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Northshield ILoI dated 2017-09-22

Greetings unto Honourable Lady Merideth NiShionniach, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield September Internal Letter. Comments are due by October 20, 2017.

1: Ekaterina Vladimirovna -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Ekaterina Vladimirovna(4/1995)

Argent, on a pale gules between two axes addorsed a zule counterchanged

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Ekaterina - Feminine Russian given name dated to 1533 found in "Dictionary of Period Russian Names", 3rd ed, by Paul Wickenden, page 80.

Vladimirovna - Russian patronymic formed using <Vladimir>, found in "Dictionary of Period Russian Names", 3rd ed, by Paul Wickenden, page 396.

<Vladimir> Vsevolodovich. Born in 1053. [Tup 87]

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-22 18:02:36
This appears to conflict with Ekaterina Vladimirovna
This name was registered in April of 1995 (via Atlantia).

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-09-22 18:25:57
I noticed that.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 21:48:54
So did OSCAR.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-09-25 18:47:08
;-)

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 18:15:06
Not quite. Propose:

Argent, on a pale between two axes in chevron inverted addorsed gules a zule argent

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 22:26:55
The axes here are neither palewise, nor bendwise. I believe them to be in an unblazonable orientation, and thus returnable.

I concur that the zule should be blazoned as simply "argent" and not "counterchanged" as it's a single charge with a single tincture, so there's neither a multi-colored group nor a multicolored charge to justify the blazon "counterchanged". Charges in disparate groups, such as the axes and the zule, generally aren't unified in blazon like that. Gerard's blazon is more appropriate.

I find no conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 00:32:15
You don't think in chevron inverted works?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 22:33:03
In fact, probably not. Consider Elizabeth Chienast (name as registered) from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=75006, blazoned ... two lizards tergiant in chevron ... but returned because "the arrangement of the lizards blurs the difference between palewise and bendwise (sinister)."

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2017-10-01 11:17:32
I think the person who drew the design made the natural choice to follow the tapering lines of the shield with the skinnier bits of the poleaxes. Unfortunately, what is sensible to a lot of artistic design really messes with heraldic design. On the other hand, you're not going to get poleaxes (which these are, not axes) on either side of a pale unless they are palewise (or you have a mighty odd design). I would blazon this "Argent, on a pale between two poleaxes addorsed gules a zule argent" with a note to draw the axe poles parallel with the pale.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-10-01 19:48:11
Concur, except see my link to Elizabeth above; a note may not suffice.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-10-03 20:29:13
The device is already returned due to the name conflict, so the pole-axes should be redrawn palewise. That would remove a likely problem for registration and there is no reason for the axes not to be fixed.
No conflict found. Suggested blazon: Argent, on a pale between two pole-axes addorsed gules a zule argent. These could also be blazoned blades outward.


2: Eyricke Rycard -New Name & New Device

Per bend sinister embattled gules and Or, a chamfron Or and a tai-chi sable and argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.

All elements are sourced from Family Search

Eyricke: Elizabeth <Eyricke>, Female, Christening Date 25 Jan 1578, Place LEICESTER,ENGLAND, Batch Number C03462-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPCG-4XJ)

Rycard: Elyzabeth <Rycard>, Female, Christening Date 25 Nov 1570, Place Kent, England, Batch Number C01966-9 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNLY-X7P)

Late 16th c surname used as a given name.

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 18:25:34
No conflict found.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 18:51:01
Per http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/03/11-03lar.html, s.n. An Tir, Kingdom of, second item, "The use of tai-ch'i, as non-European artistic motifs, are a step from period practice." Comparing to that badge, at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=15720, this emblazon would need a fesswise. However, this is flatly contradicted by the blazon of Geoffrey Arkwright's device, Dec 2002, first image below, from http://atensubmissions.nexiliscom.com/8-2002iloi.shtml, where a ta-chi divided per pale was blazoned a tai-chi fesswise reversed proper ... and by http://mistholme.com/dictionary/roundel/ where "a roundel per fess embowed-counterembowed argent and sable, charged with two counterchanged roundels" is stated to be the Society default.

I think the best blazon here is therefore:

Per bend sinister embattled gules and Or, a chamfron Or and a tai-ch'i per fess sable and argent

with a statement in the XLoI making commentators and Wreath aware of the contradiction and hoping for a resolution.

This draws the above-noted SFPP--even though, interestingly, the submission linked to above shows an allegedly Roman shield comprising the same charge. But since that seems to be the only such step, no problem there.

1: Image 1

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 22:29:13
I concur with the SFPP for the tai-chi. I will leave the details of blazon up to Wreath.

I find no conflicts.


3: Iohannes Glenfidanus -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in August of 1999, via the Middle.

(Fieldless) A scorpion azure bezanty

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 19:06:01
Conflict checkers, especially those with long memories, may wish to be aware of the recent precedent at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/04/17-04lar.html#140, Carloman de le Mer, establishing a DC between scorpions and lobsters and the earlier http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2007/02/07-02lar.html s.n. Lucas Colbert giving "a CD between a crab and the standard SCA-depiction of a scorpion with its curved tail".

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 22:30:24
I find no conflict.

I do not envy this submitter in reproducing this badge.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-10-04 01:39:24
Fewer and larger bezants please.


4: Jeoffrye Inman -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Jacques Abarán(12/1993), Jessica ua Brian (3/1983)

Per pale and per fess wavy argent and purpure, a duck naiant to sinister and a lantern azure

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Spelling (Jeoffrye with a J) most important.

All elements of this name are sourced from Family Search.

Jeoffrye - <Jeoffrye> Grose, Male, Christening Date 19 Jan 1580, LONDON, ENGLAND, Batch C00633-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQLQ-16J)

Inman - Thomas <Inman>, Male, Christening Date 03 Aug 1608, York, England, Batch C39202-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXSF-W2J)

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 17:48:57
No conflict found.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 19:18:40
So no one else has to check: In the OSCAR era, many lanterns with no visible candle and many others of a single tincture with a lit candle have been blazoned simply a lantern. It seems, however, that if submitter cares about having the candle visible she could imitate the blazon of Aedred the Far-traveled's device, Apr 1985, with its a lantern lit Or and make this

Per pale and per fess wavy argent and purpure, a duck naiant to sinister and a lantern lit azure

But if not, the submitted blazon is perfect.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 22:35:50
I am concerned that this "wavy" is entirely too shallow to be registered as such, especially since it is the trait keeping this from the appearance of marshalling.

This armory was returned in 2007 for "too shallow" (3/2007 LOAR, Nesta verch Wyn) of waves, and I believe this depiction is at least as shallow, if not even shallower. http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=2120

I find no conflict.

Iago ab Adam at 2017-09-22 23:45:43
I absolutely agree this is too shallow (for a wavy line in general and particularly in this context).

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 00:33:40
On consideration, concur.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-10-04 01:40:09
Desperately in need of some amplitude in the waves.

Jane Waye at 2017-10-14 11:43:25
I agree also. Significant depth to the waves is needed.


5: Marguarite Larchier -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Marguerite - "Given Names from Brittany, 1384-1600" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/latebreton.html)

Margarite F

Margarite 1512, 1515, 1515, 1519, 1519, 1519, 1538

<Marguarite> 1530

Larchier - "French Surnames from Paris, 1421, 1423 & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html)

Larchier 4 1421, 1423, 1438

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 17:45:08
Marguarite is 1530 and Marguerite is 1509. Which spelling is on the form?

No conflict found.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-10-01 19:32:32
Marguarite

Jane Waye at 2017-10-14 11:43:59
I also find no conflict.


6: Osanna of Rokeclif -New Name & New Device

Azure, a hind courant argent on a chief Or three leaves sable

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Osanna - Feminine given name found in "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia Women's Names" by Talan Gwynek (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/bahlowFem.html)

Osanna 1 1380

of Rokeclif - the Shire of Rokeclif is a branch of the SCA within the Kingdom of Northshield, name registered February of 1997 (via the Middle)

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 17:14:57
No conflict found.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 19:42:20
It is bad style to have charges up against edges of their sections as all of these are. This has been an occasional cause for an artist's note from http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1984/03/lar.html s.n. Cei of the Iron Rings through http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/12/16-12lar.html#326, Perrin Loðinsson, but not that I can find for a return.

It would of course be good for submitter to correct the problem before the XLoI, if possible.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 22:59:06
Until I read the blazon, I saw this as a greyhound/dog, not as a "hind". Looking back, I can yeah, okay, maybe that's a deer type and not a dog type, but it's not "at a glance identifiable" the way I'd hope heraldry would be. The non-standard posture doesn't help the identifiability here--deer are generally in one of the three postures for which they have special blazonry terms: statant guardant (at gaze), passant (trippant) or couchant (lodged). The combination of the lack of antlers and the non-standard posture makes this worryingly ambiguous at a glance.

According to mistholme, the default leaf is elliptically shaped. These aren't holly leaves, they're not maple... I'm not sure what to call them. In silhouette, they look like pinecones or hopcones or even artichokes (all of which conflict with each other). We *might* be able to call them hawthorn leaves--the silhouette is at least close, and that blazon was registered in 2004 (pre SENA, and more than a decade ago, but at least it was this century). But I think we're getting more into excessively specific breed/type here, and it's probably worth contacting the submitter.

I find no conflict for the device as blazoned.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-09-25 18:51:52
The submitter wanted hazel leaves, IIRC. We settled on leaves. This will need a redraw.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 11:41:50
Greyhound vs. Stag. Delete the attires and compare.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3

Heledd of Mathrafal at 2017-09-23 01:44:39
While I agree that this looks doglike, Fox-Davies, in chapter 12 on Beasts under Stags shows a stag courant in this position, and shows a hind that, while in a different position, looks like this. Please see https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Complete_Guide_to_Heraldry/Chapter_12 under stags. This does mean that the submitter had reason for portraying it this way. Greyhounds, which are also shown in Fox-Davies, have long tails and are more wasp-waisted.

A quick and dirty internet search tells me that hinds are female deer, especially red deer, which explains the lack of antlers. It also turned up a couple dictionary definitions that placed the root of the word as going back to German (and before that, Greek) and meaning without horns. Please see https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/hind.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-09-25 18:53:39
Thank you for that information. It is very helpful. Good to see you commenting.

Heledd of Mathrafal at 2017-09-26 22:29:44
You're welcome! I stand in awe of the knowledge here and so don't have much to add very often, but occasionally I stumble across the odd factoid like this one. I try to at least keep up with reading the comments on the LOI but occasionally get behind when life interferes. I learn a lot reading this.


7: Ottilie of Rokeclif -New Name & New Device

Gules, a weasel rampant argent and on a chief Or three sunflowers vert

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Ottilie - feminine given name found in "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia Women's Names" by Talan Gwynek (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/bahlowFem.html)

Ottilie 2 1348, 1348

of Rokeclif - the Shire of Rokeclif is a branch of the SCA within the Kingdom of Northshield, name registered February of 1997 (via the Middle)

Name Comments:

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 11:01:48
No conflict found.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 19:43:57
It is bad style to have charges up against edges of their sections as the sunflowers here are. This has been an occasional cause for an artist's note from http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1984/03/lar.html s.n. Cei of the Iron Rings through http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/12/16-12lar.html#326, Perrin Loðinsson, but not that I can find for a return.

It would of course be good for submitter to correct the problem before the XLoI, if possible, especially since the chief could stand to be a bit deeper and the flowers slightly closer to each other.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-09-25 18:55:22
Since sunflowers are a New World flower, are they acceptable without an IAP?

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-25 19:08:40
Sunflowers were registered in December 2016 as a normal charge with no restriction.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-25 21:08:41
If they were merely known to explorers in our period, they'd only draw an SFPP, not require an IAP. But as it happens, they were used in heraldry at least once: http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/03/08-03lar.html, s.n. Cristina Rose da Napoli.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 23:00:34
I find no conflict.


8: Sami'a bint 'Isa -New Name & New Device

Sami'a bint 'Isa

Gules, a lion passant sable within a barbed quatrefoil Or

Submitter desires a feminine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Sami'a is a constructed Arabic feminine name based on an attribute of God. Samee is found in "The One Hundred Most Beautiful Names of God" by Mustapha al-Muhaddith ibn al-Saqaat (https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mustapha/cnamesofgod.html)

"Ya Samee' O One who hears (S-M-`A)"

Sami' is an alternate transliteration as found in "NAMES OF ALLAH, THE 99 BEAUTIFUL" (http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/N/names_of_allah.html)

"27. The All-Hearing, The Hearer (al-Sami`)"

Examples of women named after such attributes appear in "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context: Names from the Geniza of Cairo" by Juliana de Luna, (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/geniza.html):

100 Names of God / Names from the Geniza

Jameel / Jamila

Salaam / Salama

Rasheed / Rashida

Barr / Barra

Baaqiy / Baqiyya

Raffee / Rafi'a

'Azeez / 'Aziza

Ghanee / Ghunya

Muta'alee / Mudallila

bint 'Isa is a standard nasab described in "PERIOD ARABIC NAMES AND NAMING PRACTICES" by Da'ud ibn Auda (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm). It is 'daughter of''Isa, a male name listed in this article.

The above submission has images. To view them, see the URLs below:
#1 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1123/2017-09-21/21-29-38_Sami'a_Name_Doc_2.jpg
#2 https://oscar.sca.org/showimage.php?I=1123/2017-09-21/21-29-41_Sami'a_Name_Doc_3.jpg

Name Comments:

Basil Dragonstrike (Lions Heart) at 2017-09-29 16:44:52
I am not entirely convinced Sami'a is sufficiently documented. First, the feminization of Sami (properly Samīʻ) is likely, and I'd give the submitter the benefit of the doubt. However, Samīʻ is one of the "99 Names of Allah", (http://ahadith.co.uk/99namesofAllah.php?page=4, number 27, and https://www.searchtruth.com/Allah/99Names.php, number 26) and it would be expected to be found only in the theophoric ʻism ʻAbd al-Samīʻ, or ʻAmat al-Samīʻ. It's use simply as Samīʻ would be, at least in period, unlikely.

It is true that some ʻisms have derived from a "name of Allah", but this is unusual. For example, al-Rashīd moved from the theophoric ʻAbd al-Rashīd through Harūn al-Rashīd to a number of uses as a laqab/nisba and even Rashīd al-Din; after our period Rashīd became an ʻism. There are other examples of this.

However, note that Juliana's article is about "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context: Names from the Geniza of Cairo". Jewish names in Arabic that came from "The Names of God" would not necessarily been treated with the respect amounting nearly to worship that Muslims would have treated them. That is, where a Muslim would have been reluctant to name a child (for example) Jalīl rather than ʻAbd al-Jalīl, a Jew would probably not have felt such scruples.

More importantly, these are Jewish documents. There is thus no reason to suppose that all those names come from Arabic names (or feminized Arabic names); some may well be from Hebrew, or possibly other sources (Aramaic comes to mind). Given that the submitter has used bint to denote the patronymic, rather than bat or bas, means this name must be treated as Arabic, not Hebrew.

Thus, the names found in Juliana's list should function as a guide only in the the milieu in which they were found; Jewish women's names in the Middle Ages. As a guide to Arabic usage, it must be used with care. In short, I'm not sure this is enough documentation for the given name. YMMV.

I didn't find any conflict.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2017-10-01 13:57:41
Concur that given name has not been adequately supported. The table of supposedly supporting examples establishes that "just add A" is not necessarily how to form the names that ARE attested, and actually argues against the construction. Perhaps there should be an additional column: attribute of God> masculine 'ism > feminine 'ism

I can't find Samee/Sami' as an attested period masculine 'ism, and without that piece, it's pretty impossible to argue for Sami'a, given the relative amount of masculine and feminine data we have.

If submitter is looking for a name in Sam-, Juliana's article Arabic Names from al-Andalus gives Samra as a feminine 'ism. https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/alandalus/femism.html

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 21:23:10
If registered, this would be the defining instance of a barbed quatrefoil. The term is used for an architectural element described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatrefoil#Barbed_quatrefoil and illustrated with the first image below, a line drawing, and the second, a photographed bas-relief. However, these are both voided, like the Society cornice I discuss below, and so do not quite match the solid charge emblazoned here.

Interestingly, a Google image search on "barbed quatrefoil" medieval OR renaissance finds nearly all occurrences as frames, some empty but most filled with some drawing. My one period counter-example, a 13th-14th-c. horse brass with the arms of Hereford, housed at the Museum of London, from https://collections.museumoflondon.org.uk/online/object/35369.html, is the third image below. (This use of the shape is not in itself heraldic, of course.)

This is not, in any case, a Society quatrefoil following the decree of http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/10/16-10cl.html#4, "From Wreath: Where the Wild Foils Grow", in which our Sovereigns finally determined that only what http://mistholme.com/dictionary/foil/ calls "a class of generic flowers ... not of any natural species, but ... highly stylized heraldic charges" will henceforth be blazoned as N-foils. I append the fourth image below for emphasis.

Barbing such quasi-flowers like a rose could produce a shape similar to this, but would surely have internal details.

Its outline is that of a Society four-lobed quadrate cornice like that from https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=58796 for Lyonnette Chenevall, fifth image below, and for Valdís Brýningsdóttir at http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=4768&dsn=79640#9 in this letter, but set saltirewise. But like the Wikipedia illustrations of barbed quatrefoils, our cornices are voided, and I know no heraldic way of filling such a charge in. ("Unvoided" does not appear in the O&A.)

We could try on a quatrefoil set saltirewise surmounted by a lozenge a lion passant sable, but that would create three layers, which we do not allow, and moreover I would be astonished to find overall charges in period heraldry of the same tincture as what they surmount. Tellingly, Parker writes, "Surmounted by: a term used when a bearing is placed over another of a different tincture."

In fine, unless Wreath is willing to accept a previously unregistered solid shape that is (so far as we know) not found in heraldry, labeled with the name of a shape almost always voided in period sculpture, architecture, etc., the submission is not registerable.

Additional evidence, perhaps from Saracenic Heraldry, could of course reverse the situation.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2 3: Image 3 4: Image 4 5: Image 5

Iago ab Adam at 2017-09-23 15:35:44
I just finished looking through "Saracenic Heraldry". No luck there - I didn't see anything similar to this charge.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 17:34:58
Thank you, Maister Iago! "My" copy is held by the Middle East Collection at the University of Utah's Marriott libraries.

Iago ab Adam at 2017-09-23 18:10:43
Mine's at the University of Victoria library. Since I was here doing other research anyway I thought I'd have a look.

Adelaide de Beaumont at 2017-10-01 14:03:25
Add to its many problems the orientation; a quatrefoil defaults to blobby bits in cross. This would have to be a barbed quatrefoil saltirewise. Also, the lion is not 'within', it is 'on' the yellow blob.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 23:14:26
I know of no heraldic charge with this shape (other than the voided-by-type "four lobed quadrate cornice"). Without documentation as a solid charge, it is not registerable.

I am also unable to offer any suggestions as to a way to document this charge. The 'four lobed quadrate cornice' as registered is a period charge, and while it has the same shape, it is voided by type, and I don't know of any way to "unvoid" a charge. As far as I'm aware, we do not have a pattern that this shape could fit into (it's not a tool, an everyday artifact, a flower, a beast, nor a constructed monster, and thus doesn't fall under the patterns listed in SENA A.2.B.2) nor does it seem to fall under any of the patterns listed as a SFPP in SENA A.2.B.4 (Non-European armorial elements, Non-European plants and animals, non-tool European artifact, nor one of the elements listed in Appendix G)

I have no way of conflict checking a charge that does not exist. Presumably, it would be checked either distinctly if it is shown to be a period charge (in which case I cannot imagine anything that would conflict with it), or visually if it is documented within a pattern (in which case it's probably a DC but not an SC from a 'four lobed quadrate cornice', since voiding is generally worth a DC, and they're the same shape).

Presuming at least a DC between this shape and the period cornice, I find no conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 17:39:18
[Rabbit-trail warning!]

Having comprehensively attempted to shoot down the submission as non-heraldic, I feel obliged to acknowledge that it is a striking and attractive design. I would happily embrace it in a game not bound by our rules.


9: Valdís Brýningsdóttir -New Name & New Device

Per saltire argent and vert, a punner within a four-lobed quadrate cornice counterchanged

Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.
Language most important.

Valdís is an Old Norse feminine given name found on page 15 of GB

Brýningsdóttir is an Old Norse patronymic constructed from <Brýningr>, as found on page 67 of FJ and following the patronymic formation pattern for men's names ending in -r on page 17 of GB.

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 17:57:09
See Mistress ffride's query and my response (so far) misplaced under Device Comments for this pair.

Magnus von Lübeck at 2017-09-30 09:56:21
No conflict found.

First let us replace these useless abbreviations with a real citation.
GB is Geirr Bassi Haraldsson. The Old Norse Name.
FJ is Fellows-Jensen, Gillian. Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Copenhagen. Akademisk Forlag. 1968.
http://vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml
The Viking Answer Lady quoting Fellows-Jensen page 67 s.n. Brýningr
Brýningr "Son of Brýni; son of Brúnn." Formed by adding the second element -ing to the by-name Brýni, "stubborn." Alternatively may be formed from Brúnn. Anglo-Scandinavian forms occur in the place-names Brennigston, Brinctun, Brinniston, Brinnistun, Brinigstun.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-22 21:44:25
Information not found at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=17674 for Cormac Mór, the defining instance, with two loops where the Wappenbook's "Rammbock" has three, or at https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=65752 for Violet Hughes: The OED s.v. punner, n.2, "A tool for punning or ramming something down, esp. for ramming earth around the base of a post, etc., or for ramming down paving stones." My guess is that the first example applies.

The etymology connects "pun" to "pound".

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-09-22 23:16:00
I find no conflict.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-09-23 17:16:43
Did the submitter include documentation for Brýningr?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 17:56:07
Yes, she does, from "FJ", which is how the Viking Answer Lady* designates Gillian Fellows-Jensen, Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. (Copenhagen: Akademisk Forlag, 1968). http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml#b s.n. Brýningr confirms the page but not the construction.

Does submitter need to provide a photocopy, or is Fellows-Jensen de facto exempt?

In any case, this thread belongs under Name Comments, not here. So I'll x-ref it there.
--------------------
* What is her Society name and well-deserved title?

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-09-23 17:59:39
You're thinking of Gunnvǫr silfrahárr, Orle Herald.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-09-23 18:12:03
THANK you! Data saved to my oscar.txt file.


Thus ends the September Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 8 Names, 7 Devices and 1 Badge. There are a total of 16 items submitted on this letter.

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