Per pale Or and vert, a chess knight counterchanged.'] This device does not conflict with the badge of Gráca da Alataia, 'Per pale Or and vert, a chess pawn counterchanged'. The chess rook and the chess knight are both period charges and substituting one of these charges for the other does not seem to have been used as a cadency step in period, thus making them substantially different from one another. Therefore, although the chess pawn is not a period charge, it seems reasonable to also grant substantial difference between it and a chess knight. [Meadhbh of Calafia. April 2005 via Caid]

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 05:13:08
The SC issue with chess pieces has not been addressed under SENA so send it up for a ruling.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-11 23:31:44
I had checked with the SCA Heraldry Chat on this one and I *think* they mentioned it was clear because of the difference between a Rook and a Knight piece... but if we need to check, we need to check.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-12 02:52:54
The chess rook and the chess knight are different charges in period so there is at least a DC between them. This submission needs a Single Substantial Change of Type to clear it from Daniel de Neuf-Claire. I searched the precedents and found no rulings on SC for chess pieces under SENA, so there is no place to check. If you want a ruling from Wreath then send it up. I suspect there is an SC between them since both are period and they don't look similar.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-13 14:58:52
Someone had commented with this:

heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/04/05-04lar.rtf

IF you can open it, it says a knight and a rook are "substantially different".

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-13 15:33:20
Same citation as Maister Iago's above. More workable link, http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/04/05-04lar.html s.n. Meadhbh of Calafia.

The argument there seems to me as convincing under SENA's principles as under RfS.

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-13 15:33:23
That's the one I quote above.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-12 20:07:08
Fixing the tiny typo:

Per pale sable and argent, a chess rook counterchanged

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:04:39
No conflicts found.


4: Dalla Hróŏmarsdottir -New Name

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Dalla Ormarsdóttir(11/2006)

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Client requests authenticity for Viking circa 800-1000 AD.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Viking Names found in Landnámabók by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara l. Uckelman)

Name Comments:

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 21:42:26
I think we have a typo. The name should be: Dalla Hróðmarsdottir.
Construction is supported by Geirr Bassi, pages 17-18.
Docs check out.
Suggested conflict with Dalla Ormarsdóttir is, I think, a problem.
Per SENA, PN.3.C.2. Substantial Change to One Syllable: Names are substantially different if a single syllable between them (excluding articles and prepositions, such as de and the) is changed in both sound and appearance as described here. ... Two names are also substantially different if a syllable is substantially changed in sound and appearance. This means that the vowel and the consonant (or group of consonants) on one side of the vowel is different between the two names....
Essentially, you have "Hróð" versus "Or." You have a change in consonants on either side of the vowel, but no change in a vowel as well. Hopefully someone knows a precedent to clarify that rule because as I read SENA, this conflicts.

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2018-01-07 23:01:06
Well, technically Hróðmar has a long ó while Ormar has a short o, but somehow I doubt that the primarily-English-speaking CoH would consider vowel duration to be a difference.

I've never managed to wade my way through the name conflict rules, but I wonder: is there any allowance for a case like this, where the consonants on _both_ sides of the vowel have changed?

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-08 00:23:04
By the May 2013 Cover letter (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/05/13-05cl.html#4) it's a maybe:

Commenters agreed that at least in some cases, such changes are enough to make two names clear of conflict. When the sound of both consonant clusters is completely changed (so that neither the first cluster nor the second cluster share sounds between the two names), they should be clear. Examples of this would include Godric/Godwin, Catford/Radford, and Dulford/Muttford. Situations in which one of the two consonant cluster shares a sound with another will generally conflict, but might be clear of conflict on a case by case basis.
Since the syllables both contain an 'r' sound it really comes down to whether the 'r' in "Or" is considered a different sound than the 'hr' in "Hróð". Theoretically, it's equivalent to the 'Dulford/Muttford' example given, since it's voiced versus non-voiced, but since English doesn't distinguish non-voiced 'r' I have no idea how this would be decided.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-09 15:47:17
Viking Names found in Landnámabók by Aryanhwy merch Catmael
Dalla is a Old Norse woman's name.
Hróðmarr is a man's name.
Some names in Landnámabók date past 1000 into the 11th century. The name is authentic for Viking but may be slightly after the requested time period.


5: Diederick van Sitteren -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Dietrich von Stroheim(6/2011)

Per fess wavy sable and barry wavy argent and azure, a crescent argent and a demi-lobster issuant from base gules

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Sound most important.

Sources attached

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-19-27_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-19-29_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-19-31_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-19-32_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-19-34_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-09 04:23:47
So, to summarise:
Names from Dutch Records Between 1584-1585 by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) sn. Dierick:
Diederick Cornelissen Pharo
Diederick Vijgh

Maria Van Sitteren, christened 1619, Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands. Batch no. C00825-7
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBYT-3ZK)

SENA Appendix A for Dutch says that "van [locative]" with a lower-case v requires no further documentation.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:06:03
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-10 14:14:57
No conflict found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-12 20:21:54
To at least some of us who know the Tarot, this design is reminiscent of "The Moon", conveniently illustrated in both early 20th-c. and early 18th-c. versions at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_(Tarot_card) (scroll down). This is not relevant to registerability. However, it would be undesirable for submitter to be unaware that people may make the connection if he would prefer they not do so. I believe this should be checked out with him.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-13 14:59:46
The intent of the submitter was to emulate the Moon card, so no worries there!

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-13 15:34:08
Glad to know it!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:06:40
No conflicts found.


6: Elizabeta Maria dei Medici -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 2006, via Ansteorra.

Or, a cat and an elephant combattant sable; a bordure gules

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-08 00:27:05
We need to specify 'domestic' for the cat, and we don't use semicolons.

Reblazon: Or, a domestic cat and an elephant combattant sable, a bordure gules.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 18:18:32
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:07:19
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's reblazon.


7: Elizabethe Cadwyn -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Elizabeth Caton(1/2016)

Or, a fox passant contourny reguardant sable marked argent on a chief embattled sable three decrescents Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.
Language (Elizebethe Lillybet Cadwyn) most important.
Meaning most important.

Elizabethe: sn. Elizabeth. Elizabethe is dated to 1568 from Feminine Given Names in "A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Talan Guynek

https://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyAG.html

Cadwyn: found as Christian Cadwyn, christened 20 March 1580 in Credition, Devon, England Batch #C05074-1

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2018-01-07/13-16-54_Elizabeth_Cadwyn_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2018-01-07/13-16-55_Elizabeth_Cadwyn_name_doc_2.jpg

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-08 05:43:57
For Elizabethe this url worked for me, http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyAG.html Alternate url for Cadwyn is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-16 22:25:26
Since I'm currently retired, and the external submissions herald probably isn't, I'll supply fuller citations:

Elizabethe. Talan Gwynek, "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames, Part Two: The Names A-G", https://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyAG.html s.n. Elizabeth, <Elizabethe> 1568. (The URL in the headmatter, without the S, also works for me.)

Cadwyn. Christian <Cadwyn>, christened 20 Mar 1580, Crediton, Devon, England, C05074-1, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N591-26X. (Despite being that given in the site's citation instructions, the URL in the headmatter fails for me, too.)

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-09 01:48:08
Does the submitter want Elizebethe Lillybet Cadwyn, or Elizebethe Cadwyn?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:08:15
Docs check out. It's not clear to me whether or not she's trying to register the diminutive Lillybet. She can certainly use it as a diminutive with a registered Elizabethe.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 18:16:38
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:08:42
No conflicts found.


8: Hendrika van Sitteren -New Name & New Device

Argent, a wagon wheel sable and a ford proper

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

Sources attached

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-24-30_Hendrika_van_Sitteren_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-24-32_Hendrika_van_Sitteren_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-24-34_Hendrika_van_Sitteren_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-24-35_Diederick_van_Sitteren_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-24-37_Hendrika_van_Sitteren_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-09 04:44:12
Summarising, and using a different source for Hendrika:

Hendrika Johanszdr., married 1591 in Deventer, Netherlands.
City archive Deventer, Church records marriages 0723 Retroacta burgerlijke stand (DTB) Deventer, Deventer, archive 723, inventory number 106, Trouwboek (rood 28)
Summary here: https://www.openarch.nl/show.php?archive=dev&identifier=6181d361-1ee8-2fba-995a-bfd8489c371d&lang=en &six=1

The scan of book is here, but I can't find the entry? https://www.stadsarchiefdeventer.nl/zoeken-in-de-collecties/archieven?mivast=45&mizig=210&miadt=45&m iaet=1&micode=0723&minr=859220&miq=827081016&miview=inv2&milang=nl&utm_source=OpenArchieven&utm_med ium=browser&utm_campaign=OpenData

Maria Van Sitteren, christened 1619, Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands. Batch no. C00825-7
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBYT-3ZK)

SENA Appendix A for Dutch says that "van [locative]" with a lower-case v requires no further documentation.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:09:07
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 18:59:37
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:09:30
No conflicts found.


9: Joanna Watyn -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Jane Totten(1/2007), Jehanne du May (4/1994), John O'Diamain (10/1998)

Argent, within a bordure gyrrony of eight vert and purpure a poppinjay vert

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Joanna - variation of Joan. Feminine Given Names in "A Dictionary of English Surnames" - Joanna in 1279 in Freelove

Watyn - Example: "Mary Watyn" in "An Index to the 1332 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Lincolnshire, England"

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-08 05:27:51
The Watyn url is https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/LincLSR/BynU.html The Joanna url is http://heraldry.sca.org/names/reaneyHZ.html

Brigida von Muenchen (Purple Falcon) at 2018-01-15 21:50:53
Looks clear

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:09:53
Docs check out, thanks to Maridonna.

Device Comments:

Iago ab Adam at 2018-01-08 00:36:18
Reblazoning to put the primary charge first, fix some typos, and call the popinjay proper (vert detailed gules): Argent, a popinjay proper within a bordure gyronny of eight vert and purpure.

Unfortunately, the gyronny bordure runs afoul of SENA A3B3d: "Elements not already mentioned must have good contrast between their parts. These include fields or charges evenly divided into four parts other than quarterly or per saltire, fields or charges evenly divided into more than four parts of two different tinctures, and fields or charges unevenly divided into multiple parts of two different tinctures; all of these must have good contrast between adjacent parts of the field."

I suggest making the bordure either per saltire or quarterly.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 15:53:04
I find no conflicts with the suggested alternatives.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:10:36
No conflicts found. Agree with Iago's blazon.


10: Leandra Forte -New Name & New Device

Argent, a cross cotised azure overall a wolf rampant gules

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Language most important.

Leandra - Documentation found from the Academy of St Gabriel "Names from the 16th Century Venice"

Forte - Documentation from http"//Heraldry.sca.org "Names from 15th & 16th Century Pisa"

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-38-17_Leandra_Forte_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-38-19_Leandra_Forte_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-38-21_Leandra_Forte_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-38-22_Leandra_Forte_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-38-25_Leandra_Forte_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-08 05:11:28
Docs check out. Nice name.
Url for Leandra is http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/16thcvenice.html. Url for Forte is http://heraldry.sca.org/kwhss/2014/Juliana_de_Luna/Names_from_15th_and_16th_Century_Pisa.pdf

Brigida von Muenchen (Purple Falcon) at 2018-01-15 21:52:43
Looks clear. Closest I found was Leandra Fleur

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:11:01
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 12:36:50
No conflict found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2018-01-12 20:28:01
The rule-of-thumb check for "barely overall", seeing if the charge is identifiable with the layers flipped, probably fails. I suspect that in this case that rule is inappropriate; all charges are well-proportioned.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:11:22
No conflicts found.


11: Maridonna Benvenuti -New Alternate Name

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in February of 1998, via Ansteorra.

Scarlata Lanza

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

Both name elements are found in Armando Di Pasquale's "Palermo nel 1480. La popolazione del quartiere delia Kalsa", Edizioni Mori. Palermo. 1975. "Palermo in 1480, The population of the Kalsa quarter" Photocopies

Scarlata - #177, Scarlata di Manosseu, p 56

Lanza - #703, mastru Antoni Lanza, p 96 and #824, Cola lanza, p 105

To remain faithful to the original text Di Pasquale has almost always omitted punctuation. He capitalized the personal names, surnames, and place names and preserved the initial letters that were already capitalized. He also changed initial "i" to "j" when it was followed by a vowel, and changed the final "j" to "i". Lastly, the author added an apostrophe for modern usage to separate joined words in the original text.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-22-50_Scarlata_Lanza_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-22-52_Scarlata_Lanza_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-22-53_Scarlata_Lanza_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-22-55_Scarlata_Lanza_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-22-56_Scarlata_Lanza_name_doc_5.jpg

Alternate Name Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-08 05:03:49
Additional doc: Scarlata is found in `Feminine Names from 13th C Perugia: Alphabetical List' by Arval Benicoeur https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/perugia/perugiaFemAlpha.html

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-12 05:38:37
The culture and language desired is 15th C.(1480) Sicily. It's microscopic print on the PDF submission form.

Brigida von Muenchen (Purple Falcon) at 2018-01-15 21:53:42
Alternate name looks clear

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:11:45
Docs check out.


12: Mary Kateryn Corbet -New Name & New Device

Per pale sable and argent, two fleur-de-lis in pale counter-charged

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No changes.

The names of Mary, Kateryn, and Corbet have all been documented on FamilySearch.org

Documents attached

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-43-14_Mary_Kateryn_Corbet_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-43-15_Mary_Kateryn_Corbet_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-43-17_Mary_Kateryn_Corbet_name_doc_3.jpg
#4 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-43-19_Mary_Kateryn_Corbet_name_doc_4.jpg
#5 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/19-43-20_Mary_Kateryn_Corbet_name_doc_5.jpg

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-10 13:49:27
You have to include the Batch numbers.
FamilySearch Historical Records
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NY7C-CMQ
Mary Katherine Hammond Female Christening Date: 06 Aug 1592 Christening Place: WHATFIELD,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C06324-2

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6S7-S8D
Kateryn Symmes Female Christening Date: 23 Mar 1541 Christening Place: Steeple-Ashton, Wiltshire, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C15347-1

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRDW-J5N
Margaret Corbet Female Christening Date (Original): 15 JAN 1590 Christening Place: ST. CLEMENT'S, CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, ENGLAND
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C13559-9

Brigida von Muenchen (Purple Falcon) at 2018-01-15 21:55:02
Name looks clear.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:12:13
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 21:25:03
No conflict found. Suggested blazon: Per pale sable and argent, two fleurs-de-lys in pale counterchanged.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:12:43
No conflicts found. Agree with Magnus' blazon.


13: Miklos Nemeth -New Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Ansteorra LoI of September 30, 2012 as submitted.

Sable, an eagle displayed barry gules and argent within an orle Or

Suggested Alternate Blazon:

Sable, an eagle displayed barry gules and argent, armed, beaked and langued within an orle

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 19:05:13
Name registered as Nemeth Miklos December 2012.
This is not a New Device but resubmission of a kingdom return on Ansteorra ILoI - 2012-08-03
http://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=23886
and a second kingdom return on Ansteorra Kingdom ILoI - 2015-05-04
http://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=8&id=52443
No conflict found. Suggested blazon: Sable, an eagle barry gules and argent within an orle Or.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:13:25
No conflicts found.


14: Oddr Marsson -New Name & New Device

Per fess embattled gules and sable, in pale a sword fesswise reversed argent and an owl affronty Or

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Client requests authenticity for Viking circa 800-1000 AD.
Language most important.
Culture most important.

http"//www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/landnamabok.html

Viking Names found in Landnámabók by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman)

Both name parts are documented here

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 21:21:57
No conflict found.

Brian O'hUilliam (Sable Crane) at 2018-01-07 22:03:17
Docs check out.
Additionally, Oddr and Már are found on page 13 of Geirr Bassi.
Construction is supported on pages 17-18 of Geirr Bassi as Oddr Mársson. Precedent permits dropping accents if done uniformly.
No conflicts found.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2018-01-09 04:48:46
Lind col. 759 sn. Már shows the genitive is Más, but also has examples where it is "Mars," so I suppose it can be argued it's a manuscript spelling?

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:13:48
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 08:15:08
No conflict found. Suggested blazon: Per fess embattled gules and sable, a sword fesswise reversed argent and an owl affronty Or.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:14:31
No conflicts found. Agree with Magnus' blazon tweak.


15: Oddr Marsson -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

(Fieldless) A sword bendwise inverted argent and overall an owl affronty Or

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 08:01:35
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:14:55
No conflicts found.


16: Óengus mac Aoidh -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Áine inghean uí Shéaghdha(3/2015), Angus Mac Aeda (3/1998), Anneke MacAiodh (3/1984)

Per bend sinister vert and Or, a brown bear proper rampant regardant bearing a goblet argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.

Documentation attached: From Library Ireland and the Academy of St Gabriel

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-01-12_Oengus_mac_Aoidh_name_doc_1.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-01-14_Oengus_mac_Aoidh_name_doc_2.jpg
#3 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=2343/2017-12-26/20-01-15_Oengus_mac_Aoidh_name_doc_3.jpg

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 19:41:38
Conflict with Angus Mac Aeda registered in March of 1998 (via Artemisia).

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-07 20:32:19
How would we change the name so that it doesn't conflict? Addition of other clan names/family names?

Also, I've been informed that the name was to be Scottish, not Irish, so I need to look up new sources, as I was under the assumption that the name was Irish.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-07 20:51:01
http://heraldry.sca.org/names/Namesfrom13thCenturyScottishParliamentaryRecords.html

Angus is found here, the original spelling being Anegos in one of them.

Submitter has asked if adding a second patronymic would clear it of conflict?

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 20:58:29
A second generation patronymic will clear the conflict, but it must be checked for Relationship Conflict.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-10 08:45:24
Index of Names in Irish Annals: Óengus, Áengus / Aonghus by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Oengus.shtml
Middle Irish Gaelic (c900-c1200) nominative form: Óengus
1468.34 Oengus mac Alaxandair Meic Domnaill

Index of Names in Irish Annals: Áed / Aodh by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Aed.shtml
Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) genitive form: Aodha

[July 2009 LoAR, A-Artemisia] Caelainn inghean Aoidh.
Some commenters questioned whether the byname was correctly formed, or whether it should be inghean Aodha. Both Aoidh and Aodha are late-period genitive forms of Aodh. Woulfe, Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames, s.n. Mac Aoidh notes this as a variant of Mac Aodha (which is also a header), and gives M'Ee and M'Eye as late-period anglicized forms, showing that the Aoidh forms were in use at the end of our period.

Emma de Davyntre at 2018-01-11 23:36:03
The name is Scottish in origin, rather than Irish - we went through a bit of miscommunication on the language of the name - would the sources change much? There isn't a lot of Scottish documentation on the heraldry.sca page.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-12 03:02:42
The name is Gaelic not Scots. Both Ireland and Scotland used Gaelic. The only major source for Gaelic names in Scotland is the Book of Deer and a few others that Effric has unearthed. The Norse raids and wars with England destroyed most of Gaelic records in Scotland. The Book of Deer was probably looted by English invaders. So we use the Irish Annals as a substitute record for Gaelic names.
The introduction in these articles explains the situation of Gaelic names in Scotland.
https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/scottish.shtml
http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:15:32
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-08 07:56:48
No conflict found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:16:00
No conflicts found.


17: Ronan Fionn O'Dubhain -New Badge

OSCAR is unable to find the name, either registered or submitted.

Purpure, two stalks of barley in saltire and in chief a hop cone Or

Badge Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 19:45:00
No conflict found. Rónán Fionn Ó Dubáin is the registered name from October 2015.
This is not a New Badge but a resubmission from the Ansteorra Kingdom ILoI - 2017-11-21. The previous badge was withdrawn.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:16:31
No conflicts found.


18: Ruberto Valori -New Name & New Device

Per pale sable and gules, a lion rampant Or and on a chief embattled argent 3 crosses fleury gules

Sound most important.

Following websites came from research done on St Gabriel's site

Ruberto - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/ruberto.html

Valori - http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/familynames.html

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 20:29:29
Italian Given Names from the Online Tratte of Office Holders 1282-1532: Ruberto
http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/ruberto.html
The following data are found in Online Tratte of Office Holders 1282-1532, a project of Brown University, Rhode Island.
13th C: 1289 (1)
14th C: 1342 (1), 1343 (1), 1350 (1), 1352 (1), 1353 (1), 1354 (1), 1357 (1), 1358 (1), 1359 (1), 1361 (1), 1363 (1), 1364 (1), 1367 (2), 1368 (1), 1369 (2)

Italian Family Names from the Online Tratte of Office Holders 1282-1532 by Aryanhwy merch Catmael
http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/familynames.html
Valori: 1310, 1313, 1318, 1322, 1324-25, 1328-40.

No conflict found.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2018-01-08 05:18:00
What Magnus said. :)

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2018-01-07 19:52:07
No conflict found. Suggested blazon: Per pale sable and gules, a lion Or and on a chief embattled argent three crosses fleury gules.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2018-01-16 17:17:33
No conflicts found. Agree with Magnus' blazon touchup.



OSCAR counts 12 Names, 1 Alternate Name, 13 Devices and 3 Badges. There are a total of 29 items submitted on this letter.

[ Site News | LoIs | KLoIs | SENA | Prec | AH | Track | Sub Status ]


Site Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, Lewis Tanzos