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Ansteorra ILoI dated 2017-02-07

Greetings Ansteorra! Please welcome our new Asterisk Herald, Lady Rebekah Aleyn. This letter is produced jointly by Lady Rebekah and Lady Vigdís Gráfeldr.

We have only a few entries this month.

Letter Comments:

Maridonna Benvenuti at 2017-02-08 06:22:08
Congratulation and best wishes Lady Rebekah!

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:34:43
Comments under my name represent the consensus of the NE Calontir commenting group, consisting this month of Lady Brigida von München, Purple Falcon Herald, Lady Rohese de Dinan, Shadowdale Pursuivant, and myself.

1: Ænghill inn kyrri -New Name & New Device

Azure, on a chevron argent, three lotus flowers affronty purpure

Submitter desires a masculine name.
Meaning most important.

Submitted through the Incipient Canton of Wyldewode

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gournay

Lind, E.H. 1849-1931. Norsk-isländska Personbinamm Frain Medeltiden / Samlade Ock Utgivna Med Förklaringer Av E. H. Lind: Med Understöd Av Den Norska Nansenfönden Ock den Lãngmanska Fonden. Uppsala: Lundequistska bokhandeln, 19201925 Lind col. 234-5 sn. Engill. (Norway, 1321)

On October 31,2016. Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L Uckelman), Viking bynames found in the Landnamabok. (n.d.). http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html, list of bynames (nicknames) from "The Old Norse Name".

On October 31, 2016, Jack Garrett, Vikings of Bjornstad - Old Norse Dictionary, http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Old_Norse_Dictionary_E2N.shtm, Norse language translation

On October 31, 2016 R.G. Arthur, English-Old Norse Dictionary - York University, http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/language/English-Old_Norse.pdf. Norse language word list

On October 31,2016 Judith Pfaff, Nordic Names Wiki - Name Origin, Meaning an Statistics, https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Kyrri

Name meaning-example found of byname in use

Submitted through the Incipient Canton of Wyldewode

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gournay

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-02-08 00:16:30
Tweaking the documentation summary slightly:
Lind col. 234-5 sn. Engill
Ænghill Assmundarsson, 1321, Jævnaker, Norway.

Lind Personbinamn col. 231 sn. Kyrri
Mentions King Óláfr hinn kyrri Haraldz son, and one of the references is to Diplomatarium Islandicum, volume 3 p. 29 ( http://baekur.is/en/bok/000197700/3/63/Diplomatarium_Islandicum___Bindi_3_Bls_63 ) where it looks to be a listing of Norwegian kings, recorded circa 1312
There, he's recorded as "Olaf[r] hinn kyri," which I suspect would make for a more 14th c. Norse name -- Ænghill hinn kyri.

With that said Óláfr (h)inn kyrri lived ca. 1050 to 1093, so a normalised Old Norse form would be within 500 years of Ænghill, so Ænghill inn kyrri should be registerable.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 01:07:44
All right, let's see if I can get this documentation into a form suitable for the XLoI.

First principle, from Laurel: "We remind submissions heralds that failure to adequately summarize the documentation is grounds for pending or returning a name." Meaning that just listing works or even websites consulted is insufficient; you have to say what was found in which.

Second principle, purely from my observation: I assume all those repetitions of "On October 31, 2016" mean "Viewed October ...". While giving that fact is exceedingly wise when citing a URL for a thesis, dissertation, or even research paper, this may be the first time I've ever seen it on OSCAR, perhaps because the sorts of sites we cite tend to stay up without significant alteration for very long periods. And I, at least, when using something I think more likely to be transient (e.g., Pinterest pins) make and post a screengrab with the implication "Viewed on or right before the day I made this post".

Third point: http://heraldry.sca.org/admin.html, our Administrative Handbook, has in its Appendix H a list of "Sources That Do Not Require Photocopies to Laurel" with approved short-reference forms. Among these, fortunately for submitter, is "[Lind Personbinamn] Lind, E. H. Norsk-Isländska Personbinamn Från Medeltiden Samlade Ock Utgivna Med Förklaringar". Therefore, that reference can be truncated in the citation. Incidentally, we do not routinely give birth and death dates of authors--and I know of no academic citation style that recommends it, but am more than willing to be educated.

If Lind were NOT among the App. H sources, a full citation of author, title, and publication date would be required with a scan of at least the title page and the relevant data page.

So, in OSCAR format:

Ænghill - Lind Personbinamn, col. 234-5 s.n. Engill, 1312.*

inn kyrri - Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L Uckelman), "Viking bynames found in the Landnámabók.", http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/norse/vikbynames.html as 'quiet, gentle'.

Confirmed by Jack Garrett, "Vikings of Bjornstad Old Norse Dictionary", http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Old_Norse_Dictionary_E2N.shtm, R.G. Arthur, "English-Old Norse Dictionary", http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/language/English-Old_Norse.pdf, s.v. "quiet" in each case, and Judith Pfaff, "Nordic Names", https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Kyrri. **
---------------------------------
* Frankly, I'm not sure whether I'm cutting too much or too little on this one; Mistress ffride will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure. But the point is to say a) you're talking about <Ænghill> and b) it's found in that particular Lind work under <Engill>, with whatever additional data makes re-finding it easier for somebody checking up on you, no more and no less. [Later: Apparently "1312" was a date of occurrence, which should always be included.]

** For greater credibility, I'd leave out Garrett, who says explicitly "This is a work of transcription and conversion, not scholarship. As a result, this dictionary should NOT be relied upon as unerringly accurate, and should only be used as an aid for further research". And Pfaff looks like a superior sort of baby-name book, citing modern sources for a modern Scandinavian name that derives from Old Norse but not necessarily in the form currently used, so I'd drop her, too. Since Arthur shows publication in Ontario, not by York U., "York University" is best omitted from the citation. That it hosts his work is adequately shown by the URL.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 01:12:02
Very well, she got here BEFORE I did. Looking over her version, I'll stand behind my principles but please copy her superior implementation.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 01:21:11
Note further that her citation is accurately to "Lind", which is about given names. Lind Personbinamn, in the head matter, is on 'person bynames'.

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-02-08 01:22:35
I must be a time-traveler. Only possible explanation. :)

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:36:24
Surname docs check out. It's also in Geirr Bassi on p.25. No conflicts found. Don't have access to Lind.

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 00:08:35
This is perhaps

Azure, on a chevron enhanced argent three lotus flowers affronty purpure seeded argent.

Of course that's using "seeded" loosely in at least two ways.

First, an open lotus blossum displays at its center not exactly seeds but a carpellary receptacle surrounded by stamens (according to http://www.gardenguides.com/113699-parts-lotus-flower.html, "Flower Core" paragraph), first image below from https://adventurousalfred.wordpress.com/category/indonesia/bali/, with the receptacle eventually becoming a seed pod, second image from http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Stamens-and-Seed-Pod-of-a-Lotus-Flower-Posters_i10816505_.htm. However, seeded is how we regularly blazon flower centers.

Second, there is no internal detailing whatever here, not like that in the stylized version at http://mistholme.com/dictionary/lotus/ nor anything like the photos I've attached. It's tempting to declare these lotus flowers voided and thus illegal.

More important, I'm not sure I'd ever have come to the offered blazon from this emblazon. It's one thing to disguise the ubiquitous lions and eagles by, say, tincturing them checky, but quite another to disguise lotus blossoms to this extent.

Also, a charged chevron, even an enhanced one, should be thick enough for much larger blossoms, with more space allotted to the flowers than to the spaces between them. A side effect--like most improvements to heraldic style--would be to increase identifiability.

1: Image 1 2: Image 2

Brian O'hUilliam (Stable Crane) at 2017-02-08 14:26:51
The chevron seems to begin at the fess line. Is this too high to even be enhanced? I agree that the chevron should be thicker, though that may not be enough to return. The issues pointed out by Gerard concerning the seeding of the lotuses would be enough for redraw, I think.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 20:55:55
I would think it would have to rise up from about the fess line to be considered enhanced.

But see also my reply to myself under Thomas de Groet's comment below.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 21:17:17
Further on placement.

In The Church Heraldry of Norfolk (A.H. Goose and Company, 1887) one defaced coat is blazoned "A chevron enhanced" with a note that it might actually have been "Two chevrons". Image below from my Google search on "a chevron enhanced. From this we can infer where a 19th-c. scholar would expect to find our ordinary.

1: Image 1

Thomas de Groet at 2017-02-08 19:26:55
This chevron is way too high. It would get returned because of placement. It should straddle the fess line equally.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 20:46:37
Not necessarily, if we accept my reblazon rather than assuming the submitted blazon will be retained. (See my posts above.)

We've registered a dozen chevrons enhanced over the years, though none in the OSCAR era; though the phrase has been used in illustrated LoIs, for various reasons it has always evaporated upon contact with Laurel and Wreath.

(Extremely instructive for other cases, though not for this one, is the device of Katherine atte Morhouse, image below from http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=6881 for Katharine atte Moure. It was registered on http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/09/08-09lar.html to Katharine of Lions Gate, holding name, as Gules, on a chevron argent five lozenges throughout gules and in base a goose regardant argent with the note that "period armory would routinely displace a chevron slightly so that a large charge could fit under it.")

1: Image 1

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 21:09:15
I failed to notice until now that in every one of those dozen registered cases there is a charge group below the chevron, which could all presumably be reblazoned on the model of Katherine atte Morhouse above, whose chevron almost touches the top of her shield.

Which means we have never registered a chevron enhanced by itself. We do have Parker's testimony s.v. Chevron of the arms of Carlyon, Gules, a chevron enhanced argent but no date (of course) and no illustration.

Brigida von Muenchen (Purple Falcon) at 2017-02-19 13:56:00
And the PicDic version of a lotus affronty

1: Image 1

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:39:15
There's no reason here for the chevron to be above its default position on the field. These don't look very much like the lotus flower shown in the PicDic. Purple Falcon has provided an example of what they should look like. No conflicts found. My prejudice is for chevrons with acute or right angles like the example in #2 below, but this one with an obtuse angle is certainly registerable and has period examples. If it were drawn wider, the flowers could be larger.


2: Augustin Haffner -New Device

OSCAR finds the name registered exactly as it appears in November of 2016, via Ansteorra.

Per chevron azure and sable, a chevron argent and overall a tree blasted and eradicated Or

Device Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 02:00:26
Consider Magdelena von Freiberg's device, Jan 2009, Per chevron azure and sable, a chevron argent between two bezants and a tree blasted and eradicated Or.

http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#A5C2, "Comparing Charge Groups", tells us, "a secondary charge group should be compared to a secondary charge group only, ... and an overall charge group should be compared to an overall charge group only." So I believe we have a DC for the addition of the overall charge group here and another for the removal of Magdelena's secondary charge group, bringing them minimally clear of each other, regardless of the identity of this overall charge with half of Magdelena's secondary group.

For convenience, I append Magdelena's emblazon from http://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=145&id=8159.

1: Image 1

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:41:27
Would like to see the tree branches filling their space a little more fully. Nothing found closer than Magdelena von Freiberg.


3: Magnus Gunderson -New Name & New Device

Please consider the following possible conflicts identified by OSCAR (many will not be conflicts): Magnus Andersson(3/2014)

Per bend sinister vert and Or, a bee and a drakkar counterchanged.

Submitter desires a masculine name.
No major changes.
Sound most important.

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gourney

Magnus Dobson, male, married 1577, England

"England Marriages, 1538-1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N26L-8YB : 10 December 2014), Magnus Dobson and Hellyne Pettye, 27 Jan 1577

Batch no. M06189-2

Bartholomew Gunderson

"England Marriages, 1538-1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ8F-Y3D : 10 December 2014), Bartholomew Gunderson and Jane Alborne, 21 Sep 1628

Batch no. M01722-1

Conflict check : Magnus Gunnarsson. This name, registered in November of 2009 (via Ansteorra), was changed to Magnús rauðkinn Haraldsson in July of 2015 (via Artemisia). (http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_np.cgi?p=magnus+gunnarsson&b=broad&c=case-insensitive&l=500&s=name+only&d =modern&g=disabled&a=disabled)

Submitted through the Barony of Northkeep

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gournney

Name Comments:

ffride wlffsdotter at 2017-02-08 00:51:00
As awesome as the submitted name is, for a late-period English name that looks Scandinavian, just in case it is what the submitter wants, there is...

DMNES sn. Magnus
(http://dmnes.org/name/Magnus)
magnus (nom), 1500, Iceland
Magnus (nom), 1351, Latin, Sweden

Lind col. 404 sn. Gunnar
Gunder, nominative, Diplomatarium Norvegicum 1446
Gunders, genitive, Diplomatarium Norvegicum 1497
Gwnder[s], genitive, Diplomatarium Norvegicum 1498

Looking in Diplomatarium Norvegicum itself, gets me:
Arne Gundersson, 1497 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=990&s=n&str=Gunders%)
Eriker Gwnderson, 1498 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=3297&s=n&str=Gwnders%)

Along with the following examples with a single -s-:
Amwndh Gwnderson, 1514 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=3350&s=n&str=Gwnderson)
Biorn Gunderson, 1516 (http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst_2016.prl?b=2177&s=n&str=Gunderson)

So, a Norwegian "Gunderson" with a single -s- is also plausible. It would be within the Scandinavian language group, so could be combined with the other mentions of Magnus.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 01:37:41
<Magnus Gunderson> does not conflict with OSCAR's unusually good guess, <Magnus Andersson>. Under http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#PN3C2, "Substantial Change to One Syllable", difference of the vowel and one consonant cluster is required. G ≠ 0 and U ≠ A in any plausible pronunciation, and they constitute the required two letters in spelling.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:42:16
Docs check out. If the potentially conflicting name has been changed, then there can be no conflict with it. No other conflicts found.

Device Comments:

Shannon inghaen Bhriain uí Dhuilleaín at 2017-02-18 05:37:55
No conflicts found.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:42:52
The PicDic entry for galley says that the default posture is sail furled and oars in action, so this drakkar will have to be specified as having its sail set. No conflicts found.


4: Wyldewode, Canton of -Resub Badge

OSCAR finds the name on the Ansteorra LoI of October 13, 2016 as submitted.

Or, three crests braced vert, embattled per base azure

Submitted through the Incipient Canton of Wyldewode

Consulting herald Geoffrey de Gourney

Badge originally submitted 4/16 http://oscar.sca.org/kingdom/kingloi.php?kingdom=8&loi=3757 was Azure, a savage's head couped affronty Or, which was returned for conflict with the arms of Stockholm.

Badge Comments:

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-08 01:46:56
This is

Or, three chevronels braced vert, a base embattled azure

These are about as few and as shallow embattlements as I would expect to pass even with an artists' note.

Shannon inghaen Bhriain uí Dhuilleaín at 2017-02-18 05:49:35
Clear of Gwenllian verch Rhys de Goer

The following device associated with this name was registered in July of 2009 (via Gleann Abhann): Argent, three chevronels braced throughout vert and a base wavy azure.

One DC for the field tincture (SENA A.5.G.1.a), a second for wavy v. embattled base (SENA A.5.G.4 and Appendix M).

That was the closest registration I found.

Tostig Logiosophia at 2017-02-26 15:01:47
Also seems 2 DC clear versus "Or, three chevronels vert, overall two towers in fess gules." (Shire of Cloondara, Badge, LoAR Jun 2016) for removal of the overall and addition of the secondary charges.

Michael Gerard Curtememoire at 2017-02-27 00:33:19
I'd expect at least a DC for the difference between chevronels and chevronels braced.

Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor) at 2017-02-25 11:44:03
Agree with Michael's reblazon. The width and height of the embattlements should be equal. No conflicts found.


Thank you for your commentary.

Vigdís & Rebekah


OSCAR counts 2 Names, 3 Devices and 1 Badge. There are a total of 6 items submitted on this letter.

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