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Northshield ILoI dated 2017-07-23

Greetings unto Honourable Lady Merideth NiShionniach, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield July Internal Letter. Comments are due by August 21, 2017.

1: Arabella Vaughan -New Name & New Device

Purpure, on a pale argent three dragonflies purpure

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Arabella: s.n. Arabel(la) Arabella Stuart (1575-1615) [Withecombe] p.29 3rd ed.

Vaughan: s.n. Voughan with one instance of <Vaughan> found in "16th Century Gloucestershire Names" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/english/late16.html)

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:21:12
Minor typo to fix in the headmatter. It's Withycombe.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 18:58:52
I hate to be ingenious at the expense of the submitter, but better she know now than later.

In at least two important non-rhotic dialects of modern English--English prestige English (RP) and Australian English, if not others--<Thorne> (OED /θɔːn/ for "thorn") is apparently an exact rhyme for <Vaughan>. That leaves <Arabella Thorne>, Jul 2001, only one consonant different from the submission, creating a sound conflict.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-07-25 21:21:06
How significant is this? I think I will send it onward and let Laurel make the decision.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-25 22:45:31
I cannot thank you enough, Keythong, for making me lay this out in detail and thus correct myself. I was, incorrectly, going to tell you that sending this up to Pelican would be as much a disservice to submitter as if you sent up someone's armory with only 1 DC of difference from another registration, saying "let Wreath make the decision." Fortunately, I was wrong!

Under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C1, "Changes to Two Syllables"; there's a change to only one syllable in either spelling or sound. Doesn't qualify.

Under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C2, "Substantial Change to One Syllable", there's not enough change in sound: Only one consonant in important modern pronunciations in at least two kingdoms, Drachenwald and Lochac (see above), where that section requires consonant(s) and vowel. Clear only for spelling.

But I'd idiotically forgotten about http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C3, "Substantial Change of Single-Syllable Name Phrase":

Comparable single-syllable name phrases are generally substantially different in sound if a group of adjacent vowels or of adjacent consonants within a word are completely changed, so that it shares no sound in common. [Emphasis added.]
Since /v/ ≠ /θ/, with no sound in common, <Vaughan> is clear of <Thorne> for sound.

To avoid others making the same mistake I did, you'd be wise to send it up saying something like this:
Commentary noted that in some modern non-rhotic pronunciations, such as Australian, New Zealand, and some in England including "Received Pronunciation", the submission is an exact rhyme for <Arabella Thorne>, Jul 2001. They are clear of each other for sound under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C3, "Substantial Change of Single-Syllable Name Phrase", with complete difference in initial consonants of the bynames. They are of course clear of each other for appearance under that section as well as under SENA PN3.C.2.
You're welcome to attach my name to that if you like.*
-------------------------
* Toward that end, if it matters: I hold a master's degree in linguistics from the University of Utah (1976), emphasis on English language. Honoring my training, I asked for informants at https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat/permalink/10155686114929203/, where I wrote,
"Are Thorne and Vaughan EXACT rhymes, with no differences in the vowels, for you?" and was told:
Amanda Jones Exact rhymes for me, from Australia.
Fiona Frentz Exact rhymes for me here in NZ.
Sciath Ingen Chaennaig My Lord hails from the United Kingdom, and as he says the two words - they do rhyme.
And I myself had reported there,
George Trosper I've just checked YouTube videos about Ralph (pronounced RAFE) Vaughan Williams, and I'm finding exact rhymes for the OED's Brit. audio for "thorn", at least to my ear.
Those two videos matched what I've learned to consider RP.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:15:02
Surname doc checks out.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:20:03
No conflicts found. Verified documentation.

Device Comments:

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-07-23 12:37:57
I find no conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:15:21
No conflicts found.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-08-01 09:15:20
No conflicts found


2: Caron Lion -New Name

No changes.
Sound (sounds like Caron Lion, which I have use as SCA name for 10+ yrs) most important.

Keythong Note: Submitter included several names from Family Search for both given and surname. I have only listed one of each. No batch numbers were included, so I was unable to find the matching surname record. I have included a comparable one. Additional information about Welsh law has also been omitted as nonessential to documentation of this name.

Caron: Found as an English surname in Family Search:

Patricke <Caron>, Marriage Date: 02 Sep 1548, London,England, Batch Number M02229-2 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVKT-NBH)

Lion: Found as an English surname in Family Search:

John <Lion>, Male, Christening Date 08 Apr 1571, LONDON, ENGLAND, Batch Number P00152-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPLS-C29)

Precedent allows use of late 16th c. surnames as given names.

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:25:29
The records cited by Keythong are (of course) exactly as represented.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-07-25 21:21:36
;-)

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:49:58
I find no conflicts.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-07-24 05:26:45
Docs check out.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:15:42
Docs check out.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:21:17
No conflicts found.


3: Christiana de Lacy -New Name

Submitter desires a feminine name.

Christiana: English feminine given name found in "Women's Given Names from Early 13th Century England" by Talan Gwynek (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/eng13/eng13f.html)

de Lacy: English surname dated to 1375, found in "Monumental Brass Enscriptions - Surnames A - H" by Julian Goodwyn (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/brasses/lastnameAH.html#D)

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:28:36
The citations check out.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:39:17
I find no conflicts.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-07-24 05:27:50
Docs check out.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:16:00
Docs check out.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:23:21
Verified documentation. No conflicts found.


4: James Griffin the Red -New Device

OSCAR finds the name on the Northshield LoI of February 28, 2017 as submitted.

Gyronni arrondi gules and Or, a bear's head erased sable

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 12:15:08
This striking device conflicts with Symon von Behr and Margarete von Spira's badge for Haus zum Behrer, May 2014, Argent, a bear's head couped sable, with only 1 DC for the field--nothing for couped vs. erased.

For others' guidance who may have had a misconception like me, I here quote http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/11/09-11lar.html s.n. Jon Thomme de Claydon:

Even though the tinctures are indexed together in the Ordinary and Armorial, there is [a] CD for the difference between brown and black.
So the registered brown and grizzly heads proper do not conflict here.

If including a head erased on resubmission, submitter or his artist should be made aware of the decree in http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2001/11/01-11cl.html, "From Wreath: Couped and Erased":
for purposes of recreating period armorial style for erasing, the erasing should (1) have between three and eight jags; (2) have jags that are approximately one-sixth to one-third the total height of the charge being erased; and (3) have jags that are not straight but rather are wavy or curved.
This emblazon may pass criterion 1, depending on which points we count the neck as between, and certainly meets criterion 3. It does not meet criterion 2.

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-07-23 12:40:03
I concur this is in conflict with Symon von Behr's registered badge.

Iohannes Glenfidanus (Isundun) at 2017-07-24 13:44:56
For clarity, is your position that there is or is not a conflict? It seems like you are saying there is one then providing evidence for 2 DC which would clear that item.

Based on 1 DC for the field and 1 DC for the cited difference between brown and black I say this item is clear of the indicated conflict.

There may still be an issue with the drawing of the jags which could be cause for return.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-24 15:09:07
Sorry for the confusion, Isundun. I said there was other armory that didn't conflict because it wasn't sable. The one I cited, as Donna Beatrice confirms, is a definite conflict: sable = sable.

Iohannes Glenfidanus (Isundun) at 2017-07-25 11:30:07
Thank you! I concur with the conflict.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-07-25 21:26:50
So that I might better advise the submitter, am I understanding correctly that the way he has drawn the bear's head with a continuous jagged/erasure continuing into the back of the head is not acceptable?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-25 23:04:04
Nothing wrong with keeping the back of the head as is so long as he makes the neck conform with the three criteria I noted above.


5: Jehannette de Provins -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2001, via Atlantia.

(Fieldless) A phoenix rising from flames proper maintaining two needles crossed in saltire azure

Badge Comments:

Lazar Eemii Nankovitz (Cailin Dubh Mac Eoin) at 2017-07-23 12:32:02
Shouldn't the phoenix be blazoned as azure?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 12:32:54
Tincture omitted, threads not mentioned. We need:

(Fieldless) A phoenix azure rising from flames proper maintaining to chief two needles crossed in saltire azure threaded sable

I'm getting the needles' and their threads' tinctures only from peering close-up at the 8" emblazon on my monitor.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 16:59:40
Does that last mean they're not identifiable and this should be returned?

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-07-23 12:42:00
I concur with Gerard's reblazon, and find no conflict.

I might suggest that the flames be drawn larger, as by precedent they count as half the charge for tincture.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:02:00
I thought that precedent was established precisely to apply to cases where the flames didn't actually supply half the area of the charge.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:18:37
The phoenix needs to be specified as azure. As blazoned, it would be proper. No conflicts found, but "maintaining" means holding in some appendage however unlikely. The phoenix's wings are simply touching the needles. Perhaps it could be blazoned "conjoined in chief to two needles crossed in saltire azure."

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-07-25 21:28:47
A concern I had, when I received this submission, was are the needles identifiable as needles. What are your impressions?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-25 23:01:18
Only because of their threads.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:38:13
No easily identifiable to me. I first thought it was swords and that the phoenix had funky eyebrows.


6: Refkell melrakki Einarsson -New Badge

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in April of 2001, via Atlantia.

(Fieldless) A fox's head erased contourny quarterly argent and azure

Badge Comments:

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-07-23 12:43:11
I find no conflict.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:18:55
No conflicts found.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:35:46
No conflicts found.


7: Titus Furius Verus -New Name & New Device

Azure, a bear statent to sinister, in chief two mullets and a base argent

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Language (Roman) most important.

All elements of this name are sourced from "A Simple Guide to Imperial Roman Names" by Ursula Georges (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/roman.html)

Name follows the traditional tria nomina form of masculine names in the Roman Empire in the 1st and 2nd c AD.

Praenomen - Titus

Nomen - Furius

Cognomen - Verus

Name Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:31:20
All elements are exactly as stated.

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-07-24 05:29:17
Docs check out.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:19:17
Docs check out.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:25:50
No conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-07-23 12:44:18
I find no conflict.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-07-23 17:15:40
Fixing the typo and avoiding the annoying moment of half-thinking, "Is the base, too, in chief?":

Azure, a bear statant to sinister and in chief two mullets, a base argent

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-07-25 21:20:14
Agree with Gerard's blazon tweaks. No conflicts found.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-07-26 10:30:04
Thanks for the comma! :)

No conflicts found.


Thus ends the July Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 4 Names, 3 Devices and 2 Badges. There are a total of 9 items submitted on this letter.

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