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Northshield ILoI dated 2017-11-21

Greetings unto Honourable Lady Merideth NiShionniach, outgoing Polaris Herald, and Honourable Lord Iohannes Glenfidanus, incoming Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield November Internal Letter. Comments are due by December 20, 2017.

1: Æsa Olafskona -New Name & New Device

Per saltire azure and sable, three swans naiant argent

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Meaning most important.

<Æsa> is an Old Norse feminine given name found on p 17 of Geirr Bassi

<Olafskona> is a byname constructed of the Old Norse masculine given name <Olafr> as found on p 13 of Geirr Bassi combined with <-kona> the Norse word for 'wife' as found in "The Bynames of the Viking Age Runic Inscriptions - Names of Wives" by Lindorm Eriksson (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/lindorm/runicbynames/wives.htm#start)

Name Comments:

Christian Jorgensen af Hilsonger at 2017-11-24 03:20:23
The given name is documented. the byname follows an established period pattern. no conflict found

Device Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-11-21 19:07:10
No conflict found.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-11-22 10:03:39
I find no conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-11-24 11:25:23
No conflicts found.


2: Elis Godbeare -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Elswyth of Bery(9/1995)

Azure, a bear rampant engorged of an embattled coronet sable and a bordure rayonny Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Both elements of this name are sourced from Family Search.

<Elis> Elis Beaven, Female, 21 Sep 1596, ENGLAND, Batch # C04238-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J37Z-48V)

<Godbeare> Allce Godbeare, Female, 05 May 1633, England, Batch # C05949-3 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9H2-WQK)

Submitter was Queen of the Kingdom of Northshield from fall 2007 to spring 2008. She was awarded the rank of Countess on April 19, 2008, giving her the right to an embattled coronet on her arms.

Name Comments:

Christian Jorgensen af Hilsonger at 2017-11-24 03:25:54
no conflict. docs check out

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-11-24 11:26:00
Docs check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-11-24 18:38:51
In case anyone else was ignorantly wondering, as I was: The <Allce> of the second record occurs also in hundreds of other records, and they can't all be mistranscriptions.

Device Comments:

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-11-22 10:09:29
We need to at least consider the following arms:

Greenland The following device associated with this name was registered in January of 2014 (via Laurel): Azure, a polar bear sejant erect argent. Important non-SCA armory

Sejant erect and rampant are considered the same posture, heraldically. There's one DC for adding the bordure for certain. However, we have recent precedent (March 2016) indicating that gorging/collaring on a whole beast is not worth difference:

"* River Haven, Barony of. Badge for Populace. Barry wavy argent and azure, a seahorse contourny Or. This badge is returned for conflict with the badge of Atlantia: (Fieldless) A sea horse to sinister Or gorged of a chaplet of roses gules. There is one DC for fieldless versus fielded design but none for the gorging or lack thereof. By precedent, the addition or removal of a collar or gorging on a whole beast does not contribute to difference."

By that precedent (and unless there's something newer), the coronet around the neck of the beast is not worth difference, and thus this conflicts with Greenland.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-11-22 14:18:31
There is something newer.
[December 2016 LoAR, A-East] Catalina de Valencia. Badge. Azure, a sea-bear argent gorged with a pearled coronet within six roundels in annulo Or.
Please advise the submitter to draw the roundels larger.
The gorging coronet is not a maintained charge and does bring a DC when conflict checking. Thus it is not required to have good contrast as long as it remains identifiable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The coronet in this submission has good contrast. Catalina de Valencia is shown below for comparison. We look forward to Wreath clearing up the matter.

Suggested blazon: Azure, a bear rampant gorged of an embattled coronet sable within a bordure rayonny Or.

1: Image 1

Iago ab Adam at 2017-11-22 15:12:18
I would be shocked if that precedent weren't just a typo, missing the word 'not' between 'does' and 'bring', given the context - if it did bring a DC then it would be required to have good contrast.

But clarification would still be good.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-11-22 16:27:20
I checked the Errata letters and no mention. With a questionable ruling like that, this needs to go up to Wreath for a clear ruling on the conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-11-22 23:38:57
I have sent an inquiry to Laurel and Wreath Sovereigns of Arms on this point.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-11-23 09:12:31
Thank you. You should get an answer if it can be handled with an Errata letter entry. If it requires more, the device may need to be sent up for a ruling. Either way, it would be nice for the Countess to know where her lovely device stands.

Seraphina Delfino (Ragged Staff) at 2017-11-27 21:40:28
[June 2016 LoAR,R-Middle]Ástriðr Arnardóttir. Device. Per saltire azure and gules, three greyhounds sejant regardant argent.
This device is returned for conflict with the device of Cuán MacDaige: Checky azure and Or, three mastiffs sejant argent each gorged of a coronet gules. There is only one DC for changing the field but none for the type of dog and none for the removal of the gorging coronets, which are a blazonable detail not worth a DC.

The LoAR released 6 months prior, gorging did not count for difference. It probably is a typo.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-11-24 11:26:40
Agree that this should be sent up for clarification of the rulings others have cited.

Iago ab Adam at 2017-11-29 12:53:00
Freshly-minted precedent that should clear this up (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/09/17-09lar.html#346):
[Considering (Fieldless) A goat salient sable gorged with a coronet flory Or.] This badge must be returned for conflict with the badge of Eric Edgarson, Lozengy gules and argent, a goat clymant sable. There is one DC for changes to the field, but no DC for the addition of the coronet. [Yazida bint Zarif. Outlands - September 2017]


3: Hieronymus van Gent and Annetje van Leuven -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name (Hieronymus van Gent) on the Northshield LoI of September 30, 2017 as submitted.
OSCAR finds the name (Annetje van Leuven) on the Northshield LoI of September 30, 2017 as submitted.

(Fieldless) A furison Or estencelly gules

Submission History: Previous badge submission, '(Fieldless) A furison Or estencelly gules', was returned for a redraw based on kingdom commentary on the Auuugust 2017 Northshield Kingdom ILoI. Commenters felt that sparks should be larger and fewer in number to improve visibility. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=78977)

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-11-21 20:43:34
Problem solved nicely.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-11-22 10:14:30
I find the estencelly identifiable, and find no conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-11-24 11:26:56
Looks OK this time.


4: Hieronymus van Gent and Annetje van Leuven -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name (Hieronymus van Gent) on the Northshield LoI of September 30, 2017 as submitted.
OSCAR finds the name (Annetje van Leuven) on the Northshield LoI of September 30, 2017 as submitted.

(Fieldless) A griffin sejant argent maintaining in its dexter claw a furison palewise Or

Submission History: Previous badge submission, '(Fieldless) A griffin sejant argent grasping a furison Or' was returned with a recommendation of a redraw based on kingdom commentary from the August 2017 Northshield Kingdom ILoI. Commenters felt there were issues with identification and orientation of the furison. (https://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingsingleitem.php?kingdom=19&id=78976)

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-11-21 20:54:05
In commentary on the previous submission, I listed 8 pieces of registered armory from 2016 LoIs that had maintained items halfway between the blazonable angles.

After close of commentary, the most recent LoAR (Aug 2017) was issued. It shows our Sovereigns more concerned with the angle of a maintained item than whether it is held in beak or talons: http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/08/17-08lar.html#213, Kolbrandr Haukr, returned because "the arrow is neither fesswise nor bendwise", blazoned Argent, a hawk stooping vert maintaining an arrow azure, a bordure rayonny sable, despite being submitted with in its talons.

That pretty well falsifies my conclusion from that list, and I am pleased to see that submitters will not run into that difficulty.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-11-22 10:17:26
I can tell what this is, because I know what it's supposed to be. However, I'd still be happier if the furison was less "practially" held and more "heraldically" held, by perhaps the bottom loop instead of the center grip, as the talons obscure the bottom half of the cut-out of the furison, which may still hamper identifiability. I'm not certain it's returnable for this, but I can imagine it will get commentary.

I find no conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-11-24 18:43:54
Me, I think the straight-edge and the one loop suffices for identification.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-11-24 11:27:57
This redraw answers the objections to the previous version.


Thus ends the November Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 2 Names, 2 Devices and 2 Badges. There are a total of 6 items submitted on this letter.

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