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Northshield ILoI dated 2017-03-23

Greetings unto Honourable Lady Merideth NiShionniach, Polaris Herald, the Heralds of Northshield, and our brethren from other kingdoms. Herein please find the Northshield March Internal Letter. Comments are due by April 20, 2017.

1: Armond le Charpentier -New Name Change & New Device Change

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Armand le Charpentier(10/1991)

OSCAR NOTE: the old name was registered in October of 1991, via Atlantia.

Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated gules and in chief two pairs of hammers in saltire sable, a bordure vert

Old Item: Armand le Charpentier, to be released.
Old Item: Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated gules, in chief two pairs of hammers in saltire azure hafted proper, a bordure vert, to be released.
Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Spelling most important.

The old name <Armand le Charpentier> was registered in October of 1991, via Atlantia.

Armond is found in Family Search:

Armond Wattam, Male, Burial Date 25 Mar 1629, Lincoln, England, Batch B02687-3 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J85X-M93)

le Charpentier is already registered to the submitter. Also found dated to 1438 in "French Surnames from Paris, 1421, 1423 & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html)

Appendix C permits mixing of English and French between 1100-1600 and the elements are documented within 300 years of each other, as required for linguistic mixes between groups.

Old device (Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated gules, in chief two pairs of hammers in saltire azure hafted proper, a bordure vert) was registered in May 1992, via Atlantia.

Name Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:39:54
Verified documentation. No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:33:57
Given name doc checks out. Surname is grandparented to the client.

Device Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:35:12
No conflicts found. Only thing really close is submitter's orignal device.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:34:19
No conflicts found.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-04-11 07:39:36
Appears clear from conflict.


2: Avonwood, Shire of -Resub Branch Name & Resub Device

Per fess wavy Or and azure, an oak tree eradicated and a laurel wreath counterchanged

Meaning most important.

Submission History: This branch name and device were returned for lack of a valid petition on the October 2016 LOAR, via Northshield. Although it had the required number of signatures, it lacked a date on the petition form. (https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=66443)

A petition declaring support for this name, dated and signed by the members and officers of this group, was included with this submission and will be uploaded with the documents.

All elements of this name are found in "A Dictionary of English Place Names", 2nd ed, by A.D. Mills.

Avon - p 19. "Old river-name found several times in England, from a Celtic word meaning simply 'river'."

Wood - p 341. As shown in <Testwood>. "Lesteorde (sic) 1086 (DB), Terstewode c.1185. 'Wood by the River Test'"

ALSO,

Juliana de Luna's "Compound Place Names in English" (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/EnglishCompoundPlacenames/) gives examples of the pattern of [surname] + [generic toponym].

<Avon> is an English surname:

Agnes Avon; Female; Christening; 26 Jun 1586; Cranbrook, Kent, England; Batch: C03077-0 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQCG-KMV)

<-wood> is a generic toponym, as demonstrated by atte Wode, found in Bardsley s.n. Attwood dated to 1273, and de la Wode, found in Bardsley s.n. Wood, dated to 1273.

The spelling "wood" appears in the Middle English Dictionary s.v. wode (n.2) in the example of Southewood dated to 1450.

Submission History: This branch name and device were returned for lack of a valid petition on the October 2016 LOAR, via Northshield. Although it had the required number of signatures, it lacked a date on the petition form. (https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=66444)

Branch Name Comments:

Kolosvari Arpadne Julia at 2017-03-23 22:06:37
Something went wrong: is this a personal name or a branch name? Branch names get their own heading; they cannot be "owned" by individuals.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-03-23 22:33:09
Thanks for catching that. My brain has been mush lately.

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:38:07
No conflicts found. I like this name!!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:35:05
The citations from Mills should be sufficient to document the form of the name so documenting "Avon" as a surname is wholly unnecessary.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-04-10 16:00:44
Because the "Wood" citation in Mills shows <-wood> combining with the name of another river. Nice!

Device Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:45:48
No conflicts found.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-03-26 00:17:43
The acorns are nearly unrecognizable to me when peered at up close, and completely so when viewed at proper distance.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:36:05
Nicely drawn partition line! It's necessary to blow the picture up a great deal to be able to recognize the leaves as oak. Perhaps drawing both the leaves and the acorns larger would be good; they don't have to be realistically proportioned to the tree. No conflicts found.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-04-11 07:40:01
Appears clear from conflict.

Mira Fastova (Keythong) at 2017-04-13 09:58:53
The submitters are working on a redraw of the device to resolve the difficulty in identifying the acorns.


3: Guttorm Arnessen -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in September of 1981, via the Middle.

Gules, two axes crossed in saltire and in chief three buckets argent

Device Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:48:37
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:36:31
Several near-conflicts, but no actual ones found.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-04-11 07:40:17
Appears clear from conflict.


4: Handsome Talboys -New Name

No major changes.
Sound most important.

Handsome is a surname used as a given name found in Family Search:

Dorithy Handsome, Date 02 Jul 1611, Place Durham, England, (Batch) Number M00128-1 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2DR-5Y3)

Talboys is a surname found in Family Search:

Richard Talboys, Date 13 Oct 1616, Place Gloucester,England, (Batch) Number M05486-2 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVKL-B7M)

Name Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:51:21
Fun name! Verified documentation. No conflicts found - closest is the household Handsome Boys registered Jan 2015 in the East.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:36:57
Docs check out. Wonder if the client is aware of the etymology of "handsome". Someone should show him the entry in R&W.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-04-10 16:23:08
What entry? My Reaney & Wilson, rev. 3rd ed., does not list <Handsome> as a surname.

As for usage history, the OED finds "the most common [modern] sense, as the usual epithet for an attractive man" only in the 1590 Faerie Queen, but 'seemly; courteous, gracious' earlier in that century is not pejorative, nor is the earliest meaning, 'easy to handle or control' as, e.g., an ax.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-14 15:01:18
My bad. I was thinking of R&W, but didn't look it up before posting. What I had really found was the entry for the word in the OED. The various definitions include "easy to handle or manipulate" cited first from 1435, "handy, ready at hand" from 1530, "apt, skilled, clever" from 1547, "proper, fitting, seemly" from 1597, "of fair size or amount" from 1577, and "having a fine form or figure" from 1590.


5: Rǫgnvaldr Þorvaldsson -New Name & New Device

Gyronny arrondi of six gules and Or, in pall inverted three valknuts sable

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Language (Old Norse) most important.

Rǫgnvalder is a masculine Old Norse name found on p 14 of GB

Þorvaldsson is a patronymic created from the masculine name <Þorvaldr> as found on page 15 of GB. The -r is changed to -s before adding -son as explained on p 17.

Name Comments:

Anpliça Fiore (Scroby) at 2017-03-25 09:54:24
Verified documentation: found Þorvaldr on p. 16 of GB. No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:37:23
Docs check out.

Device Comments:

Beatrice Domenici della Campana at 2017-03-24 13:02:00
This is not a valid valknut, per precedent (December 2010):

"Bleuflattes, College of. Device. Vert, a valknut within a laurel wreath Or, and on a ford proper a crescent pendant Or. This device is returned because the primary charge is not actually a valknut, as defined for the Society's heraldic use. Precedent says:

For purposes of SCA heraldry, a valknut is three voided triangles interlaced. [Dearbháil inghean Léoid, January 2008, R-Outlands]

The submitted emblazon does not have three triangles voided and interlaced, it has a trefoil knot with triangular sides. Since it can not be blazoned as a period charge, it must be returned."

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-03-26 00:34:42
The blazon offered places the charges inaccurately on the field. We might better imitate the September 2015 reblazon of Mocholla MacDhaibhidh's device: Gyronny argent ermined gules and vert, the metal sections charged with four swords points to center sable. Clunky, not to say kludgy, but clear. So:

Gyronny arrondi of six gules and Or, each Or section charged with a valknut sable

Except as Signora Beatrice notes, they're currently knots, not valknuts.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-04-10 14:39:10
Since the field is technically neutral, the valknuts may overlap the gules portions as suggested by blazoning them as "in pall inverted". Agree that it would be clearer to say that they're charged on the Or gyrons. The Glossary of Terms says that the default for gyronny of six is "Per fess, with the upper and lower halves divided into thirds". This should apply to gyronny arrondy as well. I believe this conflicts with Lokki Rekkr, reg. 1/15 via Lochac: "Argent, three valknuts sable." There is but one DC for the field.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-04-10 16:29:18
Lokki's valknuts are two-and-one by default, so surely there is another DC under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5G6, "Change of Arrangement Within a Charge Group", which applies to both "the relative positions of the charges ... and to their positions on the field", and in this case indeed to both.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-04-10 16:46:01
What is the arrangement of the valknuts in this device? The way it's drawn, the closest standard arrangement would be 2 & 1.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-04-10 18:11:39
See above.

Etienne Le Mons (Sea Stag) at 2017-04-11 07:42:22
I saw the "each Or section charged with", but they're still basically a slightly tilted 2 & 1. Is that slight tilting worth a difference?

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-04-11 14:45:17
I consider the tilting massive. If charges in these positions appeared on a plain field as 2 & 1, we'd all be recommending return.


Thus ends the March Internal Letter for Northshield.

In service to Northshield & the College of Arms

Mistress Mira Fastova

Keythong Herald


OSCAR counts 2 Names, 1 Name Change, 1 Branch Name, 3 Devices and 1 Device Change. There are a total of 8 items submitted on this letter.

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